Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II
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Imo yes....Fighter no fierce all around no...Capable of going to net and net front yes imo
JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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Graves and Marino combined to give up the 8th fewest goals in the league in 2023 out of 63 pairs to have played more than 800 minutes.
840:53 5v5 minutes together and they gave up 27 goals...that was like a week's worth of goals for anyone that played with Marino this season
Edit: I actually messed up and count 2023 and 24....
They were actually the 3rd best in 2023 and the 8th best of the last two years combined.
840:53 5v5 minutes together and they gave up 27 goals...that was like a week's worth of goals for anyone that played with Marino this season
Edit: I actually messed up and count 2023 and 24....
They were actually the 3rd best in 2023 and the 8th best of the last two years combined.
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Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
Graves and Marino combined to give up the 8th fewest goals in the league in 2023 out of 63 pairs to have played more than 800 minutes.
840:53 5v5 minutes together and they gave up 27 goals...that was like a week's worth of goals for anyone that played with Marino this season
Luke Hughes with Brendan Smith: 48% CF%, 38% xG%, 4.04 GA/60
Luke Hughes without Brendan Smith: 55% CF%, 55% xG%, 2.07 GA/60
2022-23 John Marino with Ryan Graves (840 5 on 5 minutes): 52% CF%, 53% xG%, 1.93 GA/60
hmmmmmm
so Luke AWAY from Brendan Smith allowed just 0.14 goals per 60 more than the 'vaunted' Marino/Graves pairing in 22-23.
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Captain3rdLine
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Graves was terrible straight up. Was decent for stretches but was mostly kept afloat by Marino’s great play. And then he sucked this year for Pittsburgh. Luke despite certain mistakes and trouble’s was an overall better player this year.
As others have said the biggest reasons our D was so much worse is that Siegs, and Marino sucked, Smith was horrendous, and Dougie was out for most the year.
As others have said the biggest reasons our D was so much worse is that Siegs, and Marino sucked, Smith was horrendous, and Dougie was out for most the year.
Letting Luke/nemec getting valuable experience will pay dividends exponentially than signing graves and bum ass severson to the dog water contracts they got this offseason and certainly will pay more dividends than replacing severson/graves with free agent plug ins that would get far to long and far to big contracts.
guitarguyvic
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Severson was great on the third pairing. We all saw what happens when he played above that regularly in previous seasons. You can’t pay a guy like that premium money. There’s no doubt we are better off long term without him.
Devils future...I thought I should weight in...it's vitally important that I be heard on these matters.
I think Luke becomes elite in two years. I already think his offensive game is there. I also think his one v one is better than ok. He just has to work on decisions and positions. It's experience but he is going to be special.
Simon, is further along decision-wise but still not quality. I was really surprised though how he handled the physical forechecks.
For me they need a big upgrade in minute eating dmen..maybe it's a Siege rebound, Dougie rebound or Luke and Simon surprise, but that's bigger to me than upgrades from Jake Allen.
Second, they need an engaged, less soft forward group that not satisfied with fly by checks and perimeter shots
Those are bigger, for me than finding some savior goalie.
Love the Joshua, Trenin, Chatfield thoughts
I think Luke becomes elite in two years. I already think his offensive game is there. I also think his one v one is better than ok. He just has to work on decisions and positions. It's experience but he is going to be special.
Simon, is further along decision-wise but still not quality. I was really surprised though how he handled the physical forechecks.
For me they need a big upgrade in minute eating dmen..maybe it's a Siege rebound, Dougie rebound or Luke and Simon surprise, but that's bigger to me than upgrades from Jake Allen.
Second, they need an engaged, less soft forward group that not satisfied with fly by checks and perimeter shots
Those are bigger, for me than finding some savior goalie.
Love the Joshua, Trenin, Chatfield thoughts
Nobody will be talking about Graves and Severson this time next year.
Captain3rdLine
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People already shouldn’t be talking about Graves. He was a big soft defensemen who couldn’t handle pressure. Would be fine as a 4/5 defensemen with a good partner.
JimEIV
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Fewest goals against per 60 of any defenseman for Pittsburgh this season at Even Strength.
It was actually a very good 2 GA per 60 at ES . Last year he was at 2.3 on one of the best pairs in the league. He averaged 16:23 at ES this season and last year averaged 17:29 at ES
This year none of our regular Dmen were under Siegenthaler's 2.7 GA/60.
