Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Alex NJD]

Except that the Devils have to get Jack, Mercer, Timo and to lesser extent Nico, Bratt, Haula, Holtz (if he's here), etc. to buy in. These guys all have moments of defensive deficiency - and some much more than others. Watch how layered the Panthers coverage is. There's tremendous buy-in up and down the line up.

Meaning, it's about a group mentality. Right now, the Devils don't have it. Look at Meier. He was ok defensively before getting to the Devils. You'd think he could help improve the overall defense. But, look at what happened. Yes, I understand about the injuries. But, how do those injuries only affect defense?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1764694318374081013

Until they fix their core group, I don't think it's worth it for them to bring in defensive projects like Laine.

Absolutely need everyone to buy in.

I looked at all the Jfresh cards for our players back at the end of the season and the defensive drop offs were present all over the team between last year and this year. Nico, Jack, Toffoli, Mercer, Bastian all dropped off, some considerably. Lazar Palat and McLeod slightly improved while Haula considerably improved. Bratt stayed the same.

I do think system changes had something to do with it, at forward all of the grindy veteran guys managed to adapt while most of the younger and more offensive guys struggled. McLeod was the only exception. At defense Marino Siegs and Smith all regressed as well, I think that was more due to actual play than any system tho. Even with the system changes and mess there it doesn't change the fact that the entire team does need to buy in. Florida's d-corp has far outperformed what you'd assume on paper and that's definitely due to the entire team buying into their system

 

[JimEIV]

What's with this Messier infomercial

Wrong thread

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

What's with this Messier infomercial

Wrong thread

 

[NJDevs26]

Markstrom trade probably happens if they make it because they weren't making it with the peanut gallery they were trotting out nightly + Travis Green stays (LOL). Making the playoffs this year specifically would've been a bad thing even though I've been lambasted on this board for saying it and specifically said it when Lindy was behind the bench back in December/January. They need a big self reflection how to get back to the 22/23 roster that they got away from in 23/24. I'll give the injuries and losing McLeod as passes but everything from the speed getting slower as a team unit and trusting the goalies with a younger defense as a mistake by Fitz/management.

It sounds like the Markstrom trade was more nixed by Calgary than us tbh

 

[SKNJD9]

It sounds like the Markstrom trade was more nixed by Calgary than us tbh

It was ownership refusing to retain on cgy's end that nixed the deal. It got far along enough that Markstrom said his goodbyes to his teammates.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

When they finally had reliable play from Allen and Kahkonen they had Travis Green as an interim head coach, no Dougie Hamilton, no Tyler Toffoli, no Michael McLeod, an injured/scratched Jack Hughes, Marino and Siegenthaler out for extended stretches, no Colin Miller, no Nate Bastian, etc.

Nobody is refusing to see the deficiencies, but that team was a shell of itself going through the motions. They were giving consistent minutes to guys like Shane Bowers, Brian Halonen, Chris Tierney, and Nick DeSimone.

Good goaltending with a healthy lineup would have launched that team into the stratosphere.

Are you sure about that? The constant bitching about goaltending and needing a goalie next season says otherwise.

I'd much rather move the protected 25 first as the headliner in Markstrom deal than I would Gritsyuk given how close he is to potentially helping the team, but I wouldn't be overly upset if he was the key piece going back.

for Markstrom????? I'd be very pissed

 

[Forge]

for Markstrom????? I'd be very pissed

A guy like kuemper getting a first as a one year rental (negates markstroms age issue) and Calgary really not having to trade markstrom really locks it in as a likely first round pick in terms of trade value for me. It is what it is. Cost of doing business

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

A guy like kuemper getting a first as a one year rental (negates markstroms age issue) and Calgary really not having to trade markstrom really locks it in as a likely first round pick in terms of trade value for me. It is what it is. Cost of doing business

I don't particularly care what other teams did, that's terrible value and would be incredibly stupid

 

[Forge]

I don't particularly care what other teams did, that's terrible value and would be incredibly stupid

Continually rolling out guys like vanacek would also be stupid.

