Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[NJDevs26]

A replacement better than Bahl at killing penalties replaces Smith.... Nemec needs to replace Bahl's #4 spot.

Now you’re talking in riddles even more than usual…a replacement better than Bahl replacing Bahl and a replacement better than Smith replacing Smith is the goal.

 

[JimEIV]

Now you’re talking in riddles even more than usual…a replacement better than Bahl replacing Bahl and a replacement better than Smith replacing Smith is the goal.

Read it again... perhaps my wording is clumsy there...But that was directly related to penalty killers...

Smith was our #2 PKer
Bahl was our #4 PKer

Adding a better than Bahl PKer is necessary and it would replace Smith's minutes ..

The #4 Penalty killer will have to be Nemec...So in effect Nemec will be replacing Bahl's PK minutes.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Read it again... perhaps my wording is clumsy there...But that was directly related to penalty killers...

Smith was our #2 PKer
Bahl was our #4 PKer

Adding a better than Bahl PKer is necessary and it would replace Smith's minutes ..

The #4 Penalty killer will have to be Nemec...So in effect Nemec will be replacing Bahl's PK minutes.

Which would always have been the case whether Bahl left or not. If anything this opens up the door for us to bring in a better more experienced penalty killer than Bahl.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Letting Nemec PK is not that big a deal and we always needed someone to push Bahl out of the lineup

 

[Forge]

Not for nothing, but I do believe that people are somewhat underrating the role of our forwards in our PK. Obviously you still need the defenders to do their job, but I think we have some real quality pkers among the forward group which really helps.

 

[JimEIV]

Which would always have been the case whether Bahl left or not. If anything this opens up the door for us to bring in a better more experienced penalty killer than Bahl.

It's a shitty scenario for a 20 year old

Last year
Marino 2:58
Smith 2:47
Siegenthaler 1:55
Bahl 1:48

Hatakka average 1:41 in a short stint for #5 in average 12 games

DeSimone 1:20 in 11 games for #6

Cal Foote 1:11 for 7th 4 games
Colin Miller :53 8th 41 games
Nemec :51 seconds 9th....

We're taking the 9th choice from a horrific defense for the top 4 next year....think about it.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It's a shitty scenario for a 20 year old

Last year
Marino 2:58
Smith 2:47
Siegenthaler 1:55
Bahl 1:48

Hatakka average 1:41 in a short stint for #5 in average 12 games

DeSimone 1:20 in 11 games for #6

Cal Foote 1:11 for 7th 4 games
Colin Miller :53 8th 41 games
Nemec :51 seconds 9th....

We're taking the 9th choice from a horrific defense for the top 4 next year....think about it.

Again you haven’t provided a solution to it. The only solution would be Hamilton or Hughes playing instead or one of them coming out of the lineup. Or 7D. Simple math says that as long as there’s only 6D and 3 of them are Hamilton, Hughes, and Nemec, one of them is gonna have to play PK. Whether our 6D is Bahl or whoever we replace him with doesn’t change that.

None of the solutions have even the slightest bit to do with whether we traded Bahl or not

 

[JimEIV]

Again you haven’t provided a solution to it. The only solution would be Hamilton or Hughes playing instead or one of them coming out of the lineup. Or 7D. Simple math says that as long as there’s only 6D and 3 of them are Hamilton, Hughes, and Nemec, one of them is gonna have to play PK. Whether our 6D is Bahl or whoever we replace him with doesn’t change that.

None of the solutions have even the slightest bit to do with whether we traded Bahl or not

Of course Bahl would factor in the depth if was here.... dropping Bahl from 4 PK to 5 is improving the depth... getting rid of Bahl and bumping up a Nemec is weakening the depth....

And we did the same exact thing last year from the year year before...

2023 Graves was #2 and Smith was #4 and Bahl was #6 with :52 second Average.

we dropped our #2 PKer in Graves and replaced him with Smith and Bahl replaced Smith's 2023 minutes... Bahl shouldn't have been there this year but I think he was a better option this year than a 20 year old Nemec will be next year.

