Devils 2021-22 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XII

[Buck Dancer]

It’s very interesting how devils will continue to work on draft, because devils have some hard needs, but it’s not a great tactic to draft for needs when you have top-16 pick. And the most important thing is devils have 7 years of Hamilton deal and six years of Nico deal. That may be a window of our franchise and we are not even in playoff spot. Fitz should think a lot about trading picks for something we will not wait for years.

Like I said in another thread, drafting is the key to building a solid foundation but at some point, when you're foundation is somewhat set and you have a pretty solid pipeline, it's time to invest draft capital on the actual roster. We just handed out over 175M$ to three players in the past 18 months and that number will definitly rise above 200M$ when we'll sign Bratt this summer. When you invest that much cash into something, you're not expected to see rewards 3 or 4 years down the road, you're looking for immediate results.

We are lucky enough to have a stacked pipeline and we have the youngest roster in the league. I think Fitz will try and swing for the fences this summer by moving some youth and/or draft picks to give us the help our 20, 20 and 22 year old centers aren't getting at the moment. Keeping those assets and relying on the draft to patch certain holes would simply burn years off those big contracts we've been handing out for the past 2 years. I don't see how we can go into the 2022-23 season with Zacha/Tatar being our 2nd best winger.

 

[Lou is God]

It’s odd that Holtz is really producing in the AHL and drops but maybe Pronman just got to view him more now in the US.

An even distribution for teams would give teams ~3 players each so the Devils having 8 is nice; of course we should expect that due to draft position.

Would most Devils fans take Foote over Muhk in a vacuum? For me, it wouldn’t be a tough decision to bet on Muhk over Foote, if I had to gamble on one or the other.

I'm actually surprised Foote is still in the Top 100, I would have thought he would have fallen significantly lower.

 

[Devs3cups]

Also, ranking Mercer’s skating at below NHL Average seems wrong to me. I’m nitpicking here but oh well.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Pronman's U23 ranking. Last ranking was from September.

2. (10.) Jack Hughes
20. (26.) Luke Hughes
32. (33.) Nico Hischier
46. (69.) Dawson Mercer
57. (52.) Alexander Holtz
80. (44.) Ty Smith
90. (95.) Nolan Foote
92. (154.) Shakir Mukhamadullin

Ranking the best under-23 NHL players: Who tops the list, Andrei Svechnikov or Jack Hughes?

He rated Smith’s skating as “above NHL average” . He’s good on his edges, but his foot speed is so sluggish. I’d think even rating it “NHL average” would be rounding up.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Those rankings are basically someone's personal opinion. I mean, when we win a game, there's about 37 different opinions on this board alone on how we played... so yeah.

I don't put any weight in that type of stuff.

 

[Saugus]

Those rankings are basically someone's personal opinion. I mean, when we win a game, there's about 37 different opinions on this board alone on how we played... so yeah.

I don't put any weight in that type of stuff.

Ya, but what else are we going to discuss when all our games are postponed and everybody is out with Covid?

 

[AfroThunder396]

I agree, it's time to start bringing in some forward help from outside. Which is why I'm not critical of Tatar, we need more signings of that ilk. It's not his fault our team has zero winger depth and that he was brought in to be a top scoring piece, that's not who he is and shouldn't be expected to be that.

We are set at C for the next decade and have a #1D in his prime. Those are some of the hardest holes to fill, getting the other pieces should be comparatively easy. Our forward prospects are deep but lack top end potential outside of one player who still has some huge question marks. Like I said in the last thread, we can't rely on Holtz to save us.

Obviously both the market and our cap situation is much different now than it was when we traded for Palmieri, but deals like that are out there to be had. Even in just the last 18 months Fitz has turned Joey Anderson + 3rd into Johnsson + Siegenthaler, two good players we got for basically nothing. There are more trades like those out there.

I'm not moving a 1st or Holtz/Luke, but I think basically anyone else in the system is on the table for the right price. I'd also start liquidating guys that you know aren't going to be here in two years - Zacha, Wood, Kuokkanen, even Severson if he's unwilling to sign an extension.

Looking at UFA, there are some names I'd be interested in adding - Forsberg, Niederreiter, Palat, Burakovsky, Reilly Smith, Rust, and a few others. But for the first time in like 7 years the cap is going to be a consideration, we have to give the right deals to the right guys. I would love to pry Jared McCann (RFA) out of Seattle but I have no idea why they would do that other than Francis being an idiot.

