Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[forceten]

so just to be clear, you're saying you wouldn't trade someone like Gritsyuk in a deal for Brady Tkachuk because we don't have a ton of forward prospects.......?

Yes.

Right now we're playing 3 guys we don't really want on the team -- Tatar, Dowling, and Legare.

We know we have gaps in synergy across the top 9. We need someone for Jack/Bratt, we need something to amp up the third line.

Who do we have coming in that is Devils property right now? Sure, you can say we can go to free agency but we're up against the cap as it is. It's not always so simple. We picked up Tatar probably because he was cheap not because he was effective.

We simply can't empty a bucket that's already seriously depleted IMO.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yes.

Right now we're playing 3 guys we don't really want on the team -- Tatar, Dowling, and Legare.

We know we have gaps in synergy across the top 9. We need someone for Jack/Bratt, we need something to amp up the third line.

Who do we have coming in that is Devils property right now? Sure, you can say we can go to free agency but we're up against the cap as it is. It's not always so simple. We picked up Tatar probably because he was cheap not because he was effective.

We simply can't empty a bucket that's already seriously depleted IMO.

bro I really couldnt give a shit about 3rd and 4th liners. You can find those guys every offseason quite easily. If we COULD REALISTICALLY GET Tkachuk, I don't see how you would say "nah, I need to keep Arseni Gritsyuk". That is insane talk to me.

 

[forceten]

bro I really couldnt give a shit about 3rd and 4th liners. You can find those guys every offseason quite easily. If we COULD REALISTICALLY GET Tkachuk, I don't see how you would say "nah, I need to keep Arseni Gritsyuk". That is insane talk to me.

/shrug

"bro" you can disagree and be respectful instead of being an asshole. Your opinion is yours and you have the same right to express it as I do, but being a dick just makes you look lesser here.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

/shrug

"bro" you can disagree and be respectful instead of being an asshole. Your opinion is yours and you have the same right to express it as I do, but being a dick just makes you look lesser here.

I mean, if an insane opinion is presented, it should be called out as such. I'm not being an asshole? This is a message board. Thats how this works. If you post something that is kind of insane, it will be called out as such.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I also wouldn’t trade gritty for brady

But I just don’t want Brady

 

[forceten]

I mean, if an insane opinion is presented, it should be called out as such. I'm not being an asshole? This is a message board. Thats how this works. If you post something that is kind of insane, it will be called out as such.

No, it's not "how it works". Conduct yourself as you'd conduct yourself in person. At least, that's the mature way to behave - and you're old enough to not act like a child.

Plus, you're doing the typical "message board warrior" intellectual cowardice by constructing an argument the other poster did not make and try to bolster your counterargument by arguing that. I did not say I particularly cared about lines 3 and 4. But in general, having capable top forwards. Whether line 1 or 2, or providing mobility in the top 9 -- Brady is a nice player, but may not mesh with Jack as an example. The Nico line looks solid. Having people to lace in and move around so that the top 9 AS A WHOLE is effective is a concern. Who is coming in? Let's say we trade away what little we have left... who comes in? You didn't address that, instead you use terms like "insane" and "bro" and defend your sophomoric behavior rather than have a discussion which is the actual point of a message board.

Whatever. Just grow up already.

 

[Hisch13r]

Yes.

Right now we're playing 3 guys we don't really want on the team -- Tatar, Dowling, and Legare.

We know we have gaps in synergy across the top 9. We need someone for Jack/Bratt, we need something to amp up the third line.

Who do we have coming in that is Devils property right now? Sure, you can say we can go to free agency but we're up against the cap as it is. It's not always so simple. We picked up Tatar probably because he was cheap not because he was effective.

We simply can't empty a bucket that's already seriously depleted IMO.

We definitely DO want Tatar on the team. He is both cheap AND effective.

I also wouldn’t trade gritty for brady

But I just don’t want Brady

I'd like Brady. I don't have an obsession with him like a lot of Devils fans do though.

 

[forceten]

We definitely DO want Tatar on the team. He is both cheap AND effective.



I'd like Brady. I don't have an obsession with him like a lot of Devils fans do though.

I'm not sure he will stay effective longer term, beyond this year (Tatar). He's cheap.

Brady is a good player. He's what he is though - a guy who hits and plays physical, is probably able to be relied upon to be about point a game, 30-35 goals. Power forward. He's not a superstar, he's not Matthew. Maybe he can be on a better team. I wouldn't turn him away, but wouldn't go out of my way for him either.

