Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[Guttersniped]

LOL the feeling is mutual, I’d rather forget about his tenure cause this guy was so freaking overrated by everyone including Lou, he never wanted to be here anyway and took the first opportunity to peace out after Lou and VBK spent a year plus trying to get him here. Thanks for playing Clemmensen over Weekes in 2009, **** off about everything else.

Oh come now, Sutter chose family and his “home business” over the Devils HC job and him becoming the HC of the Calgary Flames two weeks later was completely and totally unrelated to his decision to resign in NJ. And his dumb face looks like it was caught in a blender.

 

[EnglishDevil]

He’s 19. Get a grip.

He hasn't played well but he's 19 years old playing on a dumpster fire of a team and perhaps more importantly his linemates have sucked even worse than he has through this slump period.

Johnsson is a glorified 4th line / AHL scrub who contributes literally nothing every single game, he has 1 point (an assist) in his last 13 games. Bratt has also oscillated between outright terrible or completely invisible in a lot of games recently; I personally think he's just a poor stylistic fit with Hughes and that overall that line is horribly constructed, I honestly can't believe the coaching staff continues to run with it. Bratt & Hughes are clearly skilled players but they need to play on separate lines with complementary line-mates that bring something else to the table.

I'd love to see Hughes get a run with Sharangovich & Kuokkanen before judging his offensive performance too harshly, but it seems our braindead coaching staff is content to just stick with the combinations that have already failed them repeatedly and show zero signs of improving. Johnsson needs to be banished to the AHL/taxi squad, he's hot garbage. I also feel that Sharangovich & Kuokkanen have been successful recently in spite of playing with Zajac rather than because of him, although Travis has been slightly better recently. I don't get the impression their games will suddenly implode playing with a different center like Hughes, I don't really understand the coaching staffs reluctance to separate them from Zajac.

 

[Guttersniped]

I think the question is whether or not Fitz sees Wood as a core piece.

Wood is 25, a physical force, and the leading goal scorer for the team (though Zacha is catching up). Historically, power forwards can take longer to develop. That said, Wood's shooting 15% this year vs career average 9%, so perhaps there's a good bit of luck involved in Wood's results.

Still, if Wood can settle in at 11% shooting and takes 150 - 170 shots per year, that gets you 15 - 20 goals from a pretty good bottom 6 agitator.

Looking at the return for Coleman: Foote is 20 and doing fine in the AHL. But, so far it doesn't seem like he's a lock to make the Devils next year, and certainly not as a top 6 winger (NHL quality, not Devils quality). Muk is 19 and who knows if or when he makes it.

If Fitz thinks the drop off from Wood to Merkley isn't that big, then pull the trigger. Taking shot at getting a Konecny or Kempe, or even lucking into a Pastrnak is good. But the reality is that we're more likely to end up with Quenneville, Matteau, or McLeod.

His WAR improvement is in large part because the puck is going in when he's shooting it, which by and large it did not the last two seasons. His defense shows moderate improvement but it needs to be noted that WAR-type metrics don't really converge over 26 games or probably even 126 games.

I do think some aspects of his game have improved - I am not certain he is a top 9 forward on a playoff team. I definitely think that Jfresh is right that he is closer to Athanasiou than Coleman - a depth-y breakaway goal scorer who is quite poor at a lot of other stuff. But maybe he's not that, anymore. I don't know.

Wood’s chaos is unique and can be game changing since he does it by himself and it’s pretty impossible to stop. He’s also somewhat productive on the power play.

He’s also very often a disaster defensively though and he needs to be on a line with players who can cover for him to make his offense worth it. He’s also not a top six forward. For instance, putting him with Zacha is a disaster yet again as they have been on the ice for 5 goals against and zero goals for with 48 minutes 5v5.

Palmieri (who this season is for first time kind of sucking defensively) and Zacha have been on the ice and 10 goals against and 2 goals for with 112 5v5 minutes. Just to round it out, Palmieri and Wood have been on the ice for 5 goals against and 2 goals for with 55 minutes.

