Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Bcap88]

Draft picks are literally very much like money.

It is in fact very easy to break them up, it's called trading down.

NJD doesn't have a late 2024 1st, yes. That doesn't mean we need to go all the way up to 10th overall.

You can literally use a protected 2025 1st if you want in place of a late 1st.

They also never lose value until a pick is made.

It’s probably the only asset that won’t depreciate over time

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

they will? What's done this offseason will go a long way toward determining that. People here make the 10th pick sound like it's top 5 or even top 3. Any player they draft at 10 is years away at best. That's if they even make it. Meanwhile, how do you solve the holes on the roster? The roster is too thin to trade current nhl ready players to fill the holes they have. And make no mistake, they NEED to win now. They cannot have another season like last year. If they had more recent success then maybe but not making the playoffs for the 11th time in 13 years would be a disaster. I'm not saying 10 should be used straight up in a trade but you can't keep it and hope to fill the holes. They have serious needs.

Uh, your post is agreeing what what I said but it has quite a negative impression. Strange...

Anyways, if they aren't consistently making the playoffs within the next few years, we have bigger problems. Forgive me for being optimistic about that part.

Assume a similar maybe slightly better season average? He will absolutely be asking and looking for 11 minimum. Cap will he high enough by then where more players will making 10+

Even with this supposed big cap rise, I'm not comfortable giving him 11 mil. That's insane.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Coleman's contract isn't THAT bad given what he provides, which is everything. Obviously his age is a concern, but he just put together a career year.

Man I f***ing miss him. Easiest guy to root for.

He legitimately is the type of player this team needs kind of badly.

The contract isn't ideal, but you would have to at least entertain the idea depending on price.

 

[JrFischer54]

Uh, your post is agreeing what what I said but it has quite a negative impression. Strange...

Anyways, if they aren't consistently making the playoffs within the next few years, we have bigger problems. Forgive me for being optimistic about that part.



Even with this supposed big cap rise, I'm not comfortable giving him 11 mil. That's insane.

That’s going to be the going rate. Wait til you see what jack gets if he stays healthy

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

why are we talking about what Nico or Jack's NEXT contracts will be? lol some of you guys are obsessed with the salary cap, its weird.

Acquire and pay good players. Do not overpay for middling FAs or old/expiring contracts in a trade. It is very simple.

 

[JrFischer54]

why are we talking about what Nico or Jack's NEXT contracts will be? lol some of you guys are obsessed with the salary cap, its weird.

Acquire and pay good players. Do not overpay for middling FAs or old/expiring contracts in a trade. It is very simple.

There’s one thing discussing it and another worrying about it like hmmmmm I dunno

 

[Lou Bloom]

10th overall should not be involved in a goalie trade. Saros and Ullmark only have 1 year left on their contracts, no rental goalie is worth a top 10 pick and considering how quickly goalies can fall off a cliff performance wise giving them an extension past 30 is incredibly risky. A deal around a protected 2025 1st is reasonable for either.

For Markstrom I'd offer Holtz + 2nd round pick take it or leave it. Any team taking on Markstrom at his age is already taking on a ton of risk, offering anything of real substance on top of that is too much.

If none of those teams are willing to make realistic deals then you move on and go cheaper on goalie and focus your assets on making the skater group as strong as possible.

 

[Triumph]

The problem with trading 10 for e.g. Ullmark is that Boston really does not have anything else to send back to us, as they have no picks in the first 3 rounds this year and they don't have their 2nd next year. Maybe a lottery protected pick swap in one of the next 2 years or Boston trades us a 2026 2nd and a 2026 3rd, something like that, but I don't think they would want to tie up that many picks to get #10, which they probably don't really have interest in anyway.

A 2025 lottery protected 1st will not get the Devils anything worthwhile unless there aren't any other bidders.

 

[JrFischer54]

10th overall should not be involved in a goalie trade. Saros and Ullmark only have 1 year left on their contracts, no rental goalie is worth a top 10 pick and considering how quickly goalies can fall off a cliff performance wise giving them an extension past 30 is incredibly risky. A deal around a protected 2025 1st is reasonable for either.

For Markstrom I'd offer Holtz + 2nd round pick take it or leave it. Any team taking on Markstrom at his age is already taking on a ton of risk, offering anything of real substance on top of that is too much.

If none of those teams are willing to make realistic deals then you move on and go cheaper on goalie and focus your assets on making the skater group as strong as possible.