Fewer goals against are scored when Graves is on the ice.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Helps when your on ice save percentage at even strength is .933. Connor Hellebuyck's ES save percentage is .933.
JimEIV
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Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Yes.
When Graves was on the ice at even strength, his goalies were basically Connor Hellebuyck.
JimEIV
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I waited for some time for you to fix your post and realize Connor Hellebuyck and Ryan Graves never played together.
But you haven't done it yet.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Because I didn't say that they played together?
The draft rankings video podcast I'm featured on is up. I warn you all it's really long haha.
I come on at about the 25 minute mark, if that helps shorten things. I think we start discussing the actual prospects is about the 46 minute mark, mostly because I'm bad at knowing when to shut up. If you want to know how weird I am, the 25-46 minute might be funny to watch.
I come on at about the 25 minute mark, if that helps shorten things. I think we start discussing the actual prospects is about the 46 minute mark, mostly because I'm bad at knowing when to shut up. If you want to know how weird I am, the 25-46 minute might be funny to watch.
It was clear that Luke's offensive game was elite as soon as this goal happened:
That's some Niedermayer shit right there.
JimEIV
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If you didn't make a mistake I'm not really sure what you are saying....both of Pittsburgh's goalies were very average this season...
Jarry was a .903 in 51 games and
Nedelijkovic was.902 in 38 games
League average was was.903
If either of those had a super high on ice SV% with Graves on the ice, it had something to do with Graves not the opposite.
TrufleShufle
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Doesn't that go back to the age old argument here? Does good defense make better goalies. Without getting into the current argument of who's better and who's at fault. Better D-man don't just never allow shots to happen, they allow shots that are very easy to stop, while directing the oncoming offense away from opportunities that would be harder for the goalie behind them to stop.
It's like saying Mcdavid is only good because whoever his linemates are, some how they always end up being huge point producers. So it's his random linemates and not him.....
Drastic, but the point stands.
Unless you aren't saying Graves on ice GA is only good because when he's on the ice the goalies have better save %s. If that's not what you are saying, then my apologies.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
Yeah, Slavin's ES on ice save percentage was .909.
That difference is probably because Graves is just so much better at ES than Slavin is.
Normal Devil
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What's the scuttlebutt on assistant coaches being discussed for the Devils? Jeremy Colliton and Dean Chenoweth have come up in recent days. Would these guys be upgrades over some of what we have on hand?
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
There's built in randomness to this stuff. Luck is absolutely involved.
Graves' numbers (specifically the numbers that Jim is referencing) are bolstered this year because his goalies saved something like 14 goals more than expected when he was on the ice. The same way he wasn't as bad as he looked two years ago when his goalies were an .887 when he was on the ice at ES. This is just context to how those numbers are obtained.
Yegor Sharangovich score 31 goals this year. Last year he scored 13. It's the same dude. One year he shot 9.9%, the next he shot 17.4%.
And the point isn't really to shit on Graves. I mean, over his career he's had some pretty good on ice save percentage numbers, so he's doing something right (it may be just having good partners as I think his main partner in Colorado was Makar and his good year here was with Marino, but lets try and give him a little credit). But .933 is just abnormally high, especially for that team. I mean, when I see Pens fans would happily just give him away right now, that kind of says a lot to me.
ZachaFlockaFlame
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Exactly, no one is gonna argue that they wouldn't want Graves+Severson back if they played like they did at the peaks. They're both good top 4 D's in this league when they are but the reality of the salary cap world is you cut costs when you're about to enter Cup contender status. The Devils had two top 4 picks on the defense that needed time. We're a way better team with Luke+Nemec at their peaks than Severson+Graves on this roster. Not a soul on this board can even argue that. Arguing about the youth D months after the season is just revisionist history
TrufleShufle
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That's all fine, and I won't make it seem like he is some massively under rated d-man, but if we had one guy who whenever was on the ice the goalie saved something on average way outside the average with anyone else. I would look into it. Statistics over a year will do a good job of stamping out random luck.
We had bad goalies. Getting that out of the way before I get accused of not believing it. But you can't think what happens in front of a goalie doesn't affect a goalie outside just the pure number of shots.
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