IMO goaltending is going to be the hardest thing to address. I think this is Mack's last chance to show he can be a starter here. I get he's been through a lot but at some point you simply have to make that decision.

 

[Devils731]

The Athletic added trading cards for players, for people interested.

NHL Player Cards: New Jersey Devils

 

[NJDfan86]

I'm actually surprised Foote is still in the Top 100, I would have thought he would have fallen significantly lower.

I think people around here are being a little over the top with the negativity in regard to Foote because he hasn't seized an NHL opportunity yet (he only just turned 21 after all) - he was pretty solid in the AHL last year and yes he has struggled a bit this year but it's still a small sample size. I am also willing to bet that part of the drop off in his scoring production is due to the Devils coaching staff having him focus on a "physical" game instead of just letting him play his game.

 

[youryeah]

Dom Luszczyszyn just released his version of NHL player cards on the athletic. really good stuff to check out if you have a subscription. here are the devils player cards-

NHL Player Cards: New Jersey Devils – The Athletic

jesper bratt is going to get paid lol

 

[Devils Trap]

Already knew Bratt is going t be paid

Im shocked some people think we will be able to lock him up for under 7 million. He gets 7.5-8 million easily if he signs longterm.

 

[Devils Trap]

Dom Luszczyszyn just released his version of NHL player cards on the athletic. really good stuff to check out if you have a subscription. here are the devils player cards-

NHL Player Cards: New Jersey Devils – The Athletic

jesper bratt is going to get paid lol

Dougie's chart literally break most of the stats

 

[Better Call Sal]

Siegs' defensive numbers vs. Ty's.

Man.

 

[Buck Dancer]

I agree, it's time to start bringing in some forward help from outside. Which is why I'm not critical of Tatar, we need more signings of that ilk. It's not his fault our team has zero winger depth and that he was brought in to be a top scoring piece, that's not who he is and shouldn't be expected to be that.

We are set at C for the next decade and have a #1D in his prime. Those are some of the hardest holes to fill, getting the other pieces should be comparatively easy. Our forward prospects are deep but lack top end potential outside of one player who still has some huge question marks. Like I said in the last thread, we can't rely on Holtz to save us.

Obviously both the market and our cap situation is much different now than it was when we traded for Palmieri, but deals like that are out there to be had. Even in just the last 18 months Fitz has turned Joey Anderson + 3rd into Johnsson + Siegenthaler, two good players we got for basically nothing. There are more trades like those out there.

I'm not moving a 1st or Holtz/Luke, but I think basically anyone else in the system is on the table for the right price. I'd also start liquidating guys that you know aren't going to be here in two years - Zacha, Wood, Kuokkanen, even Severson if he's unwilling to sign an extension.

Looking at UFA, there are some names I'd be interested in adding - Forsberg, Niederreiter, Palat, Burakovsky, Reilly Smith, Rust, and a few others. But for the first time in like 7 years the cap is going to be a consideration, we have to give the right deals to the right guys. I would love to pry Jared McCann (RFA) out of Seattle but I have no idea why they would do that other than Francis being an idiot.

IMO goaltending is going to be the hardest thing to address. I think this is Mack's last chance to show he can be a starter here. I get he's been through a lot but at some point you simply have to make that decision.

Johnsson and Siegenthaler are two great pickups but we need top end talent, especially on the wings. If we invested that much capital on Hischier and Hughes, we can't roll with another teams missfit. I would absolutely trade our 1st++ for a young impact winger. Those are almost never made available and if they do hit the market, we have to go "all-in". If we need to slightly overpay in order to get it done, then that's what we have to do. As much as we like prospects on this site, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, they aren't locks by any means and it's probably our best trading chip at the moment with Severson when talking about realistic options that can be on the move. Dealing guys like Zacha, Wood, Kuokkanen, Sharangovich, etc won't get us the player we need and rightfully so because we wouldn't give up anything of value if a team offered those pieces for our main guys.