I know this was all about a hypothetical Wood trade but Dear Lord, Ruff needs to take the Wood-Zacha-Palmieri line behind the barn and put it out of it’s misery. It’s been 37 minutes of 5v5 ice time with zero goals for and 4 goals against.

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm really not getting the blasé attitude towards the major suckage? Seriously? It's always "the breakout will be next year", "patience", it takes time...come on already. Or some mundane stat to prove the suckage isn't really that bad or we are about to turn the corner any day now amidst a streak of winning 2 games in the last 10..

You got 4 centers on this team that we used picks #6, #11, #1 and #1 to get in 5 years... And we've gotten almost nothing out of it to date.

I'm really not sure how the fans of this team aren't demanding heads to roll?

It's always we'll get'em next time fellas like the Bad News Bears.

I’m not getting the whiney cry baby energy so I guess we’re both confused. You also seem to think there’s a player from the 2019 draft we should have drafted instead of Hughes because that player is producing better in the NHL but you never name him.

Also, you know that Shero was fired right? He was the GM and he lost his job... does any of that ring a bell? His head actually rolled.

 

[MadDevil]

Oh come now, Sutter chose family and his “home business” over the Devils HC job and him becoming the HC of the Calgary Flames two weeks later was completely and totally unrelated to his decision to resign in NJ. And his dumb face looks like it was caught in a blender.

He always reminded me of Sloth from The Goonies.

 

[Guttersniped]

He always reminded me of Sloth from The Goonies.

Harsh but fair.

 

[Nico Hischier]

@JimEIV
Leave Jack alone

 

[BurntToast]

Nico was off to a slow start but started to put up points before his injuries. He also did a lot of things well last year, like an improved F/O percentage. In my opinion, his outstanding 2 way play gives him some slack in the rope. He could score a little more, but his style is built for the playoffs.

Jack is tough. He gets the minutes like some have said, Plus, He has had opportunities with different wingers (he started the season with Rango). You can’t blame his line mates for everything. He is still very weak; weak shot, weak going to the net, weak on the boards and often once he is hit the play is dead. (He has been better defensively) I do believe the schedule hurts his style of play, the amount of games and the teams the Devils play. At least 3 teams the Devils play a heavy game Boston, Islanders, Caps. It’s tough to analyze Jack. He definitely needs to improve.

 

[JimEIV]

Jack had 12 points in 26 games last season he has 14 points through 26 games this season....but this season he leads the team in ice time.

Last season he averaged a very respectful 15:52, this season 19:10. He's played with just about every winger on the team at one point or another and to my recollection most of those wingers have played better away from him...at least that's been the case with Sharangovich who's production dramatically increased away from Jack.

So from my perspective there has been no progress from Jack from last year...there has been zero increase in production from Hischier in 4 years...it's ironic that he's only played 5 games but still is exactly where he always is in points per game.

At the end of this year we'll have 6 seasons from two #1OA's. 2 from Jack and 4 from Nico.... everyone will dismiss this season out of hand for its uniqueness but the reality of it, it will just be another excuse in a long line of excuses all wrapped up with supporting "underlying numbers" for the lack of progress.

 

[Billdo]

Maybe I value intangibles and two-way play too much but I really couldn't be much happier with Nico. He works his ass off, makes players around him better and clearly his team and the Org think he has great leadership qualities. He has become a play driver and has improved his finishing ability. Call me a homer but if he had Marchand and Pasta on his wings you would be looking at the next Bergeron who I personally has been a top 10 player in this league for the better part of a decade. Flame on naysayers

This is all true, I think it can be both true and a bit of a disappointment at the same time though.

Jack is clearly slumping, but this is a bizzare season so I am not holding it against him.

Nico has played all of 5 games this year, which sucks, but it's not his fault.

All valid.

 

[Billdo]

Where are your Lou picks/trades? Oh, that's right, outside of Zajac, he didn't put a soul into the system. But everything is everyone else's fault afterwards.

So shortsighted. Sooooooo shortsighted.