Pick the poison you want to die from

 

[Emperoreddy]

Get a good skater included, or swap firsts, or trade the 25 first.

We can't keep trotting out the dog shit we have been trotting out and expect to win and it's never going to get cheaper or easier to find goaltending beyond this year.

Probably should have just blown the doors off the Jets last year with an offer on Buck when we had the chance.

 

[SKNJD9]

Get a good skater included, or swap firsts, or trade the 25 first.

We can't keep trotting out the dog shit we have been trotting out and expect to win and it's never going to get cheaper or easier to find goaltending beyond this year.

Probably should have just blown the doors off the Jets last year with an offer on Buck when we had the chance.

Helle was never really available once he told the Jets he wanted to stay

 

[Alex NJD]

Top 3 centers in the final 4
Barkov - Bennett - Lundell
McDavid - Draisatl/RNH - Henrique (Ryan McLeod before his play really fell off in the playoffs, 30 point strong 2 way guy in the regular season
Hintz - Johnston - Seguin
Zib - Trocheck - Chytil when healthy (Zib in an imposter top line guy but the middle 6 Cs are very good)

Last year
Eichel - Karlsson - Roy

22
MacKinnon - Kadri - Newhook/Compher (Believe Newhook got benched/4th line in the playoffs)

21 and 20
Point - Cirelli - Gourde

All of these teams at worst had 30 point 2 way 3Cs. We don't have any prospects to fill this role and if we don't think Haula can be that guy at 3C then you absolutely have to bring someone in via FA/trade and it's definitely not going to be cheap.

 

[theoptimist]

The need for an additional 2/3C is obvious. Please get us Cirelli

 

[Better Call Sal]

From what has been mentioned by Leafs fans on Keefe's defensive structure and seeing the growth in their superstar players on that side of the puck, as well as taking weaker units talent wise and getting the most out of them, I fully expect things to improve on that front. It's actually the least of my concerns based on his track record coupled with what Lindy had in place.

 

[Zippy316]

Top 3 centers in the final 4
Barkov - Bennett - Lundell
McDavid - Draisatl/RNH - Henrique (Ryan McLeod before his play really fell off in the playoffs, 30 point strong 2 way guy in the regular season
Hintz - Johnston - Seguin
Zib - Trocheck - Chytil when healthy (Zib in an imposter top line guy but the middle 6 Cs are very good)

Last year
Eichel - Karlsson - Roy

22
MacKinnon - Kadri - Newhook/Compher (Believe Newhook got benched/4th line in the playoffs)

21 and 20
Point - Cirelli - Gourde

All of these teams at worst had 30 point 2 way 3Cs. We don't have any prospects to fill this role and if we don't think Haula can be that guy at 3C then you absolutely have to bring someone in via FA/trade and it's definitely not going to be cheap.

Hischier - Hughes - Haula - Lazar is more than good enough, in my opinion.

The only real issues are we don’t have backup options for any of them and if Hughes moves to wing, the center position gets real thin. Definitely need to try to add a middle-six forward who has the ability to play center (maybe Henrique) and possibly a guy in the bottom six to do the same (Trenin, Stenlund, etc.).

I do wonder if the Devils might float the idea of trying Mercer at center again. It hasn’t worked out well, but should definitely be explored again at some point before the Devils give up on it.

 

[tailfins]

Hischier - Hughes - Haula - Lazar is more than good enough, in my opinion.

The only real issue is we don’t have backup options for any of them. Definitely need to try to add a middle-six forward who has the ability to play center (maybe Henrique) and possibly a guy in the bottom six to do the same (Trenin, Stenlund, etc.).

I do wonder if the Devils might float the idea of trying Mercer at center again. It hasn’t worked out well, but should definitely be explored again at some point before the Devils give up on it.

Agree with your points.

