Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

All I know is I’m going to be very pissed off if we move on from Kahkonen and he plays well somewhere else. He’s been respectable outside of the hellhole that is SJ. Sure he hasn’t been a proven 1A, but why can’t he be? Markstrom wasn’t a reliable 1 until he was 28. Kahkonen is turning 28.

I rather keep him too but he's probably gonna cost more than Allen's 1.5M and we might be right at the cap with how Fitz is talking about the offseason similar to 22-23.

 

[jkrdevil]

Let’s be clear. If the team is not a contender this year Fitz is going to be gone at the end of it. You can’t 3 out of 4 underperforming seasons as a GM and hold on to our job. Especially when two of those season ended up a full 20 points below expectations (granted the season between went the other direction).

 

[njdevils1982]

Nail Yakupov

kaapo kaako

 

[devilsblood]

Not to mention it’d be kind of unfair to tell Schmid and Daws, who’ve both had at least small periods of success in the NHL, sorry you can’t play in the NHL because we just traded for someone who’s even less proven than you (albeit one would probably leave in any trade).

I don't see this as a big deal. Neither guy was good last year, they may welcome another year in the AHL.

And Allen is likely here for one more year so that would potentially open the door to either guy filling that spot.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I’m sure there is a sliding scale on this sort of trade from stupid to fantastic. My concern is that any trade of 10 will land squarely on meh. I would not move pick 10 for anything close to meh. For example, 10 for Markstrom would border on stupid. Same for Ullmark or Saros. Adding a B+ prosect and a third coming back to NJ maybe moves that towards meh but still not worth it to me. A good return would be someone like Necas where he fits the team profile and age range. A fantastic return would be someone like Tkachuck from Ottawa assuming 10 gets bundled with some other stuff that’s livable. Not that any of those hypothetical trades would ever come to fruition but we seem to be falling into the don’t trade it camp or the do trade it camp and I think almost everyone is in the trade it only if thr return is worth it camp. Of course that is subjective to each person.

Sure, but if we didn't lump everyone into polarized viewpoints and strawmans, what fun would this place be?

For instance, I can say that the officiating was largely fair in the 2019 NFC Championship game and you could take that to mean I think every call was justified (which of course I do), but my statement leaves a lot of room for disagreeing with individual calls.

 

[SKNJD9]

All I know is I’m going to be very pissed off if we move on from Kahkonen and he plays well somewhere else. He’s been respectable outside of the hellhole that is SJ. Sure he hasn’t been a proven 1A, but why can’t he be? Markstrom wasn’t a reliable 1 until he was 28. Kahkonen is turning 28.

He looked good but I wouldn't put too much stock into a small sample size where the games mostly didn't matter while he was here.

 

[Rhodes 81]

As a roster totality, we 100% do.

This is way off topic, but just picking a random year. In 2010-11 the Sharks had Thornton and Marleau both still in their relative primes, Pavelski entering his, Couture breaking out, Clowe in his prime, Heatley still playing at a high level, Setoguchi before he became washed up. And then Boyle, Vlasic, Murray, and Demers on the back end, though Demers and Vlasic were still young for blueliners in their early 20's. They also had Niemi in goal and he put up a .920 save% that year.

This is just one random season but most of them you can go down the list like this. The fact that they didn't win a cup during that period was criminal and goes to show how not guaranteed it is given I really don't think our pieces are significantly better than that. Maybe I'm remembering big names from over a decade ago too fondly but I struggle to give us a clear win in comparison.

 

[Comparison Ford]

i do think if Fitz trades for a player like Askarov it gives him some breathing room. The reason i think it’s a great move is because then the player can grow with the team. Having a goalie in his early 20s along with Nemec and Hughes.

Hughes Bratt Nico
Vets like Hamilton And Meier
Luke Nemec and Askarov

it may not be a totally win now move but it will certainly be a great look for the future (could also be great for now too.)

 

[Bad Goalie]

After reading Steven Toddlves's assessments of his top 15 possible draft selections and those likely still available at #10 convinces me even more that the Devils should use the pick and not trade it. Players being available that are close to NHL ready puts a hole in the common belief that that the draft pick won't be ready for 5 or 6 years.

I also am not in agreement that this season the draft is not important since the Devils are in "win now mode". Their core isn't even close to being out of their window. They haven't even become a consistent playoff team. There are steps to be taken first and Fitz and Keefe are well aware of them. There are players available in this 1st round that can easily meld with this core in plenty of time.

 

[tailfins]

i do think if Fitz trades for a player like Askarov it gives him some breathing room. The reason i think it’s a great move is because then the player can grow with the team. Having a goalie in his early 20s along with Nemec and Hughes.

Hughes Bratt Nico
Vets like Hamilton And Meier
Luke Nemec and Askarov

it may not be a totally win now move but it will certainly be a great look for the future (could also be great for now too.)