 

[My3Sons]

I mean, if an insane opinion is presented, it should be called out as such. I'm not being an asshole? This is a message board. Thats how this works. If you post something that is kind of insane, it will be called out as such.

I disagree. We are all Devils fans and civility is imprtant. What are you calling out? Something you consider an extreme opinion? Being cordial matters more than dunking on someone here as I see it. There is also a slippery slope. When does calling out the opinion become insulting?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

No, it's not "how it works". Conduct yourself as you'd conduct yourself in person. At least, that's the mature way to behave - and you're old enough to not act like a child.

Plus, you're doing the typical "message board warrior" intellectual cowardice by constructing an argument the other poster did not make and try to bolster your counterargument by arguing that. I did not say I particularly cared about lines 3 and 4. But in general, having capable top forwards. Whether line 1 or 2, or providing mobility in the top 9 -- Brady is a nice player, but may not mesh with Jack as an example. The Nico line looks solid. Having people to lace in and move around so that the top 9 AS A WHOLE is effective is a concern. Who is coming in? Let's say we trade away what little we have left... who comes in? You didn't address that, instead you use terms like "insane" and "bro" and defend your sophomoric behavior rather than have a discussion which is the actual point of a message board.

Whatever. Just grow up already.

you said you wouldnt trade Gritsyuk to get Brady Tkachuk. I think that that that is an absolutely absurd thing to say. I am sorry that you do not like that.

"who comes in" dude literally you can find 3rd/4th liners every offseason. Quite easily. Either via trade or relatively cheap in FA.

HAve a grand day!

 

[Normal Devil]

I would murder somebody for mccann

He'd be a good fit.

 

[dgibb10]

I don't want Brady Tkachuk unless he demands to come here after his NMC kicks in and we can fleece.

I don't see a stylistic need. I don't think he moves the needle for our PP or either of our top 2 lines (which have shown to be excellent with the 2 stars and a complimentary piece).

NJDs big focus needs to be on
A) finding a long term goalie option
B) filling out depth and complimentary pieces while avoiding any bad contracts

The core is built

4 star forwards
A quality dcore built with plenty of reenforcements coming.

 

[Saugus]

How do we even fit Tkachuk under the cap?

Talking about trading for him is great and all, but unless we’re somehow dumping Palat in a Trouba-like deal, we simply can’t afford him.

 

[Hisch13r]

How do we even fit Tkachuk under the cap?

Talking about trading for him is great and all, but unless we’re somehow dumping Palat in a Trouba-like deal, we simply can’t afford him.

In fantasy land a Nemec+Dougie for Brady deal makes the cap work and makes some sense to me. I think Brady would be fun but the smarter move is likely building around the big 4 with a shit ton of strong depth rather than adding another big money star

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I don't want Brady Tkachuk unless he demands to come here after his NMC kicks in and we can fleece.

I don't see a stylistic need. I don't think he moves the needle for our PP or either of our top 2 lines (which have shown to be excellent with the 2 stars and a complimentary piece).

NJDs big focus needs to be on
A) finding a long term goalie option
B) filling out depth and complimentary pieces while avoiding any bad contracts

The core is built

4 star forwards
A quality dcore built with plenty of reenforcements coming.

I am not saying we SHOULD be doing it.

My entire premise was that NOT doing it because of Arseni Gritsyuk or because we might not have enough 3rd liners in the organization is insane to me.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I’m not necessarily jones’ing for Brady, but I’d give up Gritty for him and not think twice about it.

 

[britdevil]

People wouldn't trade Gritsyuk for Tkachuk?

Lmfao, this board.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Timo was probably our last big money acquisition for a while. Palat and Dougie will need to be off the books to make any kind of splash once Luke gets his deal.

 

[Lou Bloom]

A lot of this is probably dependent on where the salary cap ends up next season. If the Cap hits on the higher end of the projections then the Devils could feasibly fit in Tkachuk by trading Mercer + Nemec and still have enough to re-sign Luke and Kovacevic and fill in some cheap depth. On the lower ends of the projections you're probably hoping for Palat to waive his NMC since that'll be only a $2M difference.

I don't necessarily think the Devils should be looking into trading for more stars but Brady Tkachuk would be an exception since he's locked into a really great contract for the next 3 seasons after this one and the Devils could make a trade around Mercer + Nemec that would both be hard to beat by other teams and also make financial sense since Mercer already makes $4M and Nemec would likely be due a sizeable raise after 2026 anyway.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't want Brady Tkachuk unless he demands to come here after his NMC kicks in and we can fleece.

