Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

[Tao Jersey Jones]

 

[devilsblood]

I know the league has some parameters as to how many players have to be available before a game is ppd.

But how far down the goalie depth chart do you have to go before a game is ppd for goalie covid reasons?

 

[Guttersniped]

They are probably trying to avoid canceling games unless they absolutely have to, given how many already need to be made up later. But I can't see how they wouldn't consider this a must-cancel situation, given that we literally can't fill our bench with the correct number of forwards, and we'll need to raid our ECHL team for a goalie.

The fact that the Islanders haven’t played in forever will probably mean Lou wants this game.

I assume they cancel games more because new cases keep happening too, if there’s obviously an outbreak it’s a bit ridiculous to keep everyone together all the time.

The NHL doesn’t particularly care if you’re playing with a disadvantage because you’re missing guys. Everyone has. Pretty sure EBUGs have been used more than once (not played, but used).

Montreal dressed 16 skaters (11 F & 5 D) in Florida on Jan 1st before shutting down both the NHL & AHL until the 10th.

Some people theorized that Florida really pushed for that game because it’s a huge money maker for them. It’s most profitable time in the regular season & a traditional big draw for them (I guess even w/ the Habs’ record, AHL line-up & the assumed drop in Canadian tourism).

Blackwood isn’t new since they were waiting on results? Or does that mean his 5 days starts now (assuming he’s asymptomatic)? I’m going to not bother breaking my brain with this.

Speaking of goalies, Buffalo has four goalies out:
Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen is week-to-week after getting injured against Tampa on Tuesday.
Malcolm Subban is month-to-month after he got hurt relieving a hurt UPL when Pat Maroon fell on him.
Craig Anderson has been month-to-month
since the beginning of October.
And Tokarski is considered week-to-week as he recovers from his bout with COVID (!).

Now that isn’t a great selection of goalies, though both Anderson & UPL had good numbers, but it does show how vulnerable we are by not having anything in the system. (& good luck picking up someone now.)

Buffalo got Subban on December 2nd for future considerations.

Aaron Dell and Michael Houser are the Sabres goalie duo now. May god have mercy on their souls.

 

[Bleedred]

The fact that the Islanders haven’t played in forever will probably mean Lou wants this game.

I assume they cancel games more because new cases keep happening too, if there’s obviously an outbreak it’s a bit ridiculous to keep everyone together all the time.

The NHL doesn’t particularly care if you’re playing with a disadvantage because you’re missing guys. Everyone has. Pretty sure EBUGs have been used more than once (not played, but used).

Montreal dressed 16 skaters (11 F & 5 D) in Florida on Jan 1st before shutting down both the NHL & AHL until the 10th.

Some people theorized that Florida really pushed for that game because it’s a huge money maker for them. It’s most profitable time in the regular season & a traditional big draw for them (I guess even w/ the Habs’ record, AHL line-up & the assumed drop in Canadian tourism).

Blackwood isn’t new since they were waiting on results? Or does that mean his 5 days starts now (assuming he’s asymptomatic)? I’m going to not bother breaking my brain with this.

Speaking of goalies, Buffalo has four goalies out:
Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen is week-to-week after getting injured against Tampa on Tuesday.
Malcolm Subban is month-to-month after he got hurt relieving a hurt UPL when Pat Maroon fell on him.
Craig Anderson has been month-to-month
since the beginning of October.
And Tokarski is considered week-to-week as he recovers from his bout with COVID (!).

Now that isn’t a great selection of goalies, though both Anderson & UPL had good numbers, but it does show how vulnerable we are by not having anything in the system. (& good luck picking up someone now.)

Buffalo got Subban on December 2nd for future considerations.

Aaron Dell and Michael Houser are the Sabres goalie duo now. May god have mercy on their souls.

What the f***, I just saw that with both Luukkonen and Subban about an hour ago, which is weird because they both played last night. Luukkonen left after the 1st period and I think Subban played the rest of the game? He allowed all 4 goals after the 2 Luukkonen allowed.

And now he's month to month after finishing the game.

 

[Lou is God]

They could be keeping Mitens there because they suspect there will be no game tomorrow night here.

 

[Guttersniped]

Totally agree with your point on the whole (NJ needs more quality players), but just wanted to chime in on the Gourde point. He was TB's most used forward in the playoffs. By ice-time, the Goodrow-Gourde-Coleman line was really TB's 2nd line. And by Gourde's even-strength production, he was a fringe first-line player. And then you've got to factor in he played shutdown minutes and very effectively suppressed opposition offence.

Obviously, New Jersey needs more good players to push other guys down the lineup. But Gourde is/was simply a very good player. That's it. If he were dropped on the Devils today, I'd have no qualms if anyone argued he'd be their second-best forward.

Playoffs are far out of hand now. Time for Fitz to liquidate non-essential roster pieces in hopes of having more quality players in the future.

Gourde is very much a complimentary forward, albeit a fantastic one, his offensive numbers were low-end top line when he played with the Tampa 1st liners and dropped quite a bit when he didn’t play an offensive role with them.

He’s a very smart two-way forward, his value is limited by age and size, but he’s still important to a center starved Seattle.

