Post-Game Talk: Devils @ Rangers

[haveandare]

What is our identity? What is our system? I can't answer either of those questions after 3 years of Quinn.

I think “what is our system” is a tough question generally. If someone doesn’t deeply understand the X’s and O’s of the game at this level - and I admittedly don’t - any talk about defining any teams system is going to be hard to nail down in a meaningful way.

Having said that, yeah it’s hard to describe generally the way they want to play. I’d think it’s quick transitions out of the D zone and then focusing on forcing lateral movement in the o-zone. But they’re not executing it well at all recently. They were doing it pretty well at the start of the season and just not getting luck but it’s gotten worse since then for sure

 

[Edge]

I'm beginning to think that we should have expected more of this because this is still a very young team that's developing and the thing that more often than not happens with building kind of from scratch is you take a step forward and then you take two steps back and that's a process you (hopefully) eventually work your way out of over a period of time.

Zibanejad is way off right now and IMO Strome doesn't work so well without Panarin---Kakko seems the best player on that line right now and with Chytil out--that center position is just a mess right now. You're not going to win much if that position is kind of screwed.

To your first point, yes. And unfortunately this is one of those board things that you can see coming, but can’t prevent. So here we are.

For this team’s flaws, I also think that if we swap last year’s Zibanejad for this year’s model, we probably have a winning record. I think without changing any other components of the roster, it probably masks things enough (as it did last season) to keep them a little less heavy.

As for the Rangers, I think right now their preference is to get Panarin, Miller and Chytil back before making any changes. Assuming they can last that long, you’re probably looking at a situation where Quinn has until the mid-point or 3/4 mark.

Right now it would probably take a sustained funk, and regression from younger players to speed things up.

 

[Allan92]

Boudreau or Gallant please

I don't care if they're 'vet' coaches or 'kids' coaches....anyone who takes the job will know what roster they have to work with and a good coach will adjust based on this roster and the two guys I mentioned are two of the best

We are playing like we don't have a head coach as it is, only the D have any kind of cohesion or recognisable system

 

[Edge]

I give this Board 12 months with Gallant, 18 tops, before it makes the AV dialogues seem like a Hallmark card.

And honestly, I could almost write the scripts for some of our more dramatic responses. It’s honestly that clear.

 

[Sdevils42]

And quoting you Buch89, is my perfect chance to say what
"I feel" (right, wrong or indifferent).

Offensively this team has looked like crap "since Tony".
Losing Chytil and now Panarin only multiplies the look.
Losing to Boston 2x, is one thing. Losing to a depleted and "rusty" team with far less talent than we have is another.
Pathetic. I'm not on a ledge, just angry and very disappointed.
If the team is feeling like I/we(?) are, they will win the next 10.
Unfortunately, they probably arent and will not.

When you're BEST players, night in and night out that are most noticeable (3rd and 4th lines)......well, therein lies the problem. Yes, I am the master of the obvious.

I also still feel, as an organization......they screwed themselves by ridding themselves of their "headache". This team, is quite a bit worse without him. Right now. I dare them to prove me wrong, and prove they are BETTER w/o him. The cut, is a very deep cut.

I take mild exception to the "far less talent" statement. And I mean that in the broader sense. Obv both teams were missing big pieces, Devils have been without Nico for the entire year. But I don't think man for man the Rangers at full strength are man for man much more talented than the Devils. Their players get a bigger spotlight etc but I don't see it outside of Panarin (who I like) who doesn't play a consistent enough game.

 

[TUQ]

For me it all starts and ends with the play of Mika Zibanejad. He not only did not confirm his elite status we were all marking him with last season, he din not only regress, he fell to a hole with no visible end. One has to wonder if his play is only affected by the residual effects of COVID or he just failed to prepare for the season properly. Because when someone is not in a good condition, he tends to preserve energy, he does not go 100% all the time and on this level it shows. Maybe I am wrong and this is just a huge slump of his. For this eason I would be very careful with giving Mika his retirement deal here.