I rather have holtz and the 2nd over the 10

Fitz went the cheap route a couple times already I doubt he can survive another time. Not to mention the team if a cheap goalie fix implodes again regardless how good you make the team

 

[Dylan9z9]

We need a much more established goalie than a guy that’s played 3 games if we’re sending that pick away.

We sent one pick higher away for Cory Schneider. Cory Schneider was already a top goalie in the NHL. Askarov is not. Not yet at least.

I thought Askarov was the next Igor .... I think they trade Soros before him

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

He legitimately is the type of player this team needs kind of badly.

The contract isn't ideal, but you would have to at least entertain the idea depending on price.

Coleman would probably be back if Palat wasn't here, I'd probably put money on that too. The Devils spent a first rounder on Chase Stillman right after they traded Pickles. The management loved him and probably loved him too much to a fault that they burned on a first on his finding future replacement.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I rather have holtz and the 2nd over the 10

Fitz went the cheap route a couple times already I doubt he can survive another time. Not to mention the team if a cheap goalie fix implodes again regardless how good you make the team

That's an insane take to prefer Holtz and a 2nd over 10th overall.

Goalie is a volatile position whether you go cheap or not. Grubauer in Seattle, Kuemper in Washington, Jarry in Pittsburgh, Campbell in Edmonton, Husso in Detroit, Korpisalo in Ottawa, Merzlikins in Columbus, Gibson in Anaheim, all of those teams are regretting those contracts. Carey Price was the best goalie in the NHL and signed an extension at 29, if it wasn't for LTIR that contract would be a disaster.

We've seen teams make the playoffs consistently without spending on goaltending. Carolina, Vegas, Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado with Georgiev. There's more than one way to build a roster, pouring your assets into your forwards and defense and going cheaper on goalie is also a valid team building strategy.

 

[JrFischer54]

That's an insane take to prefer Holtz and a 2nd over 10th overall.

Goalie is a volatile position whether you go cheap or not. Grubauer in Seattle, Kuemper in Washington, Jarry in Pittsburgh, Campbell in Edmonton, Husso in Detroit, Korpisalo in Ottawa, Merzlikins in Columbus, Gibson in Anaheim, all of those teams are regretting those contracts. Carey Price was the best goalie in the NHL and signed an extension at 29, if it wasn't for LTIR that contract would be a disaster.

We've seen teams make the playoffs consistently without spending on goaltending. Carolina, Vegas, Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado with Georgiev. There's more than one way to build a roster, pouring your assets into your forwards and defense and going cheaper on goalie is also a valid team building strategy.

Yeah those are great examples there’s also examples of cheap goalies costing teams a ton not to mention the goalies you mentioned costing their teams in the playoffs.

Holtz isn’t going to move the needle on any type of return I rather keep him and hope Sheldon can squeeze something out of him offensively and help the team today then some kid that won’t see the nhl for 3 years. The 10 for goalie or something else is way more valuable to this team then keeping it and drafting a player.

 

[Lou Bloom]

The problem with trading 10 for e.g. Ullmark is that Boston really does not have anything else to send back to us, as they have no picks in the first 3 rounds this year and they don't have their 2nd next year. Maybe a lottery protected pick swap in one of the next 2 years or Boston trades us a 2026 2nd and a 2026 3rd, something like that, but I don't think they would want to tie up that many picks to get #10, which they probably don't really have interest in anyway.

A 2025 lottery protected 1st will not get the Devils anything worthwhile unless there aren't any other bidders.

There's much more of a precedent of good goalies being traded for late 1st round or equivalent talent than being traded for a top 10 pick. Doesn't mean that those teams would deal those goalies for that price but it makes sense for the Devils to hold firm on that price than try and overpay for a goalie.

 

[JrFischer54]

There's much more of a precedent of good goalies being traded for late 1st round or equivalent talent than being traded for a top 10 pick. Doesn't mean that those teams would deal those goalies for that price but it makes sense for the Devils to hold firm on that price than try and overpay for a goalie.

I totally agree with you but face it goaltending cost us in the playoffs two years ago cost us last season. We going to go for the trifecta of cheap goaltending and see if third time is a charm? I’m not saying I want them to trade it straight up for a goalie but I’ll understand if they do. You can’t just keep punting an obvious problem with quick cheap fixes.

 

[My3Sons]

Those types of players are hardly ever available and would cost way more than a 10 to get them. It’s also bad asset management to not use your biggest chip that won’t take away from the current on ice talent and only help them.

No brainer for me trade the pick.

Ok fine MTL offers Josh Anderson. Trade the pick.

 

[JrFischer54]

Ok fine MTL offers Josh Anderson. Trade the pick.

