Devils 2021 training camp thread (news, notes and speculation) - Part III [MOD warning in OP]

[MauDevils]

Insanely tough decision. I really don't want to start the clock on their contracts if we end up as a bubble team or worse.

But it's also deflating to send them down when they clearly played well enough to make the team.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I disagree here, I think while Mercer almost guaranteed himself a roster spot with those two games, Holtz hasn't shown much besides his lethal shot, he wasn't awful but I think that at this point he should start in AHL (there are still some games left though as you said).

Holtz would get absolutely caved in a third line role

His only worth to the team right now is his shot; he does not possess a strong enough game away from the puck to warrant sliding a year of his ELC to have him play some of the lowest ES minutes and PP

If he makes it and stick then awesome, But I very much doubt he even gets a nine game trial.

Sorry but Holtz has shown he has more than just a shot. He’s a really smart player who makes smart passes and knows where to go to get offensive opportunities. The best goal scorers don’t just score because they have good shots. They know where to go to get opportunities and find the open space. Even though Holtz didn’t have a huge impact in the game last night that was something I noticed about him on countless occasions. He’s always in good spots where he can be dangerous and when he gets it he’s either using his dangerous shot or good vision. He’s also shown that he can keep up with NHL players and isn’t a liability IMO.

If Holtz is good enough to play in the NHL this year and have an impact then he should be in the NHL. There’s no reason to send him to the AHL if he can play in the NHL. It’s early but so far he looks really good.

 

[Hisch13r]

Making some nice passes doesnt get you an NHL stay

Mercer is being seen as a lock because he has an NHL game; offensively, defensively, and in transition he has shown remarkable ability

Holtz is all offense and nothing else at the moment; when has he stripped someone and gone the other way? When has he gotten into a shot blocking situation? When has he bodied someone off the puck and gotten it out?

Holtz biggest knock since draft way was that he is all offense; he didnt just magically learn that part of his game in 10 AHL games and a week of training camp

He literally broke up a transition and turned it into a 2 on 1 the other way against Washington earlier on in the same shift he scored on...

 

[Hisch13r]

Sorry but Holtz has shown he has more than just a shot. He’s a really smart player who makes smart passes and knows where to go to get offensive opportunities. The best goal scorers don’t just score because they have good shots. They know where to go to get opportunities and find the open space. Even though Holtz didn’t have a huge impact in the game last night that was something I noticed about him on countless occasions. He’s always in good spots where he can be dangerous and when he gets it he’s either using his dangerous shot or good vision. He’s also shown that he can keep up with NHL players and isn’t a liability IMO.

Nah he's obviously nothing more than a Reid Boucher at this point in time

 

[britdevil]

Here is my suggestion...I thought I saw a little chemistry between Zacha and Tatar last night...one game...but I think I saw something

Sharangovich-Hughes-Holtz
Kuokkanen-Hischier-Bratt
Tatar-Mercer-Zacha
Johnsson-Mcleod-Wood

I like it. I think Vesey takes Johnsson's spot though. We can use his size and PK ability.

 

[JimEIV]

It sounds fine until Holtz is like a lost puppy without the puck in the ozone. and a third line role isnt grinders anymore but its also almost always fundamentally sound defensive players

I think hes much better served scoring PPG and some impressive goal totals with 1st line minutes then scoring a point every 5-6 games while he plays very low ES minutes.

Dawson, on the other hand, has looked impressive even away from the puck (and always has, back to draft day) while Alex has always had questions about his defense and game away from the puck (outside if his effort, he certainly tries)

If Holtz is lost like a puppy, it's very easy to send him down with specific instructions on what he needs to work on...giving him a taste of the big time shouldn't hurt anything.

But I agree with you...there is a high likelihood that he will struggle in certain aspects of the game it just has to be managed well.

 

[Hisch13r]

I like it. I think Vesey takes Johnsson's spot though. We can use his size and PK ability.