Aren't Wood, Blackwood, and Zacha products of Lou?

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

Jack Hughes looks so talented and quite often he is unlucky. Eventually something will click because it is obvious he has great hands, gets passes off fast, and has excellent vision.

I don't get it though, but I also didn't get Pavel Zacha and all of a sudden he looks great. Looks and plays like a different player.

 

[ninetyeight]

It really doesn't help Nico's development that he can't seem to play a full season without injuries (excluding his rookie season, which was great).

I don't know if he's injury prone or extremely unlucky. He looked great the the two games before this recent injury. Every time he's starting to figure it out and get his mojo back, he gets injured and has to start from scratch. If he could just play one season healthy and have his linemates (Bratt Zacha) healthy, I'm positive he'd exceed most expectations, even from Devils fans.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

I get it but why do guys need to be traded for him to have a real chance? We have Gusev and Johnsson literally doing nothing and we're going to miss the playoffs again. Time to see what we have here in Merkley.

We have to build up their value by playing them, unfortunate as that is.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Anyone that claims there’s been “no progress” in Jack’s game from last year either doesn’t actually watch the games, or is straight up trolling.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

It really doesn't help Nico's development that he can't seem to play a full season without injuries (excluding his rookie season, which was great).

I don't know if he's injury prone or extremely unlucky. He looked great the the two games before this recent injury. Every time he's starting to figure it out and get his mojo back, he gets injured and has to start from scratch. If he could just play one season healthy and have his linemates (Bratt Zacha) healthy, I'm positive he'd exceed most expectations, even from Devils fans.

*Sigh*

Ffs he got his face shattered by a damn puck. I’d certainly say that falls in the unlucky category more than “injury prone” wouldn’t you?

 

[JimEIV]

It's a pretty simple equation...

More Goals For than Against = more wins. More goals + more wins = Progress. Almost everything else in the discussion is a distraction.

The problem with this team, and has been for 8 of the last 9 years is the players responsible for providing the boost in goals haven't been doing an adequate job.

When your best players are producing at .6 PPG or less you're not going to win much and those players deserve the most scrutinization.

 

[JimEIV]

Anyone that claims there’s been “no progress” in Jack’s game from last year either doesn’t actually watch the games, or is straight up trolling.

You mean he looks better scoring less per 60 minutes this season than last year? Ok, he looks fabulous scoring less. What does that get us?

 

[SJinNewJersey]

If we dealt Woods and the prospect we got back didn't need to be protected, that would allow us to keep another of the young guys. Also we can expose Johnsson, which would be fine. Interesting.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

You mean he looks better scoring less per 60 minutes this season than last year? Ok, he looks fabulous scoring less. What does that get us?

He could be scoring a PPG right now, and it wouldn’t “get us” anywhere. The team is awful. He looks much better than he did his first year though, which is the most important thing. And we saw a nice stretch early on of the star player he has the ability to be.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Anyone that claims there’s been “no progress” in Jack’s game from last year either doesn’t actually watch the games, or is straight up trolling.

What specifically has progressed in his game?

Things looked promising in the first dozen games or so. Then he went back to trying to puck handle unsuccessfully through 3 defenders at the blue line, sucking along the boards, not getting quality sog, not managing the puck properly, and getting knocked down if an opposing player even so much as breathes on him. And of course, his point production is back to where it was last year despite having a larger role.

So...what areas of his game have progressed?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Jack had 12 points in 26 games last season he has 14 points through 26 games this season....but this season he leads the team in ice time.

Last season he averaged a very respectful 15:52, this season 19:10. He's played with just about every winger on the team at one point or another and to my recollection most of those wingers have played better away from him...at least that's been the case with Sharangovich who's production dramatically increased away from Jack.

So from my perspective there has been no progress from Jack from last year...there has been zero increase in production from Hischier in 4 years...it's ironic that he's only played 5 games but still is exactly where he always is in points per game.

