Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[SteveCangialosi123]

That is so reductionist to the point of just being idiotic.

That has not what injury prone has "always referred to."

Injury prone has always referred to “guy who you can expect to be injured frequently”. Always, across all sports. When a college running back breaks his arm before the draft in a freak play, he is not labeled an injury risk. When he has an ACL year, chronic hip issues, or spinal stenosis, he is. That’s just how it works.

There has always been a distinction between the random, freak injury and the injury that is long term concern.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I’d rather find better wingers for jack and Nico without giving up jack or Nico. When healthy, Zacha Nico and bratt is a solid line. Then we have jack with nothing. We just drafted two wingers in holtz and mercer and maybe they will be ready soon or maybe not.

Maybe we can get laine if he wants out of Columbus without giving up jack or Nico. Maybe we could trade Palmieri for Tatar and see if he would be a better fit as a stop gap while we wait for holtz and mercer and Foote.

We tried getting johnsson and that hasn’t worked out as we hoped. Id like to see sharangovich back with jack and a different winger than Palmieri like I said maybe Tatar would be a fit and both are pending ufas. I’d also like to see johnsson with zajac and Gusev on the third line.

Zacha Nico bratt
Sharangovich Hughes Tatar
Johnsson zajac gusev
Wood McLeod bastian

looks OK to me then we have maltsev and merkley for injuries or healthy scratches. This season sucks as we’ve only had a full healthy lineup for a couple games Nico being healthy would help our team out so much

Is this a hypothetical line-up for 2021-22?

I don't see Gusev or Zajac back with the team. I think Maltsev will be the third-line center next season, he's looked very good. I also see Kuokkanen sticking in the line-up, he's also done an admirable job all year long slotting all over the line up. I'm going to repeat -- without making it the point -- that I feel Johnsson will be bought out or traded with some salary retained over the off-season. We also have to keep in mind that -- no guarantees of course -- Mercer, Foote and Holtz will also be vying for line-up slots next season.

Here's my guess for the line-up, barring of course trades and/or UFA signings:

Zacha-Hischier-Bratt
Sharangovich-Hughes-Mercer
Wood-Maltsev-Kuokkanen
Foote-McLeod-Bastian

 

[glenwo2]

some of these posts...

Can the Pens/Devils game start already? Jesus...just 6 and half hours to go....

 

[britdevil]

I agree that some people here fall in love with our prospects and it's quite obvious.

It's brutal.

Absolutely every player on this team is open to criticism. None of them have done jack shit in this league and need to seriously, massively improve on the dross they are serving up.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Gotta love arguing semantics about what “injury prone” means to avoid any kind of discussion around concerns with Nico’s durability. Because him playing a style that involves recklessly going into the dirty areas (not necessarily a bad thing mind you) and reacting like he’s been hit by a Mack truck anytime he takes some heavy physical contact on the ice and missing double digit games every year...certainly none of that is enough to make you even consider it...not when it involves one of the prized young toys! Anything remotely negative about them must be attributed to randomness and/or the fault of others, and saying otherwise makes you hockey ignorant.

Peak HF.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Bottom line is that when the season starts next year, you'd be a fool to expect him to play ~82 games. Maybe he will, maybe he wont. But the evidence presented so far is that he wont.

There literally isn’t any evidence that he won’t. However, most players do miss atleast a game or two in a season.

the only reason I would be worried about Nico’s history, is if there’s a pattern of similar injuries, similar types of injuries, or similar situations that are causing the injuries. I don’t know if that’s the case because I don’t remember all of his injuries. The puck to the face one however, is just terrible luck and should not be cause for concern.

 

[LeedsMonster]

lol you guys are all re-defining 'injury prone' to fit your narrative. my cousin was injury prone as a kid, he broke a limb every year it seemed. he was injury prone. they don't have to be connected and predictive, i don't know why that's such a hard concept to understand.

but if it helps, you can call nico 'freak-injury prone' instead of injury prone.

I never said I thought he was. I'm not ready to label him as such. I was merely conceding that there were valid concerns raised and the poster is not COMPLETELY off base.

