Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[NjDevsRR]

7 points in his first 5 games and 7 points in his last 21 games... that's just disgusting.

7 points in his last 21 games is .33 points per game or 27 point pace over 82 while averaging 19:10 a game.

This is not progress. That is a disgrace.

 

[glenwo2]

If we got a price like that for Wood we should do that in a heartbeat

1st rounder and a good prospect FOR WOOD?

Damn. It would be a "hard thing" to pass up.

 

[glenwo2]

Well isn't that ironic.

Anyway, everyone knows Jim's schtick by now.

If he's not complaining about Hughes, then either he's asleep or...well....he has to be asleep then.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

1st rounder and a good prospect FOR WOOD?

Damn. It would be a "hard thing" to pass up.

Amirov + 1st

 

[My3Sons]

I mean I don't think Jim is entirely wrong. For first overalls they've both been pretty disappointing. Having two of them makes it worse. I am not however totally on board with the doom and gloom approach but you cannot honestly say you've been enamored with either at each point in their careers. Just bad years to get 1st overall with no Mathews, McDavid, etc type players. They're both going to be long time NHLers but I don't think either is going to be an all time great. Which is fine, if not a little disappointing.

It’s typically not what you say but how you say it

 

[tailfins]

Given the context of our team, I would much rather have Foote and Mukhamadullin than Coleman. What are we gonna miss the playoffs by 12 points rather than 15 points with Coleman?

I think the question is whether or not Fitz sees Wood as a core piece.

Wood is 25, a physical force, and the leading goal scorer for the team (though Zacha is catching up). Historically, power forwards can take longer to develop. That said, Wood's shooting 15% this year vs career average 9%, so perhaps there's a good bit of luck involved in Wood's results.

Still, if Wood can settle in at 11% shooting and takes 150 - 170 shots per year, that gets you 15 - 20 goals from a pretty good bottom 6 agitator.

Looking at the return for Coleman: Foote is 20 and doing fine in the AHL. But, so far it doesn't seem like he's a lock to make the Devils next year, and certainly not as a top 6 winger (NHL quality, not Devils quality). Muk is 19 and who knows if or when he makes it.

If Fitz thinks the drop off from Wood to Merkley isn't that big, then pull the trigger. Taking shot at getting a Konecny or Kempe, or even lucking into a Pastrnak is good. But the reality is that we're more likely to end up with Quenneville, Matteau, or McLeod.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I think the question is whether or not Fitz sees Wood as a core piece.

Wood is 25, a physical force, and the leading goal scorer for the team (though Zacha is catching up). Historically, power forwards can take longer to develop. That said, Wood's shooting 15% this year vs career average 9%, so perhaps there's a good bit of luck involved in Wood's results.

Still, if Wood can settle in at 11% shooting and takes 150 - 170 shots per year, that gets you 15 - 20 goals from a pretty good bottom 6 agitator.

Looking at the return for Coleman: Foote is 20 and doing fine in the AHL. But, so far it doesn't seem like he's a lock to make the Devils next year, and certainly not as a top 6 winger (NHL quality, not Devils quality). Muk is 19 and who knows if or when he makes it.

If Fitz thinks the drop off from Wood to Merkley isn't that big, then pull the trigger. Taking shot at getting a Konecny or Kempe, or even lucking into a Pastrnak is good. But the reality is that we're more likely to end up with Quenneville, Matteau, or McLeod.

I LOLd when I read that. We need to make that distinction when posting in the future.

 

[RSeen]

I think the question is whether or not Fitz sees Wood as a core piece.

Wood is 25, a physical force, and the leading goal scorer for the team (though Zacha is catching up). Historically, power forwards can take longer to develop. That said, Wood's shooting 15% this year vs career average 9%, so perhaps there's a good bit of luck involved in Wood's results.

Still, if Wood can settle in at 11% shooting and takes 150 - 170 shots per year, that gets you 15 - 20 goals from a pretty good bottom 6 agitator.

Looking at the return for Coleman: Foote is 20 and doing fine in the AHL. But, so far it doesn't seem like he's a lock to make the Devils next year, and certainly not as a top 6 winger (NHL quality, not Devils quality). Muk is 19 and who knows if or when he makes it.

If Fitz thinks the drop off from Wood to Merkley isn't that big, then pull the trigger. Taking shot at getting a Konecny or Kempe, or even lucking into a Pastrnak is good. But the reality is that we're more likely to end up with Quenneville, Matteau, or McLeod.