And when your first center suddenly turns into fourt line level center, your first line usualy goes with him. And where you have two teenagers nad Ryan Strome on the second line, you can't blame coach for offensive woes of your team, you just can't.

If Mika really has conditioning problems, I do not see an easy way out of it. This usually is not fixable during the season.

All of this are just my assumptions based on observation and I hope I am wrong and we come out of this funk soon and we come out stronger, I just don't see the light on the end of the tunnel yet though.

 

[Raspewtin]

if we have to make a change next game for god's sake please put Reunanen in instead of whatever shitsack journeyman is next in line. I can't stomach watching another game with Bitetto-Hajek-Smith. I just can't.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I give this Board 12 months with Gallant, 18 tops, before it makes the AV dialogues seem like a Hallmark card.

And honestly, I could almost write the scripts for some of our more dramatic responses. It’s honestly that clear.

Who cares what the board's reaction will be? People just want to see either wins or encouraging improvement from the young core--ideally both. I maintained through the offseason that 7th in the division was much more likely for us than 4th, but the latter element has been sporadic and minimal at best. It's discouraging. You don't have to believe a new coach will solve all of the problems to hope that the problems are viewed with the same urgency by management as by the fans.

To your point, they're obviously taking a more sober and patient long-view and it's wise not to jump to early--see Edmonton and Buffalo. Once you set the coaching carousel in motion it can be hard to stop. That said, something's gotta give soon. As you've pointed out, Zibanejad scoring even like 2 years ago would make a huge difference in our record. As would the health of certain players. OTOH, you've rightly pointed out that those elements (slumps and injuries) have exposed problems more than they've created them. So, what's the plan?

 

[Anthony5967]

if we have to make a change next game for god's sake please put Reunanen in instead of whatever shitsack journeyman is next in line. I can't stomach watching another game with Bitetto-Hajek-Smith. I just can't.

I honestly do not get the Hajek hate. He has been much better since he came back here. Bitetto and Smith blow. They should be putting them both in if all six d ever go down. Johnson should be cut. I'd rather see what Hajek can do and another kid. This season is over anyway.

 

[DuneGoon84]

Quinn isn't fired yet? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

if we have to make a change next game for god's sake please put Reunanen in instead of whatever shitsack journeyman is next in line. I can't stomach watching another game with Bitetto-Hajek-Smith. I just can't.

Can he dump the puck yet? Need to learn that first

 

[Edge]

Who cares what the board's reaction will be? People just want to see either wins or encouraging improvement from the young core--ideally both. I maintained through the offseason that 7th in the division was much more likely for us than 4th, but the latter element has been sporadic and minimal at best. It's discouraging. You don't have to believe a new coach will solve all of the problems to hope that the problems are viewed with the same urgency by management as by the fans.

To your point, they're obviously taking a more sober and patient long-view and it's wise not to jump to early--see Edmonton and Buffalo. Once you set the coaching carousel in motion it can be hard to stop. That said, something's gotta give soon. As you've pointed out, Zibanejad scoring even like 2 years ago would make a huge difference in our record. As would the health of certain players. OTOH, you've rightly pointed out that those elements (slumps and injuries) have exposed problems more than they've created them. So, what's the plan?

The reason I am mentioning the board, is because the board is where the concept was mentioned. So, if people on the board think Gallant will be an improvement, it’s worth mentioning that it probably will go south faster than those people believe. It’s separate from what the team thinks. Likewise, if the concept originated with Brooks, the response might center on how Brooks would view him in a year or two n

Right now, I think the plan is to keep pushing for growth from kids like Fox, Kakko, Chytil, Miller, Shesterkin, Lafreniere, etc.

And I say this knowing that certain members of the board are going to hate this answer, but I think this season and what we’re seeing right now is still very much viewed as a transition year for this team. Not only does is seem that the view internally, it’s also the feedback I’ve gotten from those outside the organization as well.