Smh

 

[My3Sons]

Smh

So ante up. Who does NJ get with pick 10? Fitz said in the interview nothing good has been offered yet and teams are well aware it’s on the block.

 

[JrFischer54]

So ante up. Who does NJ get with pick 10? Fitz said in the interview nothing good has been offered yet and teams are well aware it’s on the block.

not sure I mean team has holes all over the place that would be nice to plug but realistically I doubt a deal does get done for anything and they keep the pick. I don’t think they should but that’s my guess what ends up happening.

Like Fitz said he has to be blown away by an offer or something like that. Same goes for trots saying about saros or insert any gm for any trade.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Yeah those are great examples there’s also examples of cheap goalies costing teams a ton not to mention the goalies you mentioned costing their teams in the playoffs.

There's also examples of teams going cheap on depth talent and costing them and having that cost them in the playoffs. It's a salary cap league, you're going to have to take risks and go cheap somewhere on the roster.

Holtz isn’t going to move the needle on any type of return I rather keep him and hope Sheldon can squeeze something out of him offensively and help the team today then some kid that won’t see the nhl for 3 years. The 10 for goalie or something else is way more valuable to this team then keeping it and drafting a player.

That's extremely short sighted thinking, how important are Wyatt Johnston, Thomas Harley and Logan Stankoven this season and moving forward for Dallas? Three players that were drafted after Dallas made the playoffs in 2019. Imagine where they'd be if they used the same thought process of not caring about drafting players because they're contenders now and don't care about what happens three years from now. What if the Oilers traded their 2018 1st round pick after missing the playoffs and didn't land Evan Bouchard who's turned into an important piece on a team that just made the Stanely Cup final?

Not to mention saying "some kid that won't see the NHL for 3 years" as if we haven't seen Mercer and Bratt in recent years come in and make an impact after 1 season post draft (not even including Jack, Nico, Nemec and Luke since they were all top 5 picks).

I totally agree with you but face it goaltending cost us in the playoffs two years ago cost us last season. We going to go for the trifecta of cheap goaltending and see if third time is a charm? I’m not saying I want them to trade it straight up for a goalie but I’ll understand if they do. You can’t just keep punting an obvious problem with quick cheap fixes.

Goaltending was just part of the problem. The entire roster underperformed last season, putting the blame solely on goaltender is ignoring the actual reason the team missed the playoffs last season.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I was simply saying I wanted Coleman back, I never implied we should use the 10OA for him.

What a kerfuffle it caused…

 

[Forge]

The problem with trading 10 for e.g. Ullmark is that Boston really does not have anything else to send back to us, as they have no picks in the first 3 rounds this year and they don't have their 2nd next year. Maybe a lottery protected pick swap in one of the next 2 years or Boston trades us a 2026 2nd and a 2026 3rd, something like that, but I don't think they would want to tie up that many picks to get #10, which they probably don't really have interest in anyway.

A 2025 lottery protected 1st will not get the Devils anything worthwhile unless there aren't any other bidders.

A 25 protected first is a pretty reasonable return for ullmark who will likely be able to pick his destination.

Same for markstrom who can

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Obviously Flames would have to retain some on a Coleman trade

I don’t think Coleman is that much overpaid. Even if he regress to be a 20 goal 40 point winger that PK’s. That player is probably still work around his current salary.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Would everyone here be comfortable in an Allen-Askarov pairing for next season? I think Saros is off the table with the recent Trotz comments about extending him, but Askarov could be in play.

I would be. I don’t think we are a starting goaltender away from winning the cup, not with our young D core that another year or two of development. I would rather back Askarov potential to become a number one with some veteran help in Jake Allen (and a new goalie coach!).

Markstrom just doesn’t fit the team timeline. I’ll be OK with Ullmark too, but he needs to be extended which can’t be done before the draft.

 

[SKNJD9]

Would everyone here be comfortable in an Allen-Askarov pairing for next season? I think Saros is off the table with the recent Trotz comments about extending him, but Askarov could be in play.

I would be. I don’t think we are a starting goaltender away from winning the cup, not with our young D core that another year or two of development. I would rather back Askarov potential to become a number one with some veteran help in Jake Allen (and a new goalie coach!).

Markstrom just doesn’t fit the team timeline. I’ll be OK with Ullmark too, but he needs to be extended which can’t be done before the draft.

I would kill for Askarov 10+Holtz or Casey no problem, I do think Trotz's comments though is just gamesmanship. I can't see them choosing Saros over Askarov long term, unless their offers for Askarov are astronomical.