Edit: and there is no solution...it just sucks

 

[Cheddabombs]

 

[JimEIV]

Letting Nemec PK is not that big a deal and we always needed someone to push Bahl out of the lineup

Who was better last year Bahl or Siegenthaler?

 

[Forge]

Keep looking for a good sweet spot of player + pick to flip out of 10 for and I'm just not sure if it's there.

Like, 10 for 19 + Hague seems steep for a guy that I don't think has fully developed in the way that VGK has hoped (though to be fair, kind of hard for him to be put in a growth position given those in front of him).

Islanders just gave up 13 for Romanov, so I can't imagine that they would trade him + first for #10.

10 to 14 isn't enough for Ferraro from the Sharks.

Washington have interest in a swap that includes Fehervary?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Of course Bahl would factor in the depth if was here.... dropping Bahl from 4 to 5 is improving the depth... getting rid of Bahl and bumping up a Nemec is getting worse....

And we did the same exact thing last year from the year year before...

2023 Graves was #2 and Smith was #4 and Bahl was #6 with :52 second Average.

we dropped our #2 PKer in Graves and replaced him with Smith and Bahl replaced Smith's 2023 minutes... Bahl shouldn't have been there this year but I think he was a better option this year than a 20 year old Nemec will be next year.

Edit: and there is no solution...it just sucks

If we had brought someone else in to take Smith’s minutes Bahl would not be dropping from 4 to 5. He would be dropping from 4 to out of the lineup. And Nemec or Luke or Dougie would be taking his minutes.


Here’s the reality.

We don’t trade Bahl:
Bahl takes Smiths minutes
Nemec takes Bahl’s minutes

We trade Bahl:
New guy (hopefully better) takes Smith’s minutes
Nemec takes Bahl’s minutes


So in conclusion:
As long as whoever we bring in on LD is as good as Bahl was on the PK, our PK doesn’t get worse from the Bahl trade. And there is potential it could be better than if we had kept Bahl.

 

[Ripshot 43]

 

[JimEIV]

If we had brought someone else in to take Smith’s minutes Bahl would not be dropping from 4 to 5. He would be dropping from 4 to out of the lineup. And Nemec or Luke or Dougie would be taking his minutes.

This doesn't make sense at all ...If Bahl did in fact become the 7th Dman, 7th Dmen play plenty of games.

You are essentially saying that no depth is needed.

View attachment 885359

I'm honestly not seeing the problem?

Seriously it's summer and we're taking about how the defense might be put together or should be put together.... isn't that exactly what this thread is for?

What's negative about that?

I love talking about D chemistry and pairs.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This doesn't make sense at all ...If Bahl did in fact become the 7th Dman, 7th Dmen play plenty of games.

You are essentially saying that no depth is needed.

Oh it makes all the sense in the world.

No I’m not saying that in the slightest.

Was gonna say what I said was without injuries but even with injuries.
I don’t think they would be bringing someone in to push Bahl out of the lineup if he wasn’t traded. Bahl was unlikely to ever be the 7th dman.
Bahl’s been traded and now a top priority is to replace him. Chance we get someone better.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh it makes all the sense in the world.

No I’m not saying that in the slightest.

Was gonna say what I said was without injuries but even with injuries.
I don’t think they would be bringing someone in to push Bahl out of the lineup if he wasn’t traded. Bahl was unlikely to ever be the 7th dman.
Bahl’s been traded and now a top priority is to replace him. Chance we get someone better.

Well it was mentioned a top 4 and bottom pair Dmen were on the wish list.... that's two before Bahl was officially traded.

Fritz was always going to be looking for depth Dmen with or without Bahl...at least that's how I have interpreted it.

and if you are going to go out and get a Colin Miller type as a 7th why not put Bahl there this year.. he's cheap, big, has some snarl occasionally, can kill penalties and can play anywhere in the lineup in an emergency.