The general consensus from those in and around the league is that the Rangers are a young team who are being done in by the play of their veterans, weird luck and injuries right now.

And I’m not asking people on here to necessarily agree with that, I’m just letting you know that the views expressed here and are not inherently universal. So when people ask, “why the hell aren’t they doing something?” that’s why.

I think the plan has always been to keep pushing the young talent forward, and figuring out which older players are going to be here long-term.

To the former point, there’s not that many pointed fingers around the organization, or seemingly around the league.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Still pissed off about this loss.

Obvious that a new low has been hit.

Fire up the lottery machine

 

[haveandare]

I give this Board 12 months with Gallant, 18 tops, before it makes the AV dialogues seem like a Hallmark card.

And honestly, I could almost write the scripts for some of our more dramatic responses. It’s honestly that clear.

I honestly don’t know much about him. What’s the line on him? Or what do you expect would be the complaints for discussions sake?

His teams seem to do pretty well but he wears our welcomes fast.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I give this Board 12 months with Gallant, 18 tops, before it makes the AV dialogues seem like a Hallmark card.

And honestly, I could almost write the scripts for some of our more dramatic responses. It’s honestly that clear.

Not that I am giving up on Quinn just yet, if the rangers were to replace him mid-season, who would you like to see behind the bench?

 

[offdacrossbar]

whats it ? i mean, what did he do that was sooooo terrible ? really ?

his past transgressions were not "race" related according to larry. they were directed at a Caucasian person. he isnt a racist. again, per larry- not his biggest supporter btw.

yet hes labeled as such. a covid denier ? YIKES !! he explained that as well. hes a covid realist. like many others. an insurrectionist ? its the SERIOUSNESS of the accusation rather than the proof that matters most. to be accused of something is to be judge , jury and executioner. game, set, match.

racist and insurrectionist must mean hes that way in the locker room.... if he holds those beliefs (which by all accounts he does not) he must be like that on the ice and in the room right ? nah. disconnect here. 1 + 1 = 10 kinda thing.

racist= hates miller. nope. by all accounts, they were fine.
insurrectionist = selfish penalty taker and bad example for the kids. nope.
the miller stuff ? fabricated trash to ad to the false narrative. again, larry explained that too.

the puck thing ? larry said and others, didnt happen. 180 degree misrepresentation.

tony was his own worst enemy. his politics cost him his job. his mouth and his politics and his inability to keep his beliefs to himself. he admitted that. he never said anything different. his temper and his mouth cost him. he yells at refs and coaches. hes a hot head.

there have been others similar that have had long careers in he NHL. mark messier was NOT a saint.

hes opinionated and holds strong convictions about the path this state/country is on. ya know what, so do i.

but to ignore the momentum behind his lynching is pure denial. he was a target for cancellation. pure and simple. its the thing now. cancel those who disagree and who speak out. the winds of "change" are a blowing and its scary AF.

we eliminated a guy who's politics and personality didn't mesh with the NYC culture but at the same time was "a great teammate and a good (misunderstood) person in the locker room. well liked.

however, at the same time, we also removed a large part of the offensive production from the blue line. an injury to adam fox and then what ? nils lundkvist yada yada yada ..... talent wins games dave.

the guy was on a cheap contract for 2 years. last season he was the BEST value contract in the league production/cost wise. now hes gone. void created.

david quinn made an example out of him- he slammed the door in a blow out game that meant nothing. the result, he sat for 2 games as an example of quinns iron fist discipline (that is inconsistent and variable depending on effort and intentions...) and that was the WRONG thing to do with a guy like deangelo. if quinn is such a good teacher and understands young men so well, why didnt he understand how to handle deangelo ?

the team was awful right outa the gate and quinn used deangelo as a smoke screen to hide his own weaknesses and blame tony to deflect blame. this was always personal with him and tony. always.

read the larry article and understand want marc staal said. process it. this isnt the guy that is being persecuted in he media. this isnt the real deangelo. this isnt a guy who kills puppies. or beats his wife.

staal didnt mince words. TONY IS A SOLID GUY.

hes a loud mouth jersey guy who said something to his teammate in the heat of the moment and was the recipient of the punch- my understanding was he didnt deliver the blow to Georgie, other way around.

his rope around his neck was very short- his fault (kinda but others share the blame), but not sure this was the end that served all interests the best.

meanwhile the team looks like ass. doesnt score goals and cant manage a PP but no more mouthy jersey guy. hmmm....

enjoy your season Dave. you got rid of your cancer. now the light is shining directly on you buddy.