 

[Derps]

Injury prone has always referred to “guy who you can expect to be injured frequently”. Always, across all sports. When a college running back breaks his arm before the draft in a freak play, he is not labeled an injury risk. When he has an ACL year, chronic hip issues, or spinal stenosis, he is. That’s just how it works.

There has always been a distinction between the random, freak injury and the injury that is long term concern.

That's not what his definition of injury prone is. I agree with your definition.

Again, you can call it freak injuries, or injuries you dont expect to happen to the same spot again, but that's besides the point.

Do I expect Nico to be injured frequently? The answer so far given the evidence has to be yes, because he has been. This is not 1 puck to the face. This is a player who is in his 4th year who has been hurt for a large portion of 3 of those years. We would be calling any other player on any other team injury prone if that happened to them. You can stick your head in the sand and not worry about the incredible amount that he's been injured so far in his career, but Im good on that.

Injury prone has *not* just been designated to people that have one specific injury that causes issues. That is just categorically untrue no matter how many posters on this board try to parrot that.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Then let's call it like it really is : Nico just has bad luck. (He's not injury-prone)

Call it what you want, he’s not on the ice for our team because he’s injured.

 

[glenwo2]

That's not what his definition of injury prone is. I agree with your definition.

Again, you can call it freak injuries, or injuries you dont expect to happen to the same spot again, but that's besides the point.

Do I expect Nico to be injured frequently? The answer so far given the evidence has to be yes, because he has been. This is not 1 puck to the face. This is a player who is in his 4th year who has been hurt for a large portion of 3 of those years. We would be calling any other player on any other team injury prone if that happened to them. You can stick your head in the sand and not worry about the incredible amount that he's been injured so far in his career, but Im good on that.

The hell???

That's what I was referring to when I stated that.

What did you get from my explanation that was so different?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

We do care how the vets because it has a trickle down effect with the kids, if Palmieri is playing well and scoring goals from the get go while playing with Jack, guess who else is looking better? That is right - Jack! His point totals are better and probably his confidence. It's all related.

I would prefer if Jack plays really well on his own and drove palmieri to be better tho rather than saying if palmieri plays well Jack will get more points with him and look better.

 

[Nocashstyle]

This seems to have turned into a semantics argument at this point. Mike Cammalleri was injury prone in the traditional sense. Nico is not at that level.

 

[glenwo2]

Call it what you want, he’s not on the ice for our team because he’s injured.

Sure. He's injured.

Not through any fault of his own, though.

 

[BostonDevil]

You’re absolutely right, I’d rather add to Nico and Jack but that’ll be harder said then done. I am a firm believer that our losing ways in the past decade isn’t a good environment for our current players and our future players. Outside of Zajac, I don’t even know if anyone on our roster was apart of a winning team. True, we made the playoffs by the skin of our teeth in Nico’s rookie year but we were smoked out of the water by the Bolts. Outside of that ass kicking, we’ve been mediocre each and every year in the past decade.

Something has to change and it can’t continue like this for another 2, 3 or 5 years. We have to start climbing the standings or else this loser mentality will be "accepted" and that’s not something you want as an organization.

Completely agree with this - Need some players with legit NHL skills who can put the puck in the net to play with our young centers and have some success. Love the fact that Holtz is up and coming but I'm not sure we want to pin the offensive hopes of a franchise on a rookie. I'll say it again, we've built through the draft already. We have 2, #1 picks at center, and a billion other rookies and young players. It's time to add some effective vets to that drag the team forward. I would trade next year's #1 to any struggling cap team for a proven scorer to sit on a line with Jack.

 

[ninetyeight]

Nico has definitely been unlucky that’s for sure. But injuries also happen when you play hard and don’t shy away from the action. And that’s one of the reasons we love Nico, he’s the furthest away from a floater, even if he’s not having a good game it never looks like he isn’t trying.

But luck seems like a very common explanation here. Whether it’s low shooting%, hitting the posts, pucks rolling, hot goalies, freak injuries.

