Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[theoptimist]

The Ottawa Senators have studied Jacob Markstrom as an option for troubled goaltending

The Senators have been in heavy pursuit of a goalie.

ottawacitizen.com

Why do his sources always give some crazy high return expectations?

Fitz has not stated he is willing to move #10 for a goalie. The media is trying to intersect parallel lines. This is not what Fitz said.

 

[JimEIV]

The player we draft at #10 will be ready to make his early appearance in the NHL when we're seriously ready to compete in 2 years.


And Markstrom will be back in Gavle at the Blackstone steakhouse watching us in the playoffs.

I wouldn't even be interested in a 2nd round pick and/or Holtz for a 35 year old goalie for this team. It would a terrible mismanagement of assets.

 

[Rhodes 81]

The player we draft at #10 will be ready to make his early appearance in the NHL when we're seriously ready to compete in 2 years.


And Markstrom will be back in Gavle at the Blackstone steakhouse watching us in the playoffs.

I trust the prospect folks on this board quite a bit, and they indicate that several players that should still be on the board at that point are maybe a year away from providing 3rd line level play on an ELC.

I happen to believe the optimal timeline for us involves a good season that ends in another first or 2nd round run, then takes advantage of Nemec still being on his ELC next offseason. Or 25-26 team could very well include 10OA, Nemec, and Gritsyuk all on ELCs. That would allow us to spend big both this offseason and next on additional players that can carry us over the hump to true contention status. It's a bonus if those players' contracts expire that season to give us the wiggle room to re-sign Nemec at that point.

My opinion is that better health, better forward depth, and what should be a much improved defensive system under Keefe will be enough to get a "good" season out of a more conservative tandem like Allen and Kahkonen/Talbot/some other comparable UFA G that can play 35-40 games and only cost you a few. Then if we still aren't confident in those next season, Allen's contract expires and we can make a run at what is likely to be a better UFA group the next year.

I just worry Fitz's talk and the reality that he may be managing for his job this year will have backed him into a corner where he doesn't feel like he can afford to play it that way. But 25-26 is likely to be one of the best opportunities we get with this core from a contracts perspective in the next 3-4 years.

 

[Forge]

Fitz has not stated he is willing to move #10 for a goalie. The media is trying to intersect parallel lines. This is not what Fitz said.

Agreed. It's amazing how many people have run with that

 

[JimEIV]

I trust the prospect folks on this board quite a bit, and they indicate that several players that should still be on the board at that point are maybe a year away from providing 3rd line level play on an ELC.

I happen to believe the optimal timeline for us involves a good season that ends in another first or 2nd round run, then takes advantage of Nemec still being on his ELC next offseason. Or 25-26 team could very well include 10OA, Nemec, and Gritsyuk all on ELCs. That would allow us to spend big both this offseason and next on additional players that can carry us over the hump to true contention status. It's a bonus if those players' contracts expire that season to give us the wiggle room to re-sign Nemec at that point.

My opinion is that better health, better forward depth, and what should be a much improved defensive system under Keefe will be enough to get a "good" season out of a more conservative tandem like Allen and Kahkonen/Talbot/some other comparable UFA G that can play 35-40 games and only cost you a few. Then if we still aren't confident in those next season, Allen's contract expires and we can make a run at what is likely to be a better UFA group the next year.

I just worry Fitz's talk and the reality that he may be managing for his job this year will have backed him into a corner where he doesn't feel like he can afford to play it that way. But 25-26 is likely to be one of the best opportunities we get with this core from a contracts perspective in the next 3-4 years.

I think the 25-26 timeline is still very aggressive but definitely more feasible than now. It really depends on what kind of help Fitz is able to get us.

Edit: "Forward depth" sounds simple but I think when you dissect how much is really needed right now, it's a lot more daunting than just "forward depth"

I also agree that the goal should be making the playoffs with an emphasis on more complete play. We need a philosophical reset with this team and hopefully Keefe brings that new perspective and its quickly absorbed and accepted.

 

[ndkjr70]

Nobody:

Senators beat reporter: YEA haha so that’s why it feels like they will probably get a top-10 pick and an A prospect for this 36 year old goaltender.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The player we draft at #10 will be ready to make his early appearance in the NHL when we're seriously ready to compete in 2 years.


And Markstrom will be back in Gavle at the Blackstone steakhouse watching us in the playoffs.

I wouldn't even be interested in a 2nd round pick and/or Holtz for a 35 year old goalie for this team. It would a terrible mismanagement of assets.

so who should the team acquire to play goalie for the next 2 years? I guess by your logic, since they arent "seriously ready to compete", they should just trot out the same loser goalies they have been using?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

There’s no world where we should be considering trading a #10 pick for a 34 year old goalie. I can probably count on one hand the number of goalies at any age worth that consideration given how voodoo the position is. And none of them would be in there mid 30s

 

[HoliksGhost]

Maybe because he said this ?
BUFFALO -- The New Jersey Devils are willing to trade the No. 10 pick in the 2024 Upper Deck NHL Draft for the right price.

