Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[BurntToast]

I hate to say it..but a lot of you have “Loser Mentality”.

It didn’t work with what the Devils had last year.

Fitz should just wait around for the perfect opportunity. Who cares if that opportunity doesn’t come..

There are possible issues around corner.

1) Possible Expansion
2) CBA is Due 26’
A) Both sides are all ready prepping
3) Years with added wear (Olympics and 4 Nations)

These are just a couple outside factors. Teams have shown you can navigate Cap issues. You can bury bad contracts.

Some of you don’t think the Devils will compete until 25-26 but are also upset with Markstrom who could be gone by that time.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I hate to say it..but a lot of you have “Loser Mentality”.

It didn’t work with what the Devils had last year.

Fitz should just wait around for the perfect opportunity. Who cares if that opportunity doesn’t come..

There are possible issues around corner.

1) Possible Expansion
2) CBA is Due 26’
A) Both sides are all ready prepping
3) Years with added wear (Olympics and 4 Nations)

These are just a couple outside factors. Teams have shown you can navigate Cap issues. You can bury bad contracts.

Some of you don’t think the Devils will compete until 25-26 but are also upset with Markstrom who could be gone by that time.

This is an extremely unclear and confusing post. What is the point you are trying to make even? I think you’re suggesting we should trade for Markstrom but completely ignored the main arguments people are actually making against it. Could be wrong.

I don’t think anyone’s main concern with Markstrom is the cap hit.

 

[Forge]

This is an extremely unclear and confusing post. What is the point you are trying to make even? I think you’re suggesting we should trade for Markstrom but completely ignored the main arguments people are actually making against it. Could be wrong.

I don’t think anyone’s main concern with Markstrom is the cap hit.

I'm glad I wasn't the only a little confused there

 

[Darkauron]

Yeah that post made no sense

 

[MadDevil]

It's not Markstrom's cap hit that's the worry, it's his actual performance given his age and the fact that in recent years he tends to run hot or cold. It's also a short term solution so either we win with him in the next couple years, or hope that somebody develops from within or there's another goalie available to replace him in 2-3 years (assuming he's actually good or at least adequate for that long).

It's why I'd rather go after Saros or Ullmark because the runway is likely going to be longer than with Markstrom. Although obviously the cost is going to be higher too, and if they don't work out we're stuck with an expensive declining goalie for longer than if Markstrom flames out. I don't envy Fitz. It's never a good position to be in when everybody knows you need a goalie and there are limited options. And gambling on going the cheaper route and hoping it actually works is a hard sell when the goaltending has been dogshit 2 of the last 3 years.

 

[Devs3cups]

I was surprised to see that we had a 18-2-1 record after leading after the 1st period.

Unfortunate that we only scored first 25 times ALL SEASON.

 

[My3Sons]

I hate to say it..but a lot of you have “Loser Mentality”.

It didn’t work with what the Devils had last year.

Fitz should just wait around for the perfect opportunity. Who cares if that opportunity doesn’t come..

There are possible issues around corner.

1) Possible Expansion
2) CBA is Due 26’
A) Both sides are all ready prepping
3) Years with added wear (Olympics and 4 Nations)

These are just a couple outside factors. Teams have shown you can navigate Cap issues. You can bury bad contracts.

Some of you don’t think the Devils will compete until 25-26 but are also upset with Markstrom who could be gone by that time.

Once you start insulting people you lose the impact of your real point.

 

[BurntToast]

It's not Markstrom's cap hit that's the worry, it's his actual performance given his age and the fact that in recent years he tends to run hot or cold. It's also a short term solution so either we win with him in the next couple years, or hope that somebody develops from within or there's another goalie available to replace him in 2-3 years (assuming he's actually good or at least adequate for that long).