I highly doubt Wood is a 11% shooter on average. He takes more outside shots than anyone...

To be honest, I'd be fine with trading Wood for a decent return. His value is at its peak and he is overachieving.

 

[My3Sons]

I highly doubt Wood is a 11% shooter on average. He takes more outside shots than anyone...

To be honest, I'd be fine with trading Wood for a decent return. His value is at its peak and he is overachieving.

I think Wood can be with the team for another 5-6 years. I don’t see anyone breaking the bank for him as a UFA and with the cap staying flat or stunted for another three or four years he probably gets a good deal from NJ after next season if he plays well. I’m all for trading expiring UFAs the team doesn’t see germane for the future but I’d also like to start developing better support for Nico and Jack. It’s a balance and I understand that some don’t see Wood in that capacity.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It's not really about the two young centers. It's about who drafted them. Why it keeps getting brought up.

 

[TheDuke93]

I think Wood can be with the team for another 5-6 years. I don’t see anyone breaking the bank for him as a UFA and with the CPA staying flat or stunted for another three or four years he probably gets a good deal from NJ after next season if he plays well. I’m all for trading expiring UFAs the team doesn’t see germane for the future but I’d also like to start developing better support for Nico and Jack. It’s a balance and I understand that some don’t see Wood in that capacity.

I agree with this sentiment as well, Wood is unique and fills a very specific niche on any team. However we have had our prospect pool so depleted for so long overstocking the cabinets would be a welcomed approach from me.

 

[Billdo]

It’s typically not what you say but how you say it

He is a cunning linguist that's for sure.

 

[Billdo]

Wasn't bad at all. Both will be franchise corner stones for years to come.

Development isn't the same for every kid.

I agree. I just think you can agree with that and acknowledge that as of right now they both may be a bit underwhelming. Regardless I do agree that they'll be fine.

 

[blink]

Once Palms and Gusev are dealt he will get his chance.

I get it but why do guys need to be traded for him to have a real chance? We have Gusev and Johnsson literally doing nothing and we're going to miss the playoffs again. Time to see what we have here in Merkley.

 

[TheDuke93]

I agree. I just think you can agree with that and acknowledge that as of right now they both may be a bit underwhelming. Regardless I do agree that they'll be fine.

Maybe I value intangibles and two-way play too much but I really couldn't be much happier with Nico. He works his ass off, makes players around him better and clearly his team and the Org think he has great leadership qualities. He has become a play driver and has improved his finishing ability. Call me a homer but if he had Marchand and Pasta on his wings you would be looking at the next Bergeron who I personally has been a top 10 player in this league for the better part of a decade. Flame on naysayers

 

[Forge]

If we can get a good deal for wood, I'm all in. It's take Amirov straight up. You don't even need to throw me the pick lol.

 

[Derps]

Maybe I value intangibles and two-way play too much but I really couldn't be much happier with Nico. He works his ass off, makes players around him better and clearly his team and the Org think he has great leadership qualities. He has become a play driver and has improved his finishing ability. Call me a homer but if he had Marchand and Pasta on his wings you would be looking at the next Bergeron who I personally has been a top 10 player in this league for the better part of a decade. Flame on naysayers

I get it, but I think it's also pretty important for 1st overall pick centers to be involved in scoring plays a lot and he hasn't really done that yet. Skill set is there to be a high end 2C, but he absolutely needs to take a step forward in his game and I dont think it's unreasonable going into next year to demand a way better player than we've seen the first 3+ years.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I agree. I just think you can agree with that and acknowledge that as of right now they both may be a bit underwhelming. Regardless I do agree that they'll be fine.

Jack is clearly slumping, but this is a bizzare season so I am not holding it against him.

Nico has played all of 5 games this year, which sucks, but it's not his fault.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That's an expensive return for Wood. I think you have to consider it if a team actually offered it.

I don't think any team will for a variety of reasons and I wouldn't trade Wood for less.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I would totally trade wood for a good deal. I like him but I like him when we play him in his role on the 4th line. Lots of time we play him up the lineup and I don’t like seeing him on a line with Hughes or Zacha. We also play him on the power play and he does OK there as a net front presence.

 

[Blackjack]

This is why I would capitalize on Wood’s value for the right offer.