I agree. I just don't see Askarov, Wolf, or Levi (or Swayman) being available. Not sure who else might be a top goalie prospect.

The only "recent" high drafted goalie I could see being traded is Spencer Knight. But, he's signed for two more seasons at a $4.5 million cap hit and was an ok but not great AHL goalie where he finished 28th in the league in Sv %. Our own Isaac Poulter finished 11th. Maybe Knight is rebounding from his issues, but is it worth the risk to trade for him?

 

[Comparison Ford]

After reading Steven Toddlves's assessments of his top 15 possible draft selections and those likely still available at #10 convinces me even more that the Devils should use the pick and not trade it. Players being available that are close to NHL ready puts a hole in the common belief that that the draft pick won't be ready for 5 or 6 years.

I also am not in agreement that this season the draft is not important since the Devils are in "win now mode". Their core isn't even close to being out of their window. They haven't even become a consistent playoff team. There are steps to be taken first and Fitz and Keefe are well aware of them. There are players available in this 1st round that can easily meld with this core in plenty of time.

i’m with you. in a dream world we can trade for a guy like Markstrom and keep the pick

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

This is way off topic, but just picking a random year. In 2010-11 the Sharks had Thornton and Marleau both still in their relative primes, Pavelski entering his, Couture breaking out, Clowe in his prime, Heatley still playing at a high level, Setoguchi before he became washed up. And then Boyle, Vlasic, Murray, and Demers on the back end, though Demers and Vlasic were still young for blueliners in their early 20's. They also had Niemi in goal and he put up a .920 save% that year.

This is just one random season but most of them you can go down the list like this. The fact that they didn't win a cup during that period was criminal and goes to show how not guaranteed it is given I really don't think our pieces are significantly better than that. Maybe I'm remembering big names from over a decade ago too fondly but I struggle to give us a clear win in comparison.

That's fair, I don't think the Cup thing is in the back of my mind. Those Sharks teams were awesome, I'm not denying that, I just think we have a way better foundation that they did. Most of their moves were via trade where as this team is more drafting based. Maybe that's where the disconnect is for us, I like teams way more built via the draft than the trade/UFA route. Also yeah, they randomly went years of the revolving door of the winger next Joe/Patty Marleau which hurt them. It could be the Bratt/Jack situation for us but I can't see Fitz being less proactive than what Doug Wilson was for SJ in that spot.

 

[Bleedred]

That Sharks team not winning a cup.......I'm so glad LOSER Todd McLellan isn't here.

And since we didn't hire Travis Green, who is FARRRRRRRRRR worse than Todd (that's how bad Travis Green is) I can now go back to trashing Todd.

MAYBE if they don't blow that 3-0 lead to LA in the first round in 2014? Maybe that's their year. They probably would have lost to Chicago in the WCF, something tells me. Maybe they even lose to the Rags team in the 2014 finals that DD was pumping as team of destiny that entire spring and then the Rangers do have a cup since 94?

But that wasn't that team in their absolute prime anymore, nor was the 2016 team that lost in the finals.

08-09 through 10-11 were some bangers. The teams for several years before and at least 5-6 years after were still really good though. I'd argue they were still at peak levels in 11-12, maybe even 12-13? They laid a gigantic egg against the Blues in the first round of 2012 and I mean a gigantic one. And one problem with that 11-12 team that I'll never forget is Colin White was on that team. Colin White should have retired after Lou bought him out, be it by choice or by teams just not wanting to sign him, which happened after that year. Colin White was really bad by 2010, not sure why a contender wanted him for 2011-2012. They badly underachieved that season. That was when I really started to have it with McLellan.

Maybe the Sharks win that game 7 in the second round against LA in 2013 and that's their year? They also started that series down 2 games to 0 and kept tying it back up from there. I think the home team won every game that series. Again, they probably go out to the Hawks, who won the cup that year. But they were still a really good team in 12-13, which they underachieved that regular season yet again. Niemi actually had a pretty good season (and playoffs) that year.

 

[Bleedred]

That's fair, I don't think the Cup thing is in the back of my mind. Those Sharks teams were awesome, I'm not denying that, I just think we have a way better foundation that they did. Most of their moves were via trade where as this team is more drafting based. Maybe that's where the disconnect is for us, I like teams way more built via the draft than the trade/UFA route. Also yeah, they randomly went years of the revolving door of the winger next Joe/Patty Marleau which hurt them. It could be the Bratt/Jack situation for us but I can't see Fitz being less proactive than what Doug Wilson was for SJ in that spot.

I'd love for us to be able to find our Marleau, the way the Sharks found Thornton.

Because Jack is better than Marleau, but Marleau was the one they drafted and Thornton was the one they later acquired.

I mentioned this last week or so, but imagine us ending up with Kakko and we have the 1st and 2nd overalls from that draft, just like the Sharks had the 1st and 2nd overalls from the 97 draft in Thornton and Marleau? That would be crazy.

