Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[SteveCangialosi123]

Okay, and I think given the evidence, that's an absolutely ludicrous opinion, so I think I'll just agree to disagree on this one and hope youre right

Weren’t you Mr. Math the other day talking about probability and randomness and all that? I’d love to hear how you can draw the correlation between a leg break, coronavirus, and a sinus fracture, but I’m getting tired of this conversation.

 

[Lou is God]

I would prefer if Jack plays really well on his own and drove palmieri to be better tho rather than saying if palmieri plays well Jack will get more points with him and look better.

Oh FFS, he is playing well on his own, stop with this narrative he's having a bad season based on this rut, even when he wasn't producing points he was clearly producing opportunities and was tops in the team in this category AND by far.

This shit some of you are spewing is way out of control.

 

[Derps]

Weren’t you Mr. Math the other day talking about probability and randomness and all that? I’d love to hear how you can draw the correlation between a leg break, coronavirus, and a sinus fracture, but I’m getting tired of this conversation.

I was talking about the complications of advanced stats and why people should spend energy looking at what goes into them.

Like I said, there is ample evidence out there to suggest that past injury is a good predictor of future injury. And it doesn't just have to do with chronic injuries like back pain. You can do your own research on that if you want to.

For example, breaking a leg absolutely affects your chances of reinjuring your leg.

 

[MauDevils]

Sure. He's injured.

Not through any fault of his own, though.

Well if he didn't jump the poor guy doesn't even miss a shift.

 

[glenwo2]

Well if he didn't jump the poor guy doesn't even miss a shift.

I don't recall. He jumped?

 

[Bleedred]

Space Junk Johnsson - 1 point in his last 13 games and 7 in 26 games this season. 13 game goal drought. Not anywhere near good enough.

Palmieri - 3 points in his last 13 games. 1 goal in his last 14 games.

This is just unacceptably bad.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Oh FFS, he is playing well on his own, stop with this narrative he's having a bad season based on this rut, even when he wasn't producing points he was clearly producing opportunities and was tops in the team in this category AND by far.

This shit some of you are spewing is way out of control.

Why do some here refuse to acknowledge that after just the 3rd game of the season Hughes is producing at a 29 point pace- about the same as last year. 88% of the season is more than a “rut.” He’s simply not getting it done. Yes, he’s looked better than last year, but eventually he needs to produce no matter who is in the ice.

It’s certainly a stretch to say Hughes is playing actively “well” at this point.

 

[TrufleShufle]

It can be true but it really isn't.

Injury-prone has always referred to chronic-injuries, not freak accidents like getting the puck in the face and breaking your sinus-whatever.

But apparently we got a bunch of Chicken Littles shouting that the sky is falling and their opinion is fact so what can you do?

Or it can be true and someone simply saying the phrase "injury prone" getting characterized as saying the sky is falling is what is making this debate go on for 6 pages.

Both things can be true, but if one side says the other thinks Nico will never go more than 3 games without getting hurt and one side says the other thinks Nico has never actually even been hurt, this will never end and turn into a shit show every time.

I still have hope this board will one day have discussions on what is actually said rather than replying to "thoughts" the other side has to make arguments easier, or the famous "So what you are saying is...." which is 100% of the time followed by something that was never said.

Edit before post. This isn't just at you Glen, but the board over all whenever things aren't going well.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

All we really care about is the future in this discussion. Do you think Nico is more likely to be injured based on the injuries he's gotten so far this year? I think the leg injury is worrisome on that front, and the rumored concussion of course is worrisome as well. The sinus fracture I don't understand enough but seems like a full recovery is possible.

 

[MauDevils]

I don't recall. He jumped?

Nevermind. He jumped a little trying not to block the shot, but that puck was going under his visor no matter what.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Oh FFS, he is playing well on his own, stop with this narrative he's having a bad season based on this rut, even when he wasn't producing points he was clearly producing opportunities and was tops in the team in this category AND by far.

This shit some of you are spewing is way out of control.

