Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XIV

[Darkauron]

Ask the Russians how well that went went for them in 1940.

Never attack finland by land in the winter. By sea and air should be our strat!

 

[PWiz30]

The question of what to do with the forward lines when Nico and Bratt get back is an interesting enough topic that IMO they deserve their own thread. I've been mulling over the possibilities all morning and there are so many, especially with the number of forwards who can either play on both wings or center and wing. Assuming everyone stays healthy (a big if), these are the combos that are intriguing to me.

A​	B​	C​
Sharangovich-Hughes-Bratt Zacha-Nico-Palmieri Wood-Zajac-Gusev Johnsson-McLeod-Bastian​	Sharangovich-Hughes-Johnsson Bratt-Nico-Palmieri Wood-Zajac-Gusev McLeod-Zacha-Bastian/Boqvist​	Sharangovich-Hughes-Bratt Johnsson-Nico-Palmieri Wood-Zajac-Gusev McLeod-Zacha-Bastian/Boqvist​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

• Hopefully putting Palmieri back with Nico gets him going. For whatever reason, Palmieri with Jack doesn't seem to work as well as it should.
• In the first scenario, Zacha probably doesn't deserve to be on that line but Johnsson hasn't shown me anything yet and even though Wood is off to a hot start, I don't think he can handle top 6 minutes at 5 on 5, especially when he can be useful on both sides of special teams.
• I really like the idea of having a Bratt-Nico-Palmieri line but unless Johnsson it presents a challenge in trying to figure out who should be on Jack's right wing. Maybe you even try a top 6 of Shara-Hughes-Boqvist & Brat-Nico-Palmieri. I may have Boqvist pegged as a 13th forward but it's not for lack of skill.
• They haven't scored yet but the history between McLeod and Bastian has been really noticeable to me in the first 3 games and they've generated some high-quality chances. I don't know that it would be as important to keep them together in the scenarios where Zacha centers the fourth line though.

 

[Guttersniped]

Bastian is tough to take out because he’s outperforming Koukkanen and he’s our biggest hitting machine. He’s getting real scoring chances and is pretty good defensively.

If hits and a willingness to fight and toughness/energy/blah blah blah alone kept Hayden in the line-up then Bastian, a productive non-anchor form of the player Hayden was, presumably has a real good chance of staying in.

 

[GameSeven]

Ask the Russians how well that went for them in 1940.

Or Google "White Death"

 

[theoptimist]

Matt Tennyson skates better than Butcher and I need you to watch the games. Thanks.

 

[Nubmer6]

Bastian is tough to take out because he’s outperforming Koukkanen and he’s our biggest hitting machine. He’s getting real scoring chances and is pretty good defensively.

If hits and a willingness to fight and toughness/energy/blah blah blah alone kept Hayden in the line-up then Bastian, a productive non-anchor form of the player Hayden was, presumably has a real good chance of staying in.

Hes also not waiver exempt whereas Koukkanen, McLeod, and Boqvist are.

 

[glenwo2]

The boys are back in town

 

[glenwo2]

I was thinking more of this :

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Matt Tennyson skates better than Butcher and I need you to watch the games. Thanks.

He’s playing under 12 minutes a game and is sporting a -10.9 CF% rel. It’s only been a few games but the guy has never been good, won’t ever be good.

 

[glenwo2]

He’s playing under 12 minutes a game and is sporting a -10.9 CF% rel. It’s only been a few games but the guy has never been good, won’t ever be good.

You have to wonder though why Tennyson is playing over Butcher (who is obviously better).

Maybe there is an undisclosed injury or something?

I'm surprised there's zero mention of him at all....

...it's as if Butcher doesn't exist or something.

 

[Nubmer6]

You have to wonder though why Tennyson is playing over Butcher (who is obviously better).

Maybe there is an undisclosed injury or something?

I'm surprised there's zero mention of him at all....

...it's as if Butcher doesn't exist or something.

I think they play different roles. I think it was always going to be between Smith and Butcher as the puck moving D on the 3rd pairing.

 

[glenwo2]

I think they play different roles. I think it was always going to be between Smith and Butcher as the puck moving D on the 3rd pairing.

You could be right but man...if I'm butcher, I'm wondering what to do with my life right now.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Who are these fans - because I haven't seen any on these boards.

We’re debating taking Tennyson out of the lineup, aren’t we? I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

 

[Devils731]

You could be right but man...if I'm butcher, I'm wondering what to do with my life right now.