It's why I'd rather go after Saros or Ullmark because the runway is likely going to be longer than with Markstrom. Although obviously the cost is going to be higher too, and if they don't work out we're stuck with an expensive declining goalie for longer than if Markstrom flames out. I don't envy Fitz. It's never a good position to be in when everybody knows you need a goalie and there are limited options. And gambling on going the cheaper route and hoping it actually works is a hard sell when the goaltending has been dogshit 2 of the last 3 years.

But there may be bigger risk there..1) Shesterkin’s contract could set the market. 2) Both goalies will be in their 30s when the contracts start. 3) If you don’t give them term and AVV you could lose them to FA anyways. 4) Those contracts can get worse quickly if there is a lockout or expansion.

All I was trying to say. If Fitz gets Markstrom his term and AVV could are benefits. Also you don’t need a great goalie to win the cup. This argument works for and against Markstrom.

Once you start insulting people you lose the impact of your real point.

Elliot Friedman Refrence..

 

[Billdo]

This is an extremely unclear and confusing post. What is the point you are trying to make even? I think you’re suggesting we should trade for Markstrom but completely ignored the main arguments people are actually making against it. Could be wrong.

I don’t think anyone’s main concern with Markstrom is the cap hit.

Mine is I just don't think he's good enough to justify the cost. To be honest, Saros is the only one who might be available that is good enough, but his acquisition cost will be larger and he'll require an extension. I keep inching closer to signing a guy to split time with Allen and really upgrade the bottom 6 and find a defensive LD.

 

[Nubmer6]

Once you start insulting people you lose the impact of your real point.

Insulting you *IS* my point

 

[Forge]

Mine is I just don't think he's good enough to justify the cost. To be honest, Saros is the only one who might be available that is good enough, but his acquisition cost will be larger and he'll require an extension. I keep inching closer to signing a guy to split time with Allen and really upgrade the bottom 6 and find a defensive LD.

Pretty much this.

Markstrom actually is my preferred target, but he's not good enough to be a "go get him no matter what" guy.

If the cost to go get him is 10, I'm kicking the tires on some other options.

 

[Billdo]

Pretty much this.

Markstrom actually is my preferred target, but he's not good enough to be a "go get him no matter what" guy.

If the cost to go get him is 10, I'm kicking the tires on some other options.

If he's the target there has to be 50% retention PLUS the 28th and maybe a 3rd or something. I just don't get the hype.

 

[BurntToast]

If he's the target there has to be 50% retention PLUS the 28th and maybe a 3rd or something. I just don't get the hype.

We all seen goalies play well months on end to just fall off. Schmid, Kinkaid are a few. Signing Kahkonen who is over 3GAA and Under .900 SV% over his career would be a big risk for Fitz.

​

 

[Captain3rdLine]

We all seen goalies play well months on end to just fall off. Schmid, Kinkaid are a few. Signing Kahkonen who is over 3GAA and Under .900 SV% over his career would be a big risk for Fitz.

​

Pretty much any goalie option being discussed is gonna be a big risk and especially one who’s 34 years old, inconsistent at times, and injured. That’s without even accounting for the risk of giving up a 10th overall pick.

 

[BurntToast]

Pretty much any goalie option being discussed is gonna be a big risk and especially one who’s 34 years old, inconsistent at times, and injured. That’s without even accounting for the risk of giving up a 10th overall pick.

But for Fitz it’s easier for him to tell the owners/management that he tried something vs not trying and getting the same conclusion.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't take the Senators seriously.

With Arizona/Utah under new ownership, I say they’re the most poorly run team in the league right now.

Still TBD with Utah, because I would have moved Ottawa up a bit after Melnyk passed away and they Dorion finally got fired.

But they’re off to a hell of a start under their new people. Hiring Travis Green as head coach and giving him a 4 year deal just a few minutes after the season ended and before almost anybody (other than Buffalo with Lindy) else with a vacancy even hired a head coach? They even took too long to fire Dorion/DJ Smith after Staios and new ownership came through.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

But for Fitz it’s easier for him to tell the owners/management that he tried something vs not trying and getting the same conclusion.

