Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[Lou is God]

The bolded statement is where I just scratch my head at the pure homerism. There can be “no doubt”? Based on what? He hasn’t proven jack shit. He may still because he’s 19, but to say there’s no doubt about it? Also how do you define “very good”? Dainus Zubrus was a very good player for us...if Jack maxed out at similar production we are not going to be winning more games than losing anytime soon.

What I notice is that there’s very little honest discussion of what’s actually happening in the present. Everything in the present is either dismissed by some excuse unrelated to the player himself or is deflected to talk about the future.

I hope Jack becomes the kind of player that can turn the fortunes of this team (ie live up the expectations of a 1st OA). But what I’ve seen from him so far, last year and presently, doesn’t give me “no doubt” that he will. And I honestly have no idea how anyone can objectively make a statement of such confidence.

Based what I've seen and what I'm seeing and I agree, there is very little honest discussion when people just look at stats without proper context as is being done here.

 

[Nocashstyle]

RNH is a much bigger commitment than Boyle, I think that a player like him may get 7 years even in a COVID era. A terrific player but the risk would also be there.

He wouldn’t come cheap either. I’d love him on the Devils and I think even at 7 years his game will age pretty nicely, but with Hughes, Smith, Zacha, Sevo, etc...due for raises in the next 2 or 3 seasons, RNH’s contract could become an issue depending on price. I’d definitely say he’s would be a “nice to have,” but not necessary at all costs.

 

[Lou is God]

Hughes has struggled a bit the past 2-3 weeks to get points up and has had some bad puck luck and even WITH That he has increased his points per game like 75% since last year. What did you expect him to be this year, exactly? How many 19 year old players not named McDavid actually go out there and totally dominate games?

Did you expect Hughes to be a ppg player at 19 years old, on this shitty roster? Maybe thats your own fault?

I wish I could give this more than one like.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Hughes has struggled a bit the past 2-3 weeks to get points up and has had some bad puck luck and even WITH That he has increased his points per game like 75% since last year. What did you expect him to be this year, exactly? How many 19 year old players not named McDavid actually go out there and totally dominate games?

Did you expect Hughes to be a ppg player at 19 years old, on this shitty roster? Maybe thats your own fault?

Take away the first 3 games of the season and that is nowhere near true.

 

[Blackjack]

I really like the idea of UFA Ryan Nugget-Hopkins as the Devils 3C and top LW on the 1PP. But there's sure to be a ton of competition for him, he's a really terrific player.

Thoughts on Philip Danault, Brandon Saad, Blake Coleman, Mikael Granlund? No top line guys here, but good two-way second line forwards.

I think you're right about Hall, but he'd be foolish not to consider coming back. With two elite young centers, one of the best young goaltenders in the league and a strong supporting cast, he could play a big role on a contending team for years.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Take away the first 3 games of the season and that is nowhere near true.

doesn't work like that. All the points count.

and by the way, that is without even taking into account the Covid aspect and 4 games/week with basically no practice, either.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

oh dear God enough with the Taylor Hall stuff

lets move on. We don't want him anymore. He is a shell of his former self.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Based what I've seen and what I'm seeing and I agree, there is very little honest discussion when people just look at stats without proper context as is being done here.

Even “in the proper context” there’s not a plethora of evidence that indicates there’s “no doubt” he will live up to expectations, as you’re suggesting.

 

[StevenToddIves]

RNH is a much bigger commitment than Boyle, I think that a player like him may get 7 years even in a COVID era. A terrific player but the risk would also be there.

Haha, just spitballin'!

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Oh, I believe the Devils will acquire a top 6 winger this off-season, whether by trade or UFA. But I'm just going with the players the Devils already have, minus the players they will likely lose (Palmieri, Zajac, Gusev) or likely try to lose (Johnsson).

Looking at the 2021 UFA list, there are no easy answers. Landeskog is very likely to stay in Colorado. I don't see Hall coming back. Nugent-Hopkins is an interesting candidate. The under-the-radar name which appealed to me most was Jaden Schwartz. I also like the idea of getting a young RFA from a team with cap issues like Jakub Vrana. Vancouver also strikes me as a team for the Devils to watch -- they already have cap issues and Pettersson is a RFA. Maybe they'd be willing to part with a guy like JT Miller in the right deal?