If you look closely at those charts, JFresh is, for reasons we can probably guess, taking a three year snapshot of Wood and Coleman and comparing them.

I don't need to remind anyone here how bad Wood was for the last couple of years. Look at the upper right corner of Wood's graphic, it shows massive improvement this year, and his WAR percentile is pretty much equal to Coleman's this year, and -- most importantly -- not far from where Coleman's was when he fetched so much that the player and pick are now simply referred to as "The Coleman Package".

Now, JFresh could have chosen to point out that Wood's massive improvement this year is probably driving a lot of the trade interest, but he chose to let the red and blue squares just sit there suggestively.

 

[Derps]

If you look closely at those charts, JFresh is, for reasons we can probably guess, taking a three year snapshot of Wood and Coleman and comparing them.

I don't need to remind anyone here how bad Wood was for the last couple of years. Look at the upper right corner of Wood's graphic, it shows massive improvement this year, and his WAR percentile is pretty much equal to Coleman's this year, and -- most importantly -- not far from where Coleman's was when he fetched so much that the player and pick are now simply referred to as "The Coleman Package".

Now, JFresh could have chosen to point out that Wood's massive improvement this year is probably driving a lot of the trade interest, but he chose to let the red and blue squares just sit there suggestively.

It looks like a WAR percentile difference of about 20 between where Wood's is now and where Coleman's was at in 19-20. 60% vs 80%. At least that's about what I gather from the chart. I wouldn't exactly call that "not far."

That's not to say Wood wouldn't get a good return or even an equal return. All it takes is one dumb GM and there are more than one in the NHL. He's also younger and, as you said, showing large signs of improvement.

 

[Triumph]

If you look closely at those charts, JFresh is, for reasons we can probably guess, taking a three year snapshot of Wood and Coleman and comparing them.

I don't need to remind anyone here how bad Wood was for the last couple of years. Look at the upper right corner of Wood's graphic, it shows massive improvement this year, and his WAR percentile is pretty much equal to Coleman's this year, and -- most importantly -- not far from where Coleman's was when he fetched so much that the player and pick are now simply referred to as "The Coleman Package".

Now, JFresh could have chosen to point out that Wood's massive improvement this year is probably driving a lot of the trade interest, but he chose to let the red and blue squares just sit there suggestively.

His WAR improvement is in large part because the puck is going in when he's shooting it, which by and large it did not the last two seasons. His defense shows moderate improvement but it needs to be noted that WAR-type metrics don't really converge over 26 games or probably even 126 games.

I do think some aspects of his game have improved - I am not certain he is a top 9 forward on a playoff team. I definitely think that Jfresh is right that he is closer to Athanasiou than Coleman - a depth-y breakaway goal scorer who is quite poor at a lot of other stuff. But maybe he's not that, anymore. I don't know.

 

[JimEIV]

It's not really about the two young centers. It's about who drafted them. Why it keeps getting brought up.

This is what it is about...a #1 center averaging more ice time than any forward... he's actually averaging more ice time than Murray....producing like a 4th liner...only Johnsson and Busty Mcleod have been worse.

Points in the last 10 games
Zajac 8
Sharangovich 7
Kuokkanen 6
Bratt 5
Zacha 4
Wood 4
Gusev 4
Palmieri 3
Maltsev 3
Bastian 2
Hughes 2 * highest ATOI forward
Johnsson 1
Mcleod 1

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

This is what it is about...a #1 center averaging more ice time than any forward... he's actually averaging more ice time than Murray....producing like a 4th liner...only Johnsson and Busty Mcleod have been worse.

Points in the last 10 games
Zajac 8
Sharangovich 7
Kuokkanen 6
Bratt 5
Zacha 4
Wood 4
Gusev 4
Palmieri 3
Maltsev 3
Bastian 2
Hughes 2 * highest ATOI forward
Johnsson 1
Mcleod 1

This is what’s wrong with going solely off points. Anyone that thinks Palmieri or Gusev has played better than Jack during that span should have their head examined. Hughes continues to draw penalties at a higher rate than anyone else on the team (and hasn’t taken a single one himself), and is always receiving the other team’s full attention. There was a play against Buffalo last game where Hughes entered the zone with the puck (alone ofc) and he instantly had 3 Sabres on top of him because nobody fears his line mates right now. At least not when he’s with Palmieri and Johnsson.