Butcher is struggling to find a role with everyone healthy.

He’s probably the 4th best PP option and likely not a good PK option. His skating doesn’t jive with Ruff wanting defenseman to jump up in the play and cover a lot of ice.

So I think Butcher can be an effective even strength defenseman but I also understand why Ruff thinks he may not be the best option for what the Devils are doing right now. Butcher will eventually play and then he will have his shot to stay in the lineup.

 

[Guttersniped]

You have to wonder though why Tennyson is playing over Butcher (who is obviously better).

Maybe there is an undisclosed injury or something?

I'm surprised there's zero mention of him at all....

...it's as if Butcher doesn't exist or something.

Generally? Butcher’s value is obviously hurt because he’s not getting any PP time soon with this lineup and he doesn’t PK. Tennyson doesn’t play any special teams either so he’s definitely gone when the US government finally blesses us with Vatanen’s presence if everyone is healthy.

Right now, just going by 5v5 last season maybe Tennyson is seen as a more calming force defensively even though he certainly does less in terms of generating offense. That might be what Smith needs and it could be as simple as that.

We can’t really judge how camp went for players other than going by what Ruff says because there wasn’t any pre-season games.

I will add that Carrack was significantly worse than everyone last season and he’s only around because of his contract. He’s always the worst choice unless he’s improved enormously in secret.

 

[HBK27]

We’re debating taking Tennyson out of the lineup, aren’t we? I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

We are now, but we certainly weren't at the time of my post.

 

[Bleedred]

Generally? Butcher’s value is obviously hurt because he’s not getting any PP time soon with this lineup and he doesn’t PK. Tennyson doesn’t play any special teams either so he’s definitely

I will add that Carrack was significantly worse than everyone last season and he’s only around because of his contract. He’s always the worst choice unless he’s improved enormously in secret.

I still don’t understand why we gave him a two year deal. He was with 4 NHL teams before he turned 25. Why would he command a 2 year deal?

 

[NJDevs26]

Who are these fans - because I haven't seen any on these boards.

Eh a lot of people still want Butcher over Tennyson ignoring that they play different sides. I don't think there's any appreciable difference between Butcher playing on his offside and Tennyson playing normal for 10-12 minutes a night

 

[glenwo2]

I still don’t understand why we gave him a two year deal. He was with 4 NHL teams before he turned 25. Why would he command a 2 year deal?

You'd have to ask Fitz.

 

[Triumph]

I still don’t understand why we gave him a two year deal. He was with 4 NHL teams before he turned 25. Why would he command a 2 year deal?

The Devils had no RHD depth when they made that signing. They still don't have any - they're using Matt Tennyson.

 

[Guttersniped]

I still don’t understand why we gave him a two year deal. He was with 4 NHL teams before he turned 25. Why would he command a 2 year deal?

Carrick was better in his 20 games in 2018-19, there’s always random defensive subs who the coach heavily relies on for a stretch and Carrick had that role for one brief shining moment. He’ll always have that one season’s 19:35 ATOI to show his grandkids.

Why that got him two years instead of one is an excellent question, it was 20 games and it was less memorable than Dakota Mermis’s 10 game run last season.

Hynes immediately ghosted Carrick the next season though, it’s why I wouldn’t mind Mermis on my AHL team but I didn’t dream of picking him off of waivers this season. These guys are pro hockey players, they can be useful at the time, they just aren’t guys with NHL careers. And Carrick is getting his all his salary without escrow lol.

 

[MartyOwns]

if we do want to trade butcher now or at the deadline, which i think is possible, he'll have to get some games in. in other words, i wouldn't read his benching as proof that a trade is coming, quite the opposite actually.

 

[Guttersniped]

C’mon you know Ruff will wait for a loss.

 

[Emperoreddy]

C’mon you know Ruff will wait for a loss.

Its a weird debate. Why shuffle the entire D, which has given up exactly one 5on5 goal, during a winning streak?

 

[StevenToddIves]

Nobody thinks that Johnsson is some huge potential player, but he's been a good player in Toronto. He got 3rd line minutes and scored at a 1st line rate in 2018-19. The Devils don't have a lot of players who get to the net and score from in close - Johnsson is one of them. He hasn't had a great first three games, but neither has his line - Johnsson is the finisher on that line, Zacha and Gusev are the setup guys.

Still wouldn't mind swapping Sharangovich and Johnsson in the lineup and wouldn't be surprised if we see that soon, depending on