They should absolutely keep trying Mercer at C. He'll be 23 next season. Center is a harder position to learn in the NHL (and felt much more so in Lindy's scheme).The only issue for Mercer is whether C or W pays him more with the Devils. Since C is more valuable around the league, I feel like he'd prefer that.

RNH is an example of someone who has bounces between C and W. RNH plays a different style, but obviously brings a lot of value to the Oilers.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Hischier - Hughes - Haula - Lazar is more than good enough, in my opinion.

The only real issues are we don’t have backup options for any of them and if Hughes moves to wing, the center position gets real thin. Definitely need to try to add a middle-six forward who has the ability to play center (maybe Henrique) and possibly a guy in the bottom six to do the same (Trenin, Stenlund, etc.).

I do wonder if the Devils might float the idea of trying Mercer at center again. It hasn’t worked out well, but should definitely be explored again at some point before the Devils give up on it.

I would bring Nosek back as well. He got peanuts the last time around.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The way I see it, we can either:

1.) Play Haula with Jack and bring in a new 3C
3.) Bring in a possession positive top-6 forward and play Haula at 3C

I would prefer the later because I don’t think Haula is a good enough top-6 winger. He doesn’t play that role to elevate the line, but to cover up for Jack. I’d rather get a legit top-6 guy and play Haula where he belongs.

That said, there are a few guys who appeal to me as possible 3C options. Stephenson, Henrique, Monahan, Wennberg. But anytime a quality center hits the open market they’re almost always overpaid and I’d prefer not to be the one to do it.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Continually rolling out guys like vanacek would also be stupid.

Pick the poison you want to die from

Never really said we should stick to Vanacek. Allen/Kahk is better than him. Giving up Casey for Markstrom really would be quite literally an alternative poison, with 0 difference. No thanks.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Jack doesn't need to play with Haula. Hopefully Keefe does not try that nonsense anymore.

I don't care if Jack never gets above 40% at faceoffs. He should play center.

Haula absolutely need to be on the 3rd line.

 

[CalamityX23]

I'll do a hot take..... Last season, among the many individual performances, was not a very good one for Haula based on the eye test..... Mcleod was a very good 3C in our speed first type offense who was just improving until the "that" happen.

Haula wasn't good in my eyes, and I don't think he should have his spot locked up to be honest. Really believe, we should upgrade over him and move him to the 4th line or depth piece. Lockeroom guy i'm sure, but on the ice. idk... he wasn't playing above what we needed on the ice.

IMO

 

[Forge]

Never really said we should stick to Vanacek. Allen/Kahk is better than him. Giving up Casey for Markstrom really would be quite literally an alternative poison, with 0 difference. No thanks.

Nobody said anything about Casey

 

[JimEIV]

The bottom 6 sucks all around in my opinion.

Can we expect a rebound season from Palat at 33 going on 34 before the seasons end? I think last year was more likely the beginning of his end.

Haula isn't a terrible 3C option but he's the same exact age as Palat....these two guys are getting long in the tooth.

Lazar just had a career year....Did you notice? Yeah no else did either. He's an extra that's why.

And our top 6 needs two wingers to play with the core 4.

The entire 4 forward lines are broken.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Again, I don't even like Palat that much, but he was basically a 0.5 ppg player and led the forwards in xG% (and top 35 in the entire NHL among forwards). This notion that he is shot is kind of ridiculous IMO. Sure, we'd love him to pot a few more goals, but the point remains.

Lazar is not an extra. He is a very effective 4th liner as he showed last year. Not sure I understand the hate surrounding him?

 

[swiiscompos]

Again, I don't even like Palat that much, but he was basically a 0.5 ppg player and led the forwards in xG% (and top 35 in the entire NHL among forwards). This notion that he is shot is kind of ridiculous IMO. Sure, we'd love him to pot a few more goals, but the point remains.

Lazar is not an extra. He is a very effective 4th liner as he showed last year. Not sure I understand the hate surrounding him?

Hate? I think he's well loved, and rightfully so.