For Jack Hughes to be playing well he has to be producing points. He’s not producing as many chances as you’re saying either. A couple decent chances a game. He is a strictly offensive player who is a turnover machine and is literally always looking for offense, loves fly-by’s in the d-zone and loves to blow the zone when he thinks we might get the puck. When you play the way he does you better put up some points.

 

[Lou is God]

Why do some here refuse to acknowledge that after just the 3rd game of the season Hughes is producing at a 29 point pace- about the same as last year. 88% of the season is more than a “rut.” He’s simply not getting it done. Yes, he’s looked better than last year, but eventually he needs to produce no matter who is in the ice.

It’s certainly a stretch to say Hughes is playing actively “well” at this point.

The "rut" I'm referring to is the past few games, hence my comment that even when he wasn't producing points he was producing opportunities, even when the scoring took a hit he was still one of the best or the best player on the ice for us. Just recently the producing opportunities has taken a hit.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

We gave this guy a long term deal???

 

[guitarguyvic]

There is no precise definition of “injury prone”...do you guys think that phrase can be looked up in the dictionary, or that the league has it codified somewhere? How absurd. It’s a label generally attributed to players who have a history of getting injured frequently. Some people may use it more liberally than others. Conveniently, it’s suddenly being used much more conservatively when talking about Nico than when it’s been thrown around for other players of other teams. Must just be a coincidence!

Durability. That’s a word with an actual specific definition we should all be able to agree on. And there’s nothing unreasonable with being concerned about Nico’s.

Of course that require objectively assessing each player without significant bias. So naturally the majority of this board is outraged at the mere suggestion.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Is this a hypothetical line-up for 2021-22?

I don't see Gusev or Zajac back with the team. I think Maltsev will be the third-line center next season, he's looked very good. I also see Kuokkanen sticking in the line-up, he's also done an admirable job all year long slotting all over the line up. I'm going to repeat -- without making it the point -- that I feel Johnsson will be bought out or traded with some salary retained over the off-season. We also have to keep in mind that -- no guarantees of course -- Mercer, Foote and Holtz will also be vying for line-up slots next season.

Here's my guess for the line-up, barring of course trades and/or UFA signings:

Zacha-Hischier-Bratt
Sharangovich-Hughes-Mercer
Wood-Maltsev-Kuokkanen
Foote-McLeod-Bastian

No offense Steven but if that’s what our roster looks like next year, we’re fighting for another top #5 pick.

That is a horrible set of forwards to be competing with at the NHL level and the fact that you didn’t even bother to throw up our d pairings is pretty telling. We have prospects and that’s great but we need proven talent to get the best out of our prospects because judging by the 2021-22 roster listed above, I think we have an even worst team then we do now.

Not crapping on your roster because you’re just going based off what we have, I’m just saying that we can’t head into 2021-22 with what you’ve listed.

 

[Nocashstyle]

The "rut" I'm referring to is the past few games, hence my comment that even when he wasn't producing points he was producing opportunities, even when the scoring took a hit he was still one of the best or the best player on the ice for us. Just recently the producing opportunities has taken a hit.

I agree with that. The immediate 10 games or so after the COVID break he optically was controlling shifts but the production wasn’t there. Now the production still isn’t there and he’s not playing particularly well either. I’m not saying the sky is falling, but I am beginning to get a little concerned. From a leaderboard perspective, his numbers look better just because they’re skewed from his hot 6 point start in the first 3 games. After that he’s had just 8 points. He deserves some criticism now whether we want to admit it or not.

 

[britdevil]

Fitz has to go and make trades.

Get rid of the deadwood first. Then bring in some talent at the draft/free agency. Time to start spending.

 

[Lou is God]

No offense Steven but if that’s what our roster looks like next year, we’re fighting for another top #5 pick.

That is a horrible set of forwards to be competing with at the NHL level and the fact that you didn’t even bother to throw up our d pairings is pretty telling. We have prospects and that’s great but we need proven talent to get the best out of our prospects because judging by the 2021-22 roster listed above, I think we have an even worst team then we do now.

Not crapping on your roster because you’re just going based off what we have, I’m just saying that we can’t head into 2021-22 with what you’ve listed.