Gourde is an example of the importance of having a strong AHL club and good player development. Of having a system and knowing the type of players that would thrive in it, finding them and developing them.

If we want to be a winning club then we need to get good at player development, which actually is not about dumping non-essential roster players and paying a lot for older players that better-run clubs have turned into big salary players.

Florida & Pittsburgh are also examples of teams who scout and find cheaper and younger FAs who then excelled on their team. Winning clubs do that.

 

[devilsblood]

Like I get the math and stuff, I'm not dumb, but it's a lot more fun to root for the team while they still have a mathematical chance. Easier to market, too.

I totally get that there's a close to 0 chance of making the playoffs but I'm still going to root for it until there's an actual zero chance.

And you want the players to play with that mindset.

That's why I'm against the "who cares about goaltending it's over anyways" mindset. These guys need to play, and succeed in games where it matters.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

They could be keeping Mitens there because they suspect there will be no game tomorrow night here.

Utica plays in Rochester tonight too.

I wonder how much Covid has affected the EBUG selection process. In 2017 the team had eight EBUGs.

October 24, 2017

As part of the Devils’ recent tryout for an emergency backup goalie, former Tigers goalie Zane Kalemba and current director of hockey operations Kevin Moore were among the four selected to rotate in the position to possibly get the chance to dress or even play this season.

“First off, we had over 400 applicants and we narrowed it down to 15, so for them to just make it that far is saying something,” said Devils goalie development coach Scott Clemmensen, who ran the tryout and enjoyed a 14-year pro career.

“With the 15 that we had, I thought it was a good experience. We weren’t dealing with (current) professional athletes, but these are guys where most of them had some sort of experience whether it was at the collegiate or pro level in the past. They had fun in getting a taste of what NHL life is like, and sort of a structured environment where it was a goalie-specific practice for about an hour. We had our minor league guys shooting on them, guys that will hopefully be in the NHL one day. Bottom line though, we got the information we needed from the hour-long goalie session.”

Kalemba and Moore will be joined by Dan Meyers, a Voorhees native who actually started a game for the Trenton Titans under similar emergency circumstances during the 2011-12 season, and Newton’s Steve Messina, who played four years at Bowdoin College and has one year of experience in the A-Level Federal Hockey League.

The four men will split the 41 home games on the Devils schedule, and get to experience many of the same perks a contracted player would as part of an amendment to NHL Rule 5.3, which governs the use of an emergency goaltender, that now mandates teams having a third goalie in the building in case of injury or unique circumstances.

Former Princeton standout Zane Kalemba ready to aid Devils if called upon – Trentonian

December 22, 2017

Broadt signed an NHL amateur contract for the 2017-18 season. Broadt is one of four amateur goalies chosen by the Devils to be emergency backup goalies (EBUGs for short). The other three amateurs are working guys like him who are also active in hockey in some way. The team also selected four goalies with previous pro experience. The only compensation is two tickets to the game, his own seating and a parking pass.

Given the often frantic scramble to find a backup goalie when the situation does arise, the NHL created a new rule for the 2017-18 season: All teams are required to have at least one emergency goalie near their home location that can fill in for either team. NHL teams always have two full-time professional goalies on their roster - a starter and a backup - for every game, home and away. But if the starter or the backup is injured just before or during the game, the emergency goalie would get dressed in that team’s uniform. He can sit on the bench or stay in the locker room.

UD alumnus is an emergency backup goalie in NHL

 

[billingtons ghost]

Ubertalented is a weird word to use, no one is saying add Ovechkin, McDavid, Kucherov etc. We need to put scorers in scoring roles. There's nothing wrong with bottom-6 players as long as they're in the bottom-6. If you're one injury away from top-6 Vesey and Kuokkanen you're not a good team.

The only forwards on this roster that have any business playing in the top-6 of a good team are Hughes, Hischier, and Bratt. MAYBE Tatar on a fringe team. On a good team Zacha and Sharangovich don't make the top-6. If they move Mercer to wing he would be a good option but we don't have the luxury of enough center depth to be able to make that move.

Look at Tampa, they had Yanni Gourde on their 3rd line. He would, like, the 4th best forward on this team. He's not an insane talent but he knows how to produce, unlike the guys we've played in our top-6 this season.

When this team is fully 100% healthy they are on paper kinda close to a wildcard spot - but no team stays 100% healthy all year, and good teams are able to handle a little adversity and get wins. We can't. We play hard, we have some good players, but we don't have the talent or depth to handle any real teams.

Everything you say here is absolutely true, and I think the only things we differ on is how to build it. You are saying we have four legit top6 talents and three if Mercer stays at 3c. I'm asserting two things:
A. You can mitigate the need for TRUE top6 guys by having a terrific bottom6. As constructed today, we could probably put together a bottom6 full of 1st rounders and one second rounder. I'm just saying that these guys once HAD or have a high ceiling and if we don't have to PAY them, they might still yield results.
B. How many players are in our system today that could be considered top6 material? Holtz and that's it? I'm fine if we've given up hope on any growth from Zacha. If you agree, then we have 4 top6 and need two more.