Those are all solid options but we have to add size and in our top #6 as well. A guy like Anderson would’ve been ideal alongside Hughes or Hischier but we went for Johnsson instead. JT Miller would be a real solid addition but if I was in their shoes, I’d give up assets to get rid of their brutal contracts instead of giving up one of the guys that makes my top line click. If Landeskog actually hits the market, I’d give him the keys to the bank. His leadership, toughness and offensive abilities would mesh real well with Jack or Nico.

I know you’re a prospect guy but with the cap space we have, I wanted to ask you if you think it’s time to sacrifice a little future for immediate help. Now by immediate help, I’m talking about guys that are younger then 25 years of age. If Eichel can be had, I’d send Buffalo and offer. If Laine is on the block, why not? If Steve Y is looking to reunite Raymond and Holtz, can Mantha be a player we’d target in return?

When is collecting picks and building the prospect pool enough? We have to get our kids in a winning environment and adding 17-18 year old kids isn’t going to help Hischier, Bratt, Hughes, Blackwood, Smith, etc in 2, 3 or 4 years from now.

 

[Lou is God]

Even “in the proper context” there’s not a plethora of evidence that indicates there’s “no doubt” he will live up to expectations, as you’re suggesting.

There is no doubt in my mind, what do you want to tell you? And it's not homerism as you try to paint it since I haven't felt this way about a prospect of ours since Zach Parise.

 

[Nocashstyle]

doesn't work like that. All the points count.

and by the way, that is without even taking into account the Covid aspect and 4 games/week with basically no practice, either.

At some point, those three games become outliers when 88% of the rest of the season his production has been sub 29 point pace.

You really want to rest your laurels on “all points count?”

I don’t understand how anyone could be arguing that there are no concerns to be seen here:

Games 1 to 3: 6 points
Games 4 to 26: 8 points

 

[Devils731]

Take away the first 3 games of the season and that is nowhere near true.

Why would I do that any more than take away the last 3 games?

 

[StevenToddIves]

Thoughts on Philip Danault, Brandon Saad, Blake Coleman, Mikael Granlund? No top line guys here, but good two-way second line forwards.

I think you're right about Hall, but he'd be foolish not to consider coming back. With two elite young centers, one of the best young goaltenders in the league and a strong supporting cast, he could play a big role on a contending team for years.

Saad = no. Compete level hasn't been there since he started making the big bucks.

Granlund = no. Pretty good two ways, but does not move the needle and doesn't give us what we need stylistically -- a power forward to win battles down low and crash the crease for dirty goals.

Danault = one of the most underrated defensive centers in the league, but everything I hear says he wants to stay in Montreal.

Coleman = I have a difficult time writing his name without smiling. I love this guy. I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

 

[NJDevs26]

There is no doubt in my mind, what do you want to tell you? And it's not homerism as you try to paint it since I haven't felt this way about a prospect of ours since Zach Parise.

While there is a certain amount of homerism baked into most discussions of under 25 players here, I agree not every positive opinion needs to just be blindly labeled as such. Nor do I even think a certain amount of homerism is a bad thing, cripes I hate the fact I’m so pessimistic about the organization right now and blasé about actually watching games but that’s what extended losing with no light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon does to a fan base.

 

[Lou is God]

At some point, those three games become outliers when 88% of the rest of the season his production has been sub 29 point pace.

You really want to rest you laurels on “all points count?”

I don’t understand how anyone could be arguing that there are no concerns to be seen here:

Games 1 to 3: 6 points
Games 4 to 26: 8 points

He lost an assist to a bogus penalty in a Rangers game and don't forget the nice goal last week (or two weeks) ago that was called off on a hand pass. Add that to the good number of assists he should have if we could finish just a fraction of the scoring chances he has created.

And do wonder if the recent drop in play from him is a result of him pressing because our inability to bury the biscuit is getting to him.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Why would I do that any more than take away the last 3 games?

What a silly response. Because the establishing trend is that those 6 points in the first 3 games are outliers. But sure, go ahead and take away his last three games. Still a 32 point pace. Still proving my point.

I’m not saying I don’t think Hughes will become elite. It’s just pretty ridiculous that for some you’re not even allow to utter anything remotely critical of Hughes regardless of the facts at hand. Yeah he’s young, yeah his linemates stink, yeah covid, the schedule, etc... at the end of the day, he’s still playing top line minutes for this team. He is not immune from criticism.

 

[Devils731]

And do wonder if the recent drop in play from him is a result of him pressing

I don’t know the reason why but I do think he is pressing. He’s gotten a little ahead of the play at times recently and I think that’s him trying to create something out of nothing.