I don't see a stylistic need. I don't think he moves the needle for our PP or either of our top 2 lines (which have shown to be excellent with the 2 stars and a complimentary piece).

NJDs big focus needs to be on
A) finding a long term goalie option
B) filling out depth and complimentary pieces while avoiding any bad contracts

The core is built

4 star forwards
A quality dcore built with plenty of reenforcements coming.

Interestingly Noesen has been so good on the PP, and the PP so good overall that I think you are right on this point.

Tkachuk on the top line could be a significant improvement over Palat though. Now I actually think Palat has been pretty good as a dirty work guy on that line, but he's not bringing much of anything in terms of pure production. I don't know if Tkachuk is as good in terms of dirty work, but I think he would thrive in terms of scoring goals on a line with Bratt and Hughes.

Much like Toffoli last year, what that line doesn't need is someone who can carry the puck, which would compensate for what I assume is a weakness for Tkachuk.

 

[Billdo]

People wouldn't trade Gritsyuk for Tkachuk?

Lmfao, this board.

I certainly would.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes.

Right now we're playing 3 guys we don't really want on the team -- Tatar, Dowling, and Legare.

We know we have gaps in synergy across the top 9. We need someone for Jack/Bratt, we need something to amp up the third line.

Who do we have coming in that is Devils property right now? Sure, you can say we can go to free agency but we're up against the cap as it is. It's not always so simple. We picked up Tatar probably because he was cheap not because he was effective.

We simply can't empty a bucket that's already seriously depleted IMO.

Wouldn't that be where Tkachuk most likely played?

Should be noted Tkachuk turned 25 in Sept, while Grit's turns 24 in spring. Brady is only a tad bit older.

People wouldn't trade Gritsyuk for Tkachuk?

Lmfao, this board.

I think it's more likely just person.

 

[AfroThunder396]

There were some people here previously saying that they wouldn’t trade Zetterlund for Meier and I thought that was insane.

I like Gritsyuk a lot and think he’s criminally underrated, but he’s not taking away from our depth because he’s not currently on the depth chart. He’s not in the NHL, he’s not in the AHL - so why are we talking about bringing in a guy to replace him?

And even if we were to trade a roster player for a top-6 forward, the guy we bring in is going to be slotting other players further down the lineup. Mercer/Palat out of the top-6 helps address some of these problems.

And if you need some 4th liners, those aren’t hard to find on the waiver wire or could be had for a 4th/5th. 4th liners are by definition replaceable.

The question is if Brady is that guy and if you can even do it logistically. Brady is u questionably a 1st line talent but I don’t think he’s *THAT* much better than Timo and is pretty significantly below Bratt. Given his age and term he’ll command a lot, and I don’t think even including Palat is enough to make it work cap wise. It would take some serious cap gymnastics to make it work.

 

[forceten]

I am not saying we SHOULD be doing it.

My entire premise was that NOT doing it because of Arseni Gritsyuk or because we might not have enough 3rd liners in the organization is insane to me.

Again - that wasn't the argument, but you continue to show your intellectual dishonesty by continuing to make up an argument to argue against.

 

[devilsblood]

Nemec had 42 points in 78 games his first two years in Utica. This season he has 3 points in 11 games. Something is clearly up with him this season, not sure if it's a legitimate regression or if he's still feeling the effects of that nasty hit in the offseason.

I would hate to pull the plug on him this early for a couple of reasons.

1.) He's 21.
2.) The embarrassment of riches on the backend will not last forever - the future of Hamilton and Kovacevic with this team is very much in doubt.
3.) The Jiricek deal - selling low on a high pick defenseman this early, especially one that lost his job in camp and isn't NHL-established, is not going to return the value you probably think it will.

I don't think he's untouchable and there's no harm in listening, but you better be damn sure that you're getting a major roster upgrade back that is both high-quality and long-term.

Well, in regards to the discussion just above, if it's Nemec for a Tkachuk type player then I wouldn't call that pulling the plug or selling low.

I also think if you trade Nemec, then Kova is basically a lock to be signed.

Hamilton's future is only in doubt if we are looking to trade him(his effectiveness is another question though).

Edit: As per Nemec's point total? It does appear he's not playing at the same level as last year, and I do think the injury could be part of that, but a D-man not putting up points on an offensively inept Utica team isn't a major red flag for me. I know Casey is doing so, but he is on PP1, and Casey is a much more offensively minded d-man.