At the end of this year we'll have 6 seasons from two #1OA's. 2 from Jack and 4 from Nico.... everyone will dismiss this season out of hand for its uniqueness but the reality of it, it will just be another excuse in a long line of excuses all wrapped up with supporting "underlying numbers" for the lack of progress.

To be fair to Hischier, he came back from injury right into the lineup and had a few tough games and clearly needed a few games to get up to speed. those last two games were two of the best games I’ve seen him play and he had 2 goals and 3 points in them. It’s stupid to say he is producing at the same rate in those five games when he clearly wasn’t close too game ready when he came back. I agree that Jack has been very underwhelming and people here like to ignore that and pretend he’s a changed man.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I would totally be up for trading Hughes and or Hischier or anyone else on this team. I honestly think it would be tough to trade Nico with his price tag to performance ratio though. I'd trade them both for Eichel at the drop of a hat.
Trading players for futures is bullshit though...it leaves you in this constant state of sucking waiting for a better day that never comes.

I think the new ownership sucks the most and have been responsible for a constant flow of bad decisions that have drive us deeper into this losing culture ...nothing can be done there unfortunately. Maybe someone can let them know that they don't anything about hockey?

Completely agree with your first sentence. As much as I love Nico, I’d move him to get a legit winger for Hughes. I’ve said this several times now but you can’t have your #1 overall pick, who’s the best offensive forward on your team, play alongside dumpster fire wingers and that’s exactly what management has given him for his first 2 years in the show.

We jumped the gun on giving Nico the captaincy. He was out for months, we were in a really bad spot standing wise and now, we’ve labeled a NTC by making him our captain. With that said, we will never accomplish anything with two centers that have no support whatsoever. We don’t have a Sid/Gino combo or McJesus/Draisaitl in Nico/Jack... we just don’t.

Would I move Nico for an elite sniper that has a chance to win the Rocket Richard trophy when playing alongside Hughes, ABSOLUTELY! We need balance up and down our lineup cause this roster is very poorly built. We have a cast of pass first forwards and our blue line is loaded with "offensive minded" dmen that lack any type of physicality. We have to be the softest team to play against, not just in our division but the entire league. A can just imagine the opposing team looking at our top offensive line and saying "Nice, we’re playing against the Johnsson-Hughes-Bratt line tonight!" That has to be the smallest and softest top line in hockey.

 

[Lou is God]

What specifically has progressed in his game?

Things looked promising in the first dozen games or so. Then he went back to trying to puck handle unsuccessfully through 3 defenders at the blue line, sucking along the boards, not getting quality sog, not managing the puck properly, and getting knocked down if an opposing player even so much as breathes on him. And of course, his point production is back to where it was last year despite having a larger role.

So...what areas of his game have progressed?

His confidence and creating scoring chances for his linemates who can't finish, he's also much stronger with the puck and his defense is also improved.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Completely agree with your first sentence. As much as I love Nico, I’d move him to get a legit winger for Hughes. I’ve said this several times now but you can’t have your #1 overall pick, who’s the best offensive forward on your team, play alongside dumpster fire wingers and that’s exactly what management has given him for his first 2 years in the show.

We jumped the gun on giving Nico the captaincy. He was out for months, we were in a really bad spot standing wise and now, we’ve labeled a NTC by making him our captain. With that said, we will never accomplish anything with two centers that have no support whatsoever. We don’t have a Sid/Gino combo or McJesus/Draisaitl in Nico/Jack... we just don’t.

Would I move Nico for an elite sniper that has a chance to win the Rocket Richard trophy when playing alongside Hughes, ABSOLUTELY!

Nico has been better than Jack at every point in his career and looked better offensively in those last two games than I’ve ever seen him. Jack had a hot start but has been producing terribly since then. Nico is also a much more well-rounded player and isn’t a turnover machine. I don’t know why people are assuming that trading our best player and #1 center for a top sniper is gonna make Jack a better player and way better producer. We have multiple players playing with the same dumpster fire wingers who have more assists than Hughes. What makes him our best offensive player. I’d easily put Nico ahead of him and Zacha’s play this year too.