Wait a minute, the forward lines Steve listed you're calling horrible?? You know how many f***ing kids are in that lineup?

Holy shit!

 

[Captain3rdLine]

No offense Steven but if that’s what our roster looks like next year, we’re fighting for another top #5 pick.

That is a horrible set of forwards to be competing with at the NHL level and the fact that you didn’t even bother to throw up our d pairings is pretty telling. We have prospects and that’s great but we need proven talent to get the best out of our prospects because judging by the 2021-22 roster listed above, I think we have an even worst team then we do now.

Not crapping on your roster because you’re just going based off what we have, I’m just saying that we can’t head into 2021-22 with what you’ve listed.

Your not wrong but neither is he. The reality is we’re not gonna be good next year either. I’m guessing there will be atleast one or two new additions upfront tho through trade or free agency that you can add to that lineup however.

 

[MartyOwns]

There is no precise definition of “injury prone”...do you guys think that phrase can be looked up in the dictionary, or that the league has it codified somewhere? How absurd.

i understand your point, but there is actually a definition for it (as an idiom, at least)

Injury-prone | Definition of Injury-prone by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)

it means frequently injured. often sustaining injuries. it has nothing to do with how freaky the injuries are, it means a player who gets injured often, and so it is not outlandish to say nico is injury prone. this is the craziest debate of all time

 

[Lou is God]

I agree with that. The immediate 10 games or so after the COVID break he optically was controlling shifts but the production wasn’t there. Now the production still isn’t there and he’s not playing particularly well either. I’m not saying the sky is falling, but I am beginning to get a little concerned. From a leaderboard perspective, his numbers look better just because they’re skewed from his hot 6 point start in the first 3 games. After that he’s had just 8 points. He deserves some criticism now whether we want to admit it or not.

But he's also been stuck recently with Johnsson as one of his linemates who is not even a top 6 forward for most other teams and really shouldn't be one for us.

 

[The Devil In I]

No offense Steven but if that’s what our roster looks like next year, we’re fighting for another top #5 pick.

That is a horrible set of forwards to be competing with at the NHL level and the fact that you didn’t even bother to throw up our d pairings is pretty telling. We have prospects and that’s great but we need proven talent to get the best out of our prospects because judging by the 2021-22 roster listed above, I think we have an even worst team then we do now.

Not crapping on your roster because you’re just going based off what we have, I’m just saying that we can’t head into 2021-22 with what you’ve listed.

Eh the projection of the team next year relies heavily on improvements from Nico and Hughes, way more than it does anything else. Picking up some 40-45 point veteran winger won't make near as much a difference than it will if we have two lines with 50+ point centers. If they don't make improvements we'll be horrible either way.

 

[Nocashstyle]

But he's also been stuck recently with Johnsson as one of his linemates who is not even a top 6 forward for most other teams and really shouldn't be one for us.

Yeah but that’s what I’m getting at. The line mate excuse can only get us so far. At the end of the day, if the team is going to build their offense around Hughes as an elite player, elite players produce no matter who is on the ice. And it’s not like his wingers are Cam Janssen and Eric Boulton. Johansson was able to produce playing with skilled players in the past.

Yes, Hughes is young and there’s some middle ground between understanding he’s still learning and expecting him to produce. But even with that in mind, 8 points in 23 games getting top line minutes is completely underwhelming, especially with what we saw he is capable of at the beginning of the year.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

But he's also been stuck recently with Johnsson as one of his linemates who is not even a top 6 forward for most other teams and really shouldn't be one for us.

Agree that Johnsson is not a top 6 forward. We don’t exactly have much in terms of top 6 forwards tho and if he was good enough to play on a line with Austin Matthews(which he did quite a bit from my recollection), than he’s good enough to play with Jack Hughes. someone like a Patrick Laine would be better obviously but we don’t have anyone like that.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Wait a minute, the forward lines Steve listed you're calling horrible?? You know how many f***ing kids are in that lineup?

Holy shit!

I can read a birth certificate... doesn’t change the fact that it’s a horrendous lineup. Are we spending money to win games or have the youngest lineup in the league?