 

[Peltz]

To your first point, yes. And unfortunately this is one of those board things that you can see coming, but can’t prevent. So here we are.

For this team’s flaws, I also think that if we swap last year’s Zibanejad for this year’s model, we probably have a winning record. I think without changing any other components of the roster, it probably masks things enough (as it did last season) to keep them a little less heavy.

No doubt. Zib was one of the best players in the league last year. And the margin of winning vs. losing in the NHL is often razor thin where individual performances can sometimes drag an otherwise pedestrian or even disfunctional team into winning territory on any given night.

Couple that with explosive play from Panarin and very good goaltending they got from Shesterkin in the latter half, and it really hid a lot of the flaws the team had. Flaws that have actually been rather well addressed on the defensive side of the game, and the lower end of the roster.

I just want to add, they really really miss Chytil. I think they have at least 2-3 more wins over this stretch if he were in the roster.

 

[Edge]

I honestly don’t know much about him. What’s the line on him? Or what do you expect would be the complaints for discussions sake?

His teams seem to do pretty well but he wears our welcomes fast.

Gallant is a players coach who guys respond to on a personal level. He’s not seen as a strategic mastermind, or a guy who adjusts his game plan as it gets figured out.

The rap on him is that eventually you can only be a cheerleader for so long before the strategic deficiencies and the “players policing themselves” approach results in diminishing returns and a disconnected locker room.

There is also the growing belief that Vegas’ success has less to do with Gallant than originally believed.

 

[Peltz]

whats it ? i mean, what did he do that was sooooo terrible ? really ?

his past transgressions were not "race" related according to larry. they were directed at a Caucasian person. he isnt a racist. again, per larry- not his biggest supporter btw.

yet hes labeled as such. a covid denier ? YIKES !! he explained that as well. hes a covid realist. like many others. an insurrectionist ? its the SERIOUSNESS of the accusation rather than the proof that matters most. to be accused of something is to be judge , jury and executioner. game, set, match.

racist and insurrectionist must mean hes that way in the locker room.... if he holds those beliefs (which by all accounts he does not) he must be like that on the ice and in the room right ? nah. disconnect here. 1 + 1 = 10 kinda thing.

racist= hates miller. nope. by all accounts, they were fine.
insurrectionist = selfish penalty taker and bad example for the kids. nope.
the miller stuff ? fabricated trash to ad to the false narrative. again, larry explained that too.

the puck thing ? larry said and others, didnt happen. 180 degree misrepresentation.

tony was his own worst enemy. his politics cost him his job. his mouth and his politics and his inability to keep his beliefs to himself. he admitted that. he never said anything different. his temper and his mouth cost him. he yells at refs and coaches. hes a hot head.

there have been others similar that have had long careers in he NHL. mark messier was NOT a saint.

hes opinionated and holds strong convictions about the path this state/country is on. ya know what, so do i.

but to ignore the momentum behind his lynching is pure denial. he was a target for cancellation. pure and simple. its the thing now. cancel those who disagree and who speak out. the winds of "change" are a blowing and its scary AF.

we eliminated a guy who's politics and personality didn't mesh with the NYC culture but at the same time was "a great teammate and a good (misunderstood) person in the locker room. well liked.

however, at the same time, we also removed a large part of the offensive production from the blue line. an injury to adam fox and then what ? nils lundkvist yada yada yada ..... talent wins games dave.