"If we feel it helps us now and in the foreseeable future, then, yes, I'm listening," New Jersey general manager Tom Fitzgerald told NHL.com on Monday during a break from interviews at the NHL Scouting Combine. "I haven't gotten anything yet but the more I talk to teams, I say 'Listen, I'm open to moving No. 10, but it's going to have to be something (significant).'"

 

[tailfins]

so who should the team acquire to play goalie for the next 2 years? I guess by your logic, since they arent "seriously ready to compete", they should just trot out the same loser goalies they have been using?

I don't see what's wrong with Kahkonen + Allen next year.

I get that it could tank the season if those guys are sub .900 goalies, but:
a) who else would you want and at what cost?
b) are you sure they'd do much better?

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

Washington got into the playoffs with Darcy Kuemper and Charlie Lindgren. Toronto got in with Samsonov and Woll. LA made it with Talbot and Rittich. Edmonton with Skinner and Pickard. The Avs with Georgiev and Prosvetov / Annunen.

The Devils should be able to make the playoffs with Kahkonen + Allen. Or Broissoit + Allen.

 

[CalamityX23]

I'm ok with giving Kahkonen a go and run it back with K&A.

Even have Daws in the back in case of anything along with Akira....

If the Devils look like their a Stanely Cup team by the deadline maybe that power trade for the goalie but lets see how we do without sacrificing big assets for minor returns.

 

[Devils731]

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

That’s where I’m at. Why would I want to pay a lot for the privilege of making a minor upgrade in goal?

There is a definite chance that whomever the Devils trade for ends up worse than whatever goalies the Devils end up not going with. For example, if Schmid is in a package for Markstrom, there is some chance Schmid has a better year next year than Markstrom and I had to pay to get the worse performance.

So, for me, I’m holding the line on what I will give up for some of the marginal goalies. If I get them, great, and if I don’t think I’ll keep moving forward.

 

[Edmonton East]

I don't see what's wrong with Kahkonen + Allen next year.

I get that it could tank the season if those guys are sub .900 goalies, but:
a) who else would you want and at what cost?
b) are you sure they'd do much better?

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

Washington got into the playoffs with Darcy Kuemper and Charlie Lindgren. Toronto got in with Samsonov and Woll. LA made it with Talbot and Rittich. Edmonton with Skinner and Pickard. The Avs with Georgiev and Prosvetov / Annunen.

The Devils should be able to make the playoffs with Kahkonen + Allen. Or Broissoit + Allen.

The choice is simple. Do folks want:

A) a roster with only 4 capable top 6 forwards + limited depth, but a good (not great and certainly not elite goalie)
B) a strong top 6 that isn't reliant on big years from Mercer + Holtz and perfect forward health, but an average+ goalie

Not a hard decision in the 2024 NHL. For every Bobrovsky there are 10 Stuart Skinners seriously contending or winning cups.

 

[Patrik26]

I listen to my armpits. They know.

Once again my timing is impeccable. Lunch ruined.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Rahk the Kahk baby

 

[bossram]

Would Mercer even want to sign a long term deal?

Had an awful year which will cost him money. Better to just get back in there, get some playoff games in, and go for the big money later.

Yep. I don't see why Mercer would even want to go long-term coming off his worst season, and lock himself into the lowest-end contract he could get.

A bridge makes sense for team and player. Keeps him cheaper so they can capitalize on their efficient contracts in the next 2-3 seasons, and if he performs well he will be rewarded on his third contract.

 

[bossram]

We again go into next year wondering who our PKr's are. Given the performance last year, it's even more concerning going into next year.

For as much as we hated Smith, he was our best guy, by a wide stretch, and it looks like he is gone.

Marino is a given, but as noted, given performance we have lost some confidence.

Sieg's if he's back, is a given, but in the one situation you'd think he is best suited, he didn't perform well at all.

I thought Hamilton needed to adapt and pick up some of those minutes, that didn't happen.

Bahl hopefully has some upside, but wasn't very good.

Is Nemec ready? Are we ready to put that weight on him?

Luke is probably out of the mix.

It's a pretty big question mark.

It's why I've been saying for some time that a big need for this team is a legit, top-four defensive defenseman. Someone who can push Bahl/Siegs, ideally pair with Marino in the shutdown role, play on the 1PK, and gives you depth in case of injuries (look at last season....).

My ideal is a Marcus Pettersson trade. Would be difficult to swing though.

I'm somewhat intrigued by which direction Seattle goes. Perhaps Oleksiak becomes available.

I'm confident we'll add a D this offseason, we need at least 7 and I'd be shocked if we didn't add for injury insurances. Still rooting for a Dillon signing.

Dillon fills the defensive LD need somewhat, but it's been pretty telegraphed that he's signing in his hometown Vancouver.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don't see what's wrong with Kahkonen + Allen next year.

I get that it could tank the season if those guys are sub .900 goalies, but:
a) who else would you want and at what cost?
b) are you sure they'd do much better?