One game but I liked Thompson last night and wouldn't mind giving him a shot either. It's a 4th line wing so I'm fine with that spot constantly being open unless someone shows they're head and shoulders above the rest

 

[HyperX]

Sorry but Holtz has shown he has more than just a shot. He’s a really smart player who makes smart passes and knows where to go to get offensive opportunities. The best goal scorers don’t just score because they have good shots. They know where to go to get opportunities and find the open space. Even though Holtz didn’t have a huge impact in the game last night that was something I noticed about him on countless occasions. He’s always in good spots where he can be dangerous and when he gets it he’s either using his dangerous shot or good vision. He’s also shown that he can keep up with NHL players and isn’t a liability IMO.

You dont think hes a liability cause its two preseason games

Absolutely no one is questioning Holtz offensive capabilities. But if someone is telling me theyve seen something from him in the other two aspects of the game (transition and defense) then I wholeheartedly disagree and would love to see evidence of that

By game 45-50 Holtz would not only already be moving slower as he inches towards the rookie wall, but hed be getting eaten alive 5v5

 

[Hisch13r]

If Holtz is lost like a puppy, it's very easy to sending him down with specific instructions on what he needs to work on...giving him a taste of the big time shouldn't hurt anything.

But I agree with you...there is a high likelihood that he will struggle in certain aspects of the game it just has to be managed well.

And in a 3rd line role with a guy who is offensively talented, defensively responsible and can drive play like Mercer along with another defensively competent winger who is a good playmaker in Kuokkanen that's a place where you can shelter him a bit at 5v5 if that's needed and you let him do his damage on the PP

 

[HyperX]

If Holtz is lost like a puppy, it's very easy to send him down with specific instructions on what he needs to work on...giving him a taste of the big time shouldn't hurt anything.

But I agree with you...there is a high likelihood that he will struggle in certain aspects of the game it just has to be managed well.

Im fine with Holtz getting his nine games, by the way. I just dont think they will because he simply wont develop that part of his game that quickly, and Im willing to bet they understand that and dont want to tease him with the idea of making it

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You dont think hes a liability cause its two preseason games

Absolutely no one is questioning Holtz offensive capabilities. But if someone is telling me theyve seen something from him in the other two aspects of the game (transition and defense) then I wholeheartedly disagree and would love to see evidence of that

By game 45-50 Holtz would not only already be moving slower as he inches towards the rookie wall, but hed be getting eaten alive 5v5

From the 2 games we’ve seen because that’s all we have to go on atm he has been more than fine defensively and in transition. He hasn’t been a liability defensively and he’s made lots of good plays in transition including a really nice pass that led to a goal.

So far he hasn’t struggled at 5v5 at all. If he starts to struggle at some point like you are assuming he will then he can always be sent down.

Also he doesn’t need to do something special in defence or transition to be an impact player. His impact is always going to be in the offensive end. He hasn’t had any problems in the dzone or in transition at all and has been good in the ozone.
Thats the player we drafted and what we can most likely expect from him going forward.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I agree with Jim. If/when Holtz hits a wall its easy to just send him to Utica with instructions

I see little reason to deny him some NHL games right now.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If Holtz is going to play with Hughes, he’s going to spend so much time in the offensive zone. His shot should outweigh his defensive shortcomings with how often Jack is going to set him up.

 

[Hisch13r]

From the 2 games we’ve seen because that’s all we have to go on atm he has been more than fine defensively and in transition. He hasn’t been a liability defensively and he’s made lots of good plays in transition including a really nice pass that led to a goal.

So far he hasn’t struggled at 5v5 at all. If he starts to struggle at some point like you are assuming he will then he can always be sent down.

Also he doesn’t need to do something special in defence or transition to be an impact player. His impact is always going to be in the offensive end. He hasn’t had any problems in the dzone or in transition at all and has been good in the ozone.
Thats the player we drafted and what we can most likely expect from him going forward.

The idea that's he's some scorer who just completely floats around is so overblown because that's generally the archetype people think of when it comes to snipers. He's not good defensively yet and might never be but he hasn't looked completely awful or out of place either

 

[HyperX]

From the 2 games we’ve seen because that’s all we have to go on atm he has been more than fine defensively and in transition. He hasn’t been a liability defensively and he’s made lots of good plays in transition including a really nice pass that led to a goal.