the guy was on a cheap contract for 2 years. last season he was the BEST value contract in the league production/cost wise. now hes gone. void created.

david quinn made an example out of him- he slammed the door in a blow out game that meant nothing. the result, he sat for 2 games as an example of quinns iron fist discipline (that is inconsistent and variable depending on effort and intentions...) and that was the WRONG thing to do with a guy like deangelo. if quinn is such a good teacher and understands young men so well, why didnt he understand how to handle deangelo ?

the team was awful right outa the gate and quinn used deangelo as a smoke screen to hide his own weaknesses and blame tony to deflect blame. this was always personal with him and tony. always.

read the larry article and understand want marc staal said. process it. this isnt the guy that is being persecuted in he media. this isnt the real deangelo. this isnt a guy who kills puppies. or beats his wife.

staal didnt mince words. TONY IS A SOLID GUY.

hes a loud mouth jersey guy who said something to his teammate in the heat of the moment and was the recipient of the punch- my understanding was he didnt deliver the blow to Georgie, other way around.

his rope around his neck was very short- his fault (kinda but others share the blame), but not sure this was the end that served all interests the best.

meanwhile the team looks like ass. doesnt score goals and cant manage a PP but no more mouthy jersey guy. hmmm....

enjoy your season Dave. you got rid of your cancer. now the light is shining directly on you buddy.

We don't know what went on in that locker room. This is all baseless speculation. Staal wasn't there either.

 

[Edge]

Not that I am giving up on Quinn just yet, if the rangers were to replace him mid-season, who would you like to see behind the bench?

If they did, it’s probably Martin on an interim-basis.

I think Sullivan is the organization’s first choice, if he becomes available.

If I could pick anyone, regardless of availability, I think Quenneville would be a great fit.

 

[Peltz]

For me it all starts and ends with the play of Mika Zibanejad. He not only did not confirm his elite status we were all marking him with last season, he din not only regress, he fell to a hole with no visible end. One has to wonder if his play is only affected by the residual effects of COVID or he just failed to prepare for the season properly. Because when someone is not in a good condition, he tends to preserve energy, he does not go 100% all the time and on this level it shows. Maybe I am wrong and this is just a huge slump of his. For this eason I would be very careful with giving Mika his retirement deal here.

And when your first center suddenly turns into fourt line level center, your first line usualy goes with him. And where you have two teenagers nad Ryan Strome on the second line, you can't blame coach for offensive woes of your team, you just can't.

If Mika really has conditioning problems, I do not see an easy way out of it. This usually is not fixable during the season.

All of this are just my assumptions based on observation and I hope I am wrong and we come out of this funk soon and we come out stronger, I just don't see the light on the end of the tunnel yet though.

The only way out is to bench him and have him work on his conditioning for a week or two I guess.

 

[Peltz]

If they did, it’s probably Martin on an interim-basis.

I think Sullivan is the organization’s first choice, if he becomes available.

If I could pick anyone, regardless of availability, I think Quenneville would be a great fit.

Sullivan would be pretty amazing honestly. I always liked him.

 

[CupSeeker]

The game is tied. You have 5 defenseman, three of them are Bitito, Smith and Hajek.

Suddenly the Devils double their output.

Effort is a factor. Not denying that.

But that’s not a defense that inspires much confidence to stay tied.

Hajek is playing pretty well; he's not an issue at this point. Bitetto is a little hit or miss and Smith is just not good; he tries though.

 

[offdacrossbar]

We don't know what went on in that locker room. This is all baseless speculation. Staal wasn't there either.

staal was his partner for 2 seasons.

you dont think he has an informed opinion as to the kids character ?

i mean, many believed what faceless internet weasels wrote sitting in their basement as fact not that long ago.

 

[offdacrossbar]

is there a difference between enablers and excuse makers ?

this team is awful. this is quinns team. awful. check the standings

at what point does quinn bear responsibility ? injuries, rookies, dissension .... excuses.

is it ever david quinns job to produce wins rather than choir boys and men with good intentions ?