The UFA route is another option but we can't build our team through free agency. We absolutely needed a top pairing dman and made a strong push for Hamilton because those are almost never available on the trade market, let alone the open market. If we want to sign a key UFA, we'll have to overpay in price and term and if we're not landing one of two best players out there, I'd stay clear of that option because that's when you end up spending big bucks on guys that are just not worth it.

I talked about it a couple of days ago but if we insist on playing Mercer down the middle, I'd dangle him if a team like Calgary would be interested in parting ways with Matthew Tkatchuk but he would be the absolute last card I'd pull to make it happen. It would be a blockbuster of a deal but adding a solid 2nd/3rd line center is a lot easier to do then adding a top line forward. It would hurt (A LOT) but moving assets in a position of strenght is what we have to do here to solidify positions of weakness. It would also allow us to keep our pick and of bunch of other asssets because we wouldn't have to add anything of importance to get that deal done. It goes without saying that I'd try a quantity Vs quality package to kick start the conversation but if Mercer is a deal breaker, I'd think loooooong and hard about it. Needless to say I wouldn't do it for a 27 year old player but for someone like Tkatchuk, I'd probably do it.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Already knew Bratt is going t be paid

Im shocked some people think we will be able to lock him up for under 7 million. He gets 7.5-8 million easily if he signs longterm.

It's still unlikely. His track record is too short and GM's doesn's appreciate small skilled wingers as much as centers and goal scorers. I would bet that the deal is something like 4x5,8 million, 6x6,5 million or 8x7,2 million.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Already knew Bratt is going t be paid

Im shocked some people think we will be able to lock him up for under 7 million. He gets 7.5-8 million easily if he signs longterm.

There is no way he get's 7.5M$/8M$ on a long term deal.

The guy is having a great year, there's no denying that, but you don't roll out the red carpet for a player who had a career high of 35 pts and never scored more then 16 goals just because he's producing close to a PPG in his contract year.

If that's the deal we give him, we'll regret it sooner rather then later.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Siegs' defensive numbers vs. Ty's.

Man.

Siegenthaler has been a pleasant surprise this season. Great trade from Fitzgerald.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Siegenthaler has been a pleasant surprise this season. Great trade from Fitzgerald.

He's exactly what this team was needing... a strong defensive presence. Him and Graves would be my top priorities over someone like Severson, who seems to have turned a corner by being paired with Siegenthaler... but it'll take more then a 2 week showcase to convince me that he'll give us that level of play on a constant basis.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Obviously I would love to get Matthew Tkachuk, but 1.) I don't believe he's available, and 2.) At this point it makes no sense to bankrupt ourselves for one player. Going from 3 good forwards + a bunch of shit to 4 good forwards + a bunch of shit doesn't make us a playoff team.

And that's even if you're able to get them to agree to a deal that doesn't include Nico or Bratt, in which case you're making no progress at all. You're just swapping one guy for a different guy and not addressing the lack of talent or depth. One forward won't fix this.

I could be convinced to move our 1st if the guy we're getting back is a cost-controlled bluechip RFA under 23, but those guys are unicorns and almost never moved unless the guy has red flags or there's major drama.

We still have major holes and are looking to pick top-10 ish again. If we can find away to add another 1st I wouldn't mind moving a surplus pick, but it's way too premature to be going without 1sts, especially high 1sts.

Giving up your 1st at the wrong time can be disastrous for a franchise - a big part of the reason we ended up in our current position was because of draft mismanagement by the previous administration. And looking around the league recently - SJ gave up their 1st for Erik Karlsson when they didn't have a window and it cost them Tim Stutzle/Lucas Raymond. Columbus gave up their 1st in the Matt Duchene deal when they weren't ready to compete and it cost them Bowen Byram. Philly traded a 1st for one year of Ristolainen, and while I wouldn't have taken Isak Rosen with that pick the purchase certainly backfired for Philly as they are currently worse than they were last year and in dire need of a rebuild.

1st round picks are worth their weight in gold and shouldn't be taken lightly. Matthew Tkachuk didn't spring up out of thin air, he was drafted 6th overall and developed into the player he is today.

 

[Triumph]

I think people around here are being a little over the top with the negativity in regard to Foote because he hasn't seized an NHL opportunity yet (he only just turned 21 after all) - he was pretty solid in the AHL last year and yes he has struggled a bit this year but it's still a small sample size. I am also willing to bet that part of the drop off in his scoring production is due to the Devils coaching staff having him focus on a "physical" game instead of just letting him play his game.