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

Washington got into the playoffs with Darcy Kuemper and Charlie Lindgren. Toronto got in with Samsonov and Woll. LA made it with Talbot and Rittich. Edmonton with Skinner and Pickard. The Avs with Georgiev and Prosvetov / Annunen.

The Devils should be able to make the playoffs with Kahkonen + Allen. Or Broissoit + Allen.

did you not see how demoralized the team was after the first softie of the night would go in? if they run it back with them sure it could work but it could very well implode again and you just waste another year and for what? because you dont want to spend to get a goalie? so you go into next summer with the same issue do you then want to finally spend? sure any goalie can blow up if they trade for them thats the risk you take. the devils went the cheap route once with vitek and schmid and it backfired. want to roll the dice again on allen and kapo? eh

 

[Devilsfan992]

You guys are nuts to run it back with Kahkonen and Allen.

 

[glenwo2]

so who should the team acquire to play goalie for the next 2 years? I guess by your logic, since they arent "seriously ready to compete", they should just trot out the same loser goalies they have been using?

That's right, @woody footbreaker . LOSER goalies is what ZBC said.




Anyway, to respond to @tailfins point :

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

Depends on what the "overpayment" is.

For my part, an overpayment would be giving up a roster player like Mercer for him PLUS the #10 pick.

If we don't have to give him up nor the #10 pick, I'm all over that.

But I'm all prepared to give up a good prospect 'cause you have to give up something good to get something good.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I don't see what's wrong with Kahkonen + Allen next year.

I get that it could tank the season if those guys are sub .900 goalies, but:
a) who else would you want and at what cost?
b) are you sure they'd do much better?

Meaning, if you can't get Ullmark or Saros, are you really willing to overpay for Markstrom, Merzlikins, Vejmelka, Gibson, Binnington, etc.? Are those guys guaranteeing you anything better than Kahknonen + Allen?

Washington got into the playoffs with Darcy Kuemper and Charlie Lindgren. Toronto got in with Samsonov and Woll. LA made it with Talbot and Rittich. Edmonton with Skinner and Pickard. The Avs with Georgiev and Prosvetov / Annunen.

The Devils should be able to make the playoffs with Kahkonen + Allen. Or Broissoit + Allen.

I don't think Ullmark is that good honestly. Also kahkonen outplayed Allen imo, although it was smaller sample size.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

did you not see how demoralized the team was after the first softie of the night would go in? if they run it back with them sure it could work but it could very well implode again and you just waste another year and for what? because you dont want to spend to get a goalie? so you go into next summer with the same issue do you then want to finally spend? sure any goalie can blow up if they trade for them thats the risk you take. the devils went the cheap route once with vitek and schmid and it backfired. want to roll the dice again on allen and kapo? eh

That's not an excuse at all. They need to stop being mental babies. The nhl is not gunna be a cakewalk and they can't expect everything to go smoothly. Like the one poster wrote, for every bobrovsky/sheterkin, there's 10 stuart skinners. It's a privilege to have amazing goaltending, not a right.

Markstrom is not much of an upgrade and to spend significant assets for him is stupid. Saros would be good but how realistic is that. There just isn't much options out there.

That's right, @woody footbreaker . LOSER goalies is what ZBC said.




Anyway, to respond to @tailfins point :


Depends on what the "overpayment" is.

For my part, an overpayment would be giving up a roster player like Mercer for him PLUS the #10 pick.

If we don't have to give him up nor the #10 pick, I'm all over that.

But I'm all prepared to give up a good prospect 'cause you have to give up something good to get something good.

The problem is...Markstrom isn't good. He'd be a marginal upgrade.

 

[JrFischer54]

The choice is simple. Do folks want:

A) a roster with only 4 capable top 6 forwards + limited depth, but a good (not great and certainly not elite goalie)
B) a strong top 6 that isn't reliant on big years from Mercer + Holtz and perfect forward health, but an average+ goalie

Not a hard decision in the 2024 NHL. For every Bobrovsky there are 10 Stuart Skinners seriously contending or winning cups.

how many stuart skinners cost their team their playoff series or even making the playoffs? so I get there are years when "no names" make the finals or win the cup lets not forget the bunch of other no names that didn't get that far because well they suck and it killed their team

I don't think Ullmark is that good honestly. Also kahkonen outplayed Allen imo, although it was smaller sample size.

schmid looked good with a small sample size last year too how did that work out for us.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I don't think Ullmark is that good honestly. Also kahkonen outplayed Allen imo, although it was smaller sample size.

this is crazy to me. I don't think he isa Vezina caliber goalie, but he is still very good. Look at his stats on those terrible Buffalo teams before he got to Boston...they were still quite good.

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm ok with giving Kahkonen a go and run it back with K&A.

Even have Daws in the back in case of anything along with Akira....

If the Devils look like their a Stanely Cup team by the deadline maybe that power trade for the goalie but lets see how we do without sacrificing big assets for minor returns.

filling the biggest hole on this team and making the playoffs aren't minor returns.