I hope to god Fitz isn’t making decisions based on how easy it will be to excuse or tell the owners after the fact. But he’ll be trying something new regardless. It’s just a matter of how big and expensive he’s going.

The problem with Markstrom is the potential price being discussed far exceeds the value we could reasonably expect.

 

[MadDevil]

Is the goalie market next summer likely to be better or worse? If the price is too high to pay this summer, is there anybody worth saving the assets for and going after next year if whatever cheaper option we go with doesn't work?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Is the goalie market next summer likely to be better or worse? If the price is too high to pay this summer, is there anybody worth saving the assets for and going after next year if whatever cheaper option we go with doesn't work?

I mean I think it’s too hard to predict what the market is gonna look like to count on or consider trying to do that. Best to work with whatever options you have right now IMO and then reassess next off-season.

 

[SKNJD9]

Is the goalie market next summer likely to be better or worse? If the price is too high to pay this summer, is there anybody worth saving the assets for and going after next year if whatever cheaper option we go with doesn't work?

 

[Goptor]

But there may be bigger risk there..1) Shesterkin’s contract could set the market. 2) Both goalies will be in their 30s when the contracts start. 3) If you don’t give them term and AVV you could lose them to FA anyways. 4) Those contracts can get worse quickly if there is a lockout or expansion.

All I was trying to say. If Fitz gets Markstrom his term and AVV could are benefits. Also you don’t need a great goalie to win the cup. This argument works for and against Markstrom.



Elliot Friedman Refrence..

I don't think Shesterkin's contract will have any effect. Nobody else in the league comes close to him.

 

[BurntToast]

I don't think Shesterkin's contract will have any effect. Nobody else in the league comes close to him.

Yeah, but with goalies AVV all ready starting to creep, a bump in cap and a shortage on top guys, you can imagine Saros and Ullmark getting close to 8-9mil AVV. If Shesterkin gets 10-11.

There was a discussion about how the Seth Jones contract changed the market on defenseman in 2021’. That year, Dougie’s contract came in around 9. Nurse got around 9 and Werenski got around 9.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It's not Markstrom's cap hit that's the worry, it's his actual performance given his age and the fact that in recent years he tends to run hot or cold. It's also a short term solution so either we win with him in the next couple years, or hope that somebody develops from within or there's another goalie available to replace him in 2-3 years (assuming he's actually good or at least adequate for that long).

It's why I'd rather go after Saros or Ullmark because the runway is likely going to be longer than with Markstrom. Although obviously the cost is going to be higher too, and if they don't work out we're stuck with an expensive declining goalie for longer than if Markstrom flames out. I don't envy Fitz. It's never a good position to be in when everybody knows you need a goalie and there are limited options. And gambling on going the cheaper route and hoping it actually works is a hard sell when the goaltending has been dogshit 2 of the last 3 years.

The counter to this is if Saros implodes then they just nuke their window completely. You're not getting off an albatross goalie contract in net during your contending years. Look at how brutal people thought the Bob contract was for Florida until the past 14 months happened. Them getting a renaissance out of Bob isn't the norm. Another good comparison is Trouba v Subban back in 2019. Rangers got Trouba for his one off year in WPG and now he's the worst contract in the sport + destroying their cup chances yearly while the Devils got PK and still kept long term flexibility granted he fell off a cliff. Markstrom at his ceiling + our flexibility in the future makes him the easier choice here. If Markstrom implodes, our cup window doesn't automatically die with him. If Saros implodes more specifically with a big deal, we're in a world of hurt

 

[Billdo]

We all seen goalies play well months on end to just fall off. Schmid, Kinkaid are a few. Signing Kahkonen who is over 3GAA and Under .900 SV% over his career would be a big risk for Fitz.

​

Huh

 

[ndkjr70]

if the Islanders go in a totally new direction this offseason, what do the Devils need to add to 10 OA for Sorokin?

If 10OA + Mercer for Sorokin was put on the table do you bite?