I think Kakko will be good when he gets that change of scenery, but they'd never send him here for that reason.

 

[devilsblood]

All I know is I’m going to be very pissed off if we move on from Kahkonen and he plays well somewhere else. He’s been respectable outside of the hellhole that is SJ. Sure he hasn’t been a proven 1A, but why can’t he be? Markstrom wasn’t a reliable 1 until he was 28. Kahkonen is turning 28.

Kahkonen going to Boston and seamlessly replacing Ulmark is my call.

 

[Bleedred]

Kahkonen going to Boston and seamlessly replacing Ulmark is my call.

I could definitely see Kahkonen ending up in Boston.

I doubt he'll play nearly as much as Ullmark or even as much as Swayman has played the last couple of years, barring a Swayman injury. I think Swayman will be starting more games than he has in his career next year, as long as Ullmark is out and maybe even if Ullmark stays.

But you'd think they need to purge Ullmark, just to clear cap, especially with the raise Swayman will be getting. And Kahkonen would be pretty cheap. I'm not sure if the Bruins have an AHL guy that's ready to break into the league. I'm trying to think of who played this year when Ullmark was injured? Or they just rode Swayman heavy.

EDIT - Looks like nobody played a second in goal for the Bruins this year other than those two. I do know Ullmark was out for a little though.

 

[Devs3cups]

Let’s be clear. If the team is not a contender this year Fitz is going to be gone at the end of it. You can’t 3 out of 4 underperforming seasons as a GM and hold on to our job. Especially when two of those season ended up a full 20 points below expectations (granted the season between went the other direction).

I’m a big Fitz guy, I love his thinking and I think it’d be a mistake to get rid of him, but I see where you’re coming from. My breaking point would probably be after the 2025-2026 season if some significant progress isn’t made.

 

[Patrik26]

Way too early still to tell if Nico will be a career Devil, who knows what happens in 10-12 years from now? But I'm very confident he'll still be a Devil on his next contract.

He does seem to be the most pissed off out of anybody about the losing (that's a good thing) but I'm supremely confident he stays and I think we'll definitely be on the right track by the time we extend him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's extended by July 2nd of 2026.

People complained about that contract at the time it was signed, but the only thing I wish is that it was a year longer, because it's proven to be a pretty good deal.


He was back here by 2018-2019 I'm pretty sure.

He was. He was over in Sweden for the Global Series. We met him a couple of times over there.

 

[devilsblood]

Let’s be clear. If the team is not a contender this year Fitz is going to be gone at the end of it. You can’t 3 out of 4 underperforming seasons as a GM and hold on to our job. Especially when two of those season ended up a full 20 points below expectations (granted the season between went the other direction).

He just needs us to make the playoffs.

The Keefe hire probably buy's Fitz a 2 year buffer though.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Askarov most likely isn't even available barring a massive overpay, which might be a more insane thing to do then to overpay someone who has had NHL success.

 

[britdevil]

Askarov most likely isn't even available barring a massive overpay, which might be a more insane thing to do then to overpay someone who has had NHL success.

Saw an interesting post from a Preds fan about keeping both Saros and Askarov.

They likened the situation to when they had Rinne and brought along Saros.

Lucky f***ers. We've been spinning plates since Marty retired. Poor Cory too, guy was ELITE behind some horrible rosters.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Saw an interesting post from a Preds fan about keeping both Saros and Askarov.

They likened the situation to when they had Rinne and brought along Saros.

Lucky f***ers. We've been spinning plates since Marty retired. Poor Cory too, guy was ELITE behind some horrible rosters.

Them and the Rangers have been blessed by the hockey gods in that regard. And we got hockey karma for destroying Cory, lol.

 

[britdevil]

Daws and Schmid are still ludicrously young for goalies. I am hopeful that one of them can become a starter.

Not likely to ever be a top 10 goalie, but who knows. Goaltending is silly and I hate it.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Saw an interesting post from a Preds fan about keeping both Saros and Askarov.

They likened the situation to when they had Rinne and brought along Saros.

Lucky f***ers. We've been spinning plates since Marty retired. Poor Cory too, guy was ELITE behind some horrible rosters.

This only works for them if Askarov is cool with it. Is he really cool sitting on the bench only getting ~25 starts a year and not earning any real money?

With Rinne, the end was clearly in sight for him. Saros just turned 29 and there's no obvious reason he can't start at least 4-6 more years. I don't have an answer, but just assuming that your goalie is fine with getting Ahonen'd for years is quite the assumption.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah I can't see a world where Nashville keeps both, why wouldn't they also use Saros to get more offensive help while assuming that Askarov can play just as well as Saros did? Trotz has been burned for the past 5-7 years as a coach/GM where his teams have had tremendous goaltending but no one can put the puck in the net on the skater side, it's probably wearing thin on him now