I think both things are true here - I think Devils fans are too down on Foote for no good reason, but also that Foote doesn't belong on a top 150 players under 23 list, or if he does it's much closer to 150 than he's currently at. That said, it's very hard to construct one of these lists and the easiest way to do it is to use the drafts as your guide.

 

[NJDfan86]

I think both things are true here - I think Devils fans are too down on Foote for no good reason, but also that Foote doesn't belong on a top 150 players under 23 list, or if he does it's much closer to 150 than he's currently at. That said, it's very hard to construct one of these lists and the easiest way to do it is to use the drafts as your guide.

That is a fair point, of course. I would imagine there are U23 players having good years in the NHL/AHL that would be more worthy of a spot on the list, but since they aren't early draft picks they might not have captured the same attention.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I think everyone is a little overboard here. It isn't 'our centers, one winger and a bunch of shit' unless you are of the viewpoint that we need 4 full lines of ubertalented players with awesome player cards and super cool adv metric numbers.

That's not how winning teams are built.

I'll agree that after Bratt our priority is D- that Graves and Siegs should be Fitz's first business, followed by a 1b goalie with potential.

After that, clearly one top6 winger in a trade.

Holtz is coming.

Mercer + a kid from the pipe plus a good ufa two way fwd is great for the third line. Trotting out wood McLeod and Bastian for the fourth is perfect, esp if the first and second rounders games improve. They might be a third line really, as you could trot them out as shutdown... And then we just find kids with engines for the fourth.

I don't think we are that far away, esp if we turn some of those prospects into a top winger.

 

[Devils Trap]

There is no way he get's 7.5M$/8M$ on a long term deal.

The guy is having a great year, there's no denying that, but you don't roll out the red carpet for a player who had a career high of 35 pts and never scored more then 16 goals just because he's producing close to a PPG in his contract year.

If that's the deal we give him, we'll regret it sooner rather then later.

I mean, we clearly like to pay for potential. We paid Hughes and Nico 8 and 7 million per respectively without having incredible seasons.

I just see no way Bratt looks at those deals and doesnt ask for that long term.

 

[Guadana]

Like I said in another thread, drafting is the key to building a solid foundation but at some point, when you're foundation is somewhat set and you have a pretty solid pipeline, it's time to invest draft capital on the actual roster. We just handed out over 175M$ to three players in the past 18 months and that number will definitly rise about 200M$ when we'll sign Bratt this summer. When you invest that much cash into something, you're not expected to see rewards 3 or 4 years down the road, you're looking for immediate results.

We are lucky enough to have a stacked pipeline and we have the youngest roster in the league. I think Fitz will try and swing for the fences this summer by moving some youth and/or draft picks to give us the help our 20, 20 and 22 year old centers aren't getting at the moment. Keeping those assets and relying on the draft to patch certain holes would simply burn years off those big contracts we've been handing out for the past 2 years. I don't see how we can go into the 2022-23 season with Zacha/Tatar being our 2nd best winger.

Everthibg I read this i agree. We need in power forwards and it takes a lot of time to find right one and grow him.
The thing that worry me is in the post 2005 era every team did won SC with homegrown goalie if I remember it correctly. If there were some traded/Ufa signed SC goalie winners, they are exceptions.
Do we have our future stone cold crazy boy who will stand on his head in 22-24 games?

 

[RangerDoggo]

I think everyone is a little overboard here. It isn't 'our centers, one winger and a bunch of shit' unless you are of the viewpoint that we need 4 full lines of ubertalented players with awesome player cards and super cool adv metric numbers.

That's not how winning teams are built.

I'll agree that after Bratt our priority is D- that Graves and Siegs should be Fitz's first business, followed by a 1b goalie with potential.

After that, clearly one top6 winger in a trade.

Holtz is coming.

Mercer + a kid from the pipe plus a good ufa two way fwd is great for the third line. Trotting out wood McLeod and Bastian for the fourth is perfect, esp if the first and second rounders games improve. They might be a third line really, as you could trot them out as shutdown... And then we just find kids with engines for the fourth.

I don't think we are that far away, esp if we turn some of those prospects into a top winger.

Also helps that they're the youngest team in the NHL and there's room for growth.