He would be extremely useful to this team next season.

 

[britdevil]

Markstrom is far more useful to NJ next season than Bahl.

Not close.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Well it was mentioned top 4 and bottom pair Dmen were on the wish list.... that's two before Bahl was officially traded.

Fritz was always going to be looking for depth Dmen with or without Bahl...at least that's how I have interpreted it.

and if you are going to go out and get a Colin Miller type as a 7th why not put Bahl there this year.. he's cheap, big, has some snarl occasionally, can kill penalties and can play anywhere in the lineup in an emergency.

He would be extremely useful to this team next season.

So you think Bahl was gonna be the 7th dman? I’m fine with that. If that’s the case our PK would still be the same with Nemec taking Bahl’s minutes at least until injuries. And possibly after depending on who gets injured.

But people don’t typically get this worked up or say our PK is much worse over someone they thought was gonna be the 7th dman getting traded. If Bahl was gonna be pushed to 7th D that makes me think he wasn’t that important to our lineup and was certainly replaceable.

 

[JimEIV]

Markstrom is far more useful to NJ next season than Bahl.

Not close.

Markstrom isn't worth a roster player and a 1st pick.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Markstrom is far more useful to NJ next season than Bahl.

Not close.

I think mine and Jim’s conversations are slowly walking to that with him essentially just saying Bahl was gonna be pushed to being a useful 7th D.

 

[britdevil]

Markstrom isn't worth a roster player and a 1st pick.

Roster player, whatever. Replaceable imo, and I like the player.

That first is years and years away from contributing. Nico is UFA in 4 years. I will keep banging this drum.

Now, can you argue that that 1st would be better directed at a different player/position? Ok, let's cook and give us an example.

 

[JimEIV]

So you think Bahl was gonna be the 7th dman? I’m fine with that. If that’s the case our PK would still be the same with Nemec taking Bahl’s minutes at least until injuries. And possibly after depending on who gets injured.

But people don’t typically get this worked up or say our PK is much worse over someone they thought was gonna be the 7th dman getting traded. If Bahl was gonna be pushed to 7th D that makes me think he wasn’t that important to our lineup and was certainly replaceable.

I don't know what was going to become of Bahl this season but trading him for a soon to be 35:year old goaltender is shortsighted.

I could see a possible scenario Siegenthaler is the odd man out ...and that's still a possibility with Bahl gone.

I think mine and Jim’s conversations are slowly walking to that with him essentially just saying Bahl was gonna be pushed to being a useful 7th D.

Nah...not even close. Siegenthaler and Bahl aren't that far apart to get there.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I don't know what was going to become of Bahl this season but trading for a soon to be 35:year old goaltender is shortsighted.

I could see a possible scenario Siegenthaler is the odd man out ...and that's still a possibility with Bahl gone.


Nah...not even close. Siegenthaler and Bahl aren't that far apart to get there

I’m open to a debate about the value given up for Markstrom but the first round pick is more valuable than Bahl right now and losing Bahl for next season is not a huge loss. As many have said, he is replaceable. Him being cheap and competent was his value but we have the cap space to potentially find a better player to replace him.

 

[britdevil]

I'm currently watching a 35, soon to be 36, year old goalie in the Stanley Cup finals.

I'm struggling to understand the mindset of prospect hoarding when NJ has a core that needs to be added to NOW, not five years from now.

Hell, if I'm Fitz and an NHL GM wants the 10th overall and they are offering up a veteran top 4 LD on draft day??? I'm making that deal.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Roster player, whatever. Replaceable imo, and I like the player.

That first is years and years away from contributing. Nico is UFA in 4 years. I will keep banging this drum.

Now, can you argue that that 1st would be better directed at a different player/position? Ok, let's cook and give us an example.

Ever since his draft day Ive felt Nico is a Devil for life. No evidence - just a hunch lol