That means next year one trade and one UFA ought to do it, no?

 

[Chardo]

So what's the story, are we playing tomorrow?

 

[hidek91]

Aaron Dell and Michael Houser are the Sabres goalie duo now. May god have mercy on their souls.

...and lottery odds.

 

[devilsblood]

Ubertalented is a weird word to use, no one is saying add Ovechkin, McDavid, Kucherov etc. We need to put scorers in scoring roles. There's nothing wrong with bottom-6 players as long as they're in the bottom-6. If you're one injury away from top-6 Vesey and Kuokkanen you're not a good team.

The only forwards on this roster that have any business playing in the top-6 of a good team are Hughes, Hischier, and Bratt. MAYBE Tatar on a fringe team. On a good team Zacha and Sharangovich don't make the top-6. If they move Mercer to wing he would be a good option but we don't have the luxury of enough center depth to be able to make that move.

Look at Tampa, they had Yanni Gourde on their 3rd line. He would, like, the 4th best forward on this team. He's not an insane talent but he knows how to produce, unlike the guys we've played in our top-6 this season.

When this team is fully 100% healthy they are on paper kinda close to a wildcard spot - but no team stays 100% healthy all year, and good teams are able to handle a little adversity and get wins. We can't. We play hard, we have some good players, but we don't have the talent or depth to handle any real teams.

But we are not "one injury" away from Vesey and Kuok in the top 6.

Shara Hughes Bratt
Zacha Nico Tatar
Johnsson Mercer Kuok
Vesey McLeod Bastian.

And that is already with an injury to Wood. But you could go Johnsson and Mercer in the top 6 before considering Kuok or Vesey, let alone both.

Recently we've had 4 guys ahead of Kuok and Vesey on the sidelines thus those guys got time up the line up, but I think we were looking pretty solid before the recent covid run.

 

[devilsblood]

Everything you say here is absolutely true, and I think the only things we differ on is how to build it. You are saying we have four legit top6 talents and three if Mercer stays at 3c. I'm asserting two things:
A. You can mitigate the need for TRUE top6 guys by having a terrific bottom6. As constructed today, we could probably put together a bottom6 full of 1st rounders and one second rounder. I'm just saying that these guys once HAD or have a high ceiling and if we don't have to PAY them, they might still yield results.
B. How many players are in our system today that could be considered top6 material? Holtz and that's it? I'm fine if we've given up hope on any growth from Zacha. If you agree, then we have 4 top6 and need two more.

That means next year one trade and one UFA ought to do it, no?

Ya and keeping Mercer as the 3c very much is part of that argument. And if Mercer is the 3c, you want to put at least one talented winger on that 3rd line, thus you might take a "top 6" talent and put them on the 3rd line.

So if Shara is in our top 6, but isn't a legit top 6 talent, I'm not sweating it. Especially if we have a 3rd line that produces offense.

 

[devilsblood]

I think some guys are acknowledging the goalie problems undermining our results, yet quickly forget that and feel desperate to add fwds because the team isn't winning.

The fwd's have been pretty good, despite being ridiculously young.

 

[OmNomNom]

maybe everyone's favorite player geertsen can also player goalie

 

[billingtons ghost]

I think some guys are acknowledging the goalie problems undermining our results, yet quickly forget that and feel desperate to add fwds because the team isn't winning.

The fwd's have been pretty good, despite being ridiculously young.

Yes except for adding pressure to the goalie situation by missed assignments, egregious giveaways, and running our own tender. Kids, right?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nico good

 

[Hisch13r]

Nico good

I wonder how his market value rates out if last years nightmare is removed. It's nice to see his defense actually start to live up more to reputation

 

[Guttersniped]

Here’s a post of mine discussing how Fitz missed an opportunity to pick up veteran defensive forward depth from September 15.

How are the guys I mentioned doing? In order…

Riley Nash doesn’t have a card.


2021/22 Utica Comets and ECHL Talk

 

[Guttersniped]

Here’s our guys (so yeah, smart depth pieces are a good idea and a pretty standard good GM move).

Kuok was a mess but he has been quite good on PK lately, so that’s a plus. He’s defense has not been a strong as I had predicted tho lol.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Kuokkanen with negative market value lol. Not sure what that even means

 

[devilsblood]

Yes except for adding pressure to the goalie situation by missed assignments, egregious giveaways, and running our own tender. Kids, right?

You overplay these issues.

It's as if outside of NJ, there are no missed assignments. Teams never turn the puck over. Players never run into their own goalie.

Jack Hughes just had a goal deflect in off his skate. That has probably happened a couple dozen times around the league this season.

Our goalie problems are pretty clear, once Bernier's hip went south we've been playing guys who should not be in the NHL.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[devilsblood]

Here’s our guys (so yeah, smart depth pieces are a good idea and a pretty standard good GM move).

View attachment 497922

View attachment 497923

View attachment 497927

Kuok was a mess but he has been quite good on PK lately, so that’s a plus. He’s defense has not been a strong as I had predicted tho lol.

View attachment 497926

So all these guys get A grades?

 

[devilsblood]

Another A grade I see. Dude we are good.