I’d love if we are just unlucky and soon start winning games and scoring bunch of games.

Edit: btw Merriam-Webster:
Definition of injury-prone
: frequently injured

But I’m finnish so maybe I don’t the subtleties of the english language..

 

[Azathoth]

I think I'm most impressed that the board is blowing up over Nico's durability, or alleged lack there of...and I'm pretty sure Jim had nothing to do with it this time.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

That's not what his definition of injury prone is. I agree with your definition.

Again, you can call it freak injuries, or injuries you dont expect to happen to the same spot again, but that's besides the point.

Do I expect Nico to be injured frequently? The answer so far given the evidence has to be yes, because he has been. This is not 1 puck to the face. This is a player who is in his 4th year who has been hurt for a large portion of 3 of those years. We would be calling any other player on any other team injury prone if that happened to them. You can stick your head in the sand and not worry about the incredible amount that he's been injured so far in his career, but Im good on that.

Based on what I’ve seen, I would not expect him to be injured more than any other player, no. Injuries happen sometimes, it’s a contact sport. He hasn’t had any major injuries, he doesn’t play a reckless game, we’ve literally already seen him play 82 as a teen. There really isn’t much reason to worry.

Now someone like Miles Wood, you could absolutely make the case that he will likely be injured more than the average player because of how he plays. High speed, totally reckless, and often out of control.

 

[NJDevs26]

This seems to have turned into a semantics argument at this point. Mike Cammalleri was injury prone in the traditional sense. Nico is not at that level.

It’s actually not that far off, it’s just a bit premature since Cammmalleri you could count on to play 65/82 games for a decade. Nico so far it’s two years in a row before the black cloud that was this year. If Nico has another 3-4 seasons of missing at least 20% of games then yeah he’ll become Camm like

 

[Derps]

Based on what I’ve seen, I would not expect him to be injured more than any other player, no. Injuries happen sometimes, it’s a contact sport. He hasn’t had any major injuries, he doesn’t play a reckless game, we’ve literally already seen him play 82 as a teen. There really isn’t much reason to worry.

Now someone like Miles Wood, you could absolutely make the case that he will likely be injured more than the average player because of how he plays. High speed, totally reckless, and often out of control.

Okay, and I think given the evidence, that's an absolutely ludicrous opinion, so I think I'll just agree to disagree on this one and hope youre right

 

[glenwo2]

I really have no interest in talking to you lol

Me : "Injury-prone has always referred to chronic-injuries, not freak accidents "

SteveCangialosi : "Injury prone has always referred to “guy who you can expect to be injured frequently”

Same thing.


(then don't talk nor mention me when responding to someone else and expect no reply)

 

[Derps]

Me : "Injury-prone has always referred to chronic-injuries, not freak accidents "

SteveCangialosi : "Injury prone has always referred to “guy who you can expect to be injured frequently”

Same thing.


(then don't talk nor mention me when responding to someone else and expect no reply)

Chronic injuries and expecting someone to be injured frequently are not the same thing you turtle

 

[OmNomNom]

I think I'm most impressed that the board is blowing up over Nico's durability, or alleged lack there of...and I'm pretty sure Jim had nothing to do with it this time.

he's busy on vacation with tiki drinks

 

[glenwo2]

Chronic injuries and expecting someone to be injured frequently are not the same thing you turtle

That's what I was alluding to, you goober.

Chronic injuries alluded to being injured frequently.

Steve said it in a better way which I acknowledge.

 

[Derps]

That's what I was alluding to, you goober.

No, you were pretty clear in your assessment that being injury prone meant that you needed to have some type of chronic injury.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It’s actually not that far off, it’s just a bit premature since Cammmalleri you could count on to play 65/82 games for a decade. Nico so far it’s two years in a row before the black cloud that was this year. If Nico has another 3-4 seasons of missing at least 20% of games then yeah he’ll become Camm like

Nico didn’t miss 20% of games last year or the year before. Played in 84% last year and the year before and 100% his first year. This year he’ll be well below that but it’s fair to say the deflected puck to the face is a freak accident.