Him pressing isn’t the worst thing long term, he will learn which plays he can get away with and which he can’t, but it does hurt in the short term.

Also, Hughes is playing slightly slower as the season has become an immense grind but everyone else is playing even slower. Wood, Hughes, and sometimes Bratt are the only 2 people that seem to still have some legs left. For a team, and player, whose offense lives off the rush, that’s devastating.

 

[Triumph]

The bolded statement is where I just scratch my head at the pure homerism. There can be “no doubt”? Based on what? He hasn’t proven jack shit. He may still because he’s 19, but to say there’s no doubt about it? Also how do you define “very good”? Dainus Zubrus was a very good player for us...if Jack maxed out at similar production we are not going to be winning more games than losing anytime soon.

What I notice is that there’s very little honest discussion of what’s actually happening in the present. Everything in the present is either dismissed by some excuse unrelated to the player himself or is deflected to talk about the future.

I hope Jack becomes the kind of player that can turn the fortunes of this team (ie live up the expectations of a 1st OA). But what I’ve seen from him so far, last year and presently, doesn’t give me “no doubt” that he will. And I honestly have no idea how anyone can objectively make a statement of such confidence.

I'll say it again - I don't know how anyone is confident saying anything about the play of this season. What Jack has gone through this season he will almost certainly never go through again, and that goes for all of the Devils players - they will never have to stop down in the middle of the season for 2 weeks while most of the team is sick, and then pick back up playing 4 games a week, every week. So that's why I'm not saying a whole lot about anyone's play at present - nobody looks like they're at their peak except maybe Kuokkanen and Sharangovich, and they seem to be getting some quite favorable bounces.

 

[Lou is God]

While there is a certain amount of homerism baked into most discussions of under 25 players here, I agree not every positive opinion needs to just be blindly labeled as such. Nor do I even think a certain amount of homerism is a bad thing, cripes I hate the fact I’m so pessimistic about the organization right now and blasé about actually watching games but that’s what extended losing does to a fan base.

I think that's mostly for prospects we see highlights of or hear reports of, you think oh boy, wait till he puts on a Devils uniform, yeah I agree we all can be homers UNTIL they do put that uniform on and after a while you're like ahhh crap, this prospect was nothing but fool's gold. Reality sinks in fast when you can tell that this prospect that everyone was raving about as they rose through the ranks is just at best an average hockey player.

But with Hughes we've seen his talents on the big stage and we know they're legit.

 

[glenwo2]

Wow..... have a good day.

I know, right?

 

[Triumph]

What a silly response. Because the establishing trend is that those 6 points in the first 3 games are outliers. But sure, go ahead and take away his last three games. Still a 32 point pace. Still proving my point.

I’m not saying I don’t think Hughes will become elite. It’s just pretty ridiculous that for some you’re not even allow to utter anything remotely critical of Hughes regardless of the facts at hand. Yeah he’s young, yeah his linemates stink, yeah covid, the schedule, etc... at the end of the day, he’s still playing top line minutes for this team. He is not immune from criticism.

If I just count the games where Hughes doesn't score, he looks really bad. But if I only count the games Hughes scores in, he looks great! Maybe I should try counting all of the games - since all of them count equally, why would I separate any of them - and then looking at what's going on.

 

[Devils731]

What a silly response. Because the establishing trend is that those 6 points in the first 3 games are outliers.

The first 3 games are no more outliers than the last 3 games. The first 3 games were more productive but we shouldn’t discount them because they were.

I’ll do away with the last 10 games because the season has been such a grind; I consider those outliers due to the unusual lack of rest. I doubt you’d agree that I could do that, even though I have a supporting reason for it.

 

[glenwo2]

I've posted this before, but here is the ideal "future" top 9 lineup IMO, as we stand right now...

XXX-Hughes-XXX
Zacha-Hischier-Bratt
Wood-Mercer-Kuokkanen
(4th line is whatever to me)

I think you need to find players for those few XXX slots. Obviously, you have a bunch of guys like Sharangovich, Foote, Holtz, Clarke, Thompson, etc coming up who may or may not be able to fill those roles.

Holtz? I mean I think he can be slotted as one of the XXX's.

Not so sure about the others.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the story on Hughes right now is just how much of a little kid he is physically relative to the league.

But I do think it's fair to say his season thus far has been underwhelming.