So far he hasn’t struggled at 5v5 at all. If he starts to struggle at some point like you are assuming he will then he can always be sent down.

Also he doesn’t need to do something special in defence or transition to be an impact player. His impact is always going to be in the offensive end. He hasn’t had any problems in the dzone or in transition at all and has been good in the ozone.
Thats the player we drafted and what we can most likely expect from him going forward.

Preseason games are notorious for a lack of 5v5 pressure, and tend to be a lot of odd man breaks and powerplays (the league specifically calls more in the preseason as to establish trends for calls and teams get PP/PK work)

This isnt just about what hes done in preseason and training camp. His entire body of work from the season we drafted him shows he needs work away from the puck; but all of a sudden hes gotten that to passable levels in the offseason away from the ice?

I seriously doubt it and Im willing to bet coaching sees that (and it would be evident by him not getting a nine game stint)

I dont want to make it seem like I would be upset with Holtz making it; but some of you are overplaying how well he has done.

Mercer is the only rookie who has shown hes a lock

 

[HyperX]

The idea that's he's some scorer who just completely floats around is so overblown because that's generally the archetype people think of when it comes to snipers. He's not good defensively yet but he hasn't looked completely awful either

because thats exactly what his draft profile is, take out the 'floating around' part

Alexander Holtz is not some two-way player and never has been. Idk why were fabricating stuff now. He has 100% always been seen as an offense-first player

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Preseason games are notorious for a lack of 5v5 pressure, and tend to be a lot of odd man breaks and powerplays (the league specifically calls more in the preseason as to establish trends for calls and teams get PP/PK work)

This isnt just about what hes done in preseason and training camp. His entire body of work from the season we drafted him shows he needs work away from the puck; but all of a sudden hes gotten that to passable levels in the offseason away from the ice?

I seriously doubt it and Im willing to bet coaching sees that (and it would be evident by him not getting a nine game stint)

I dont want to make it seem like I would be upset with Holtz making it; but some of you are overplaying how well he has done.

Mercer is the only rookie who has shown hes a lock

It doesn’t matter what he showed in his draft season. Although I don’t even remember that ever being some big issue.

He’s been more than passable so far in those areas. If at some point he starts struggling like you are assuming he will to the point where it outweighs what he brings offensively than it is very easy to send him down.

I don’t think either of Mercer or Holtz are a lock after two preaseason games. If both them continue to play the way they have I think they both have a very good chance of making it

 

[Captain3rdLine]

because thats exactly what his draft profile is, take out the 'floating around' part

Alexander Holtz is not some two-way player and never has been. Idk why were fabricating stuff now. He has 100% always been seen as an offense-first player

Being an offensive first player doesn’t come with the assumption that he’s a liability defensively and floats around.

 

[Camille the Eel]

One game but I liked Thompson last night and wouldn't mind giving him a shot either. It's a 4th line wing so I'm fine with that spot constantly being open unless someone shows they're head and shoulders above the rest

Has he put on some weight and muscle? His brother in Buffalo is a big dude.

 

[Hisch13r]

Has he put on some weight and muscle? His brother in Buffalo is a big dude.

He said 13 pounds

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Has he put on some weight and muscle? His brother in Buffalo is a big dude.

He said he put on 13lbs of mostly muscle

 

[HyperX]

This is nothing but preseason hype

Holtz has never been a two way player but all of a sudden he should be okay away from the puck at 5v5 in the NHL after less than 12 games on NA ice

A major leap of faith that I think is nothing but faith. But hey, hopefully Im wrong

 

[Hisch13r]

He said he put on 13lbs of mostly muscle

Which is just lol. I always love when athletes say that because it's nowhere most or all of it being muscle

 

[RSeen]

I think it is a bit much to expect Holtz to be able to handle top line minutes and play against top competition as well. I'd rather let him continue to develop in the minors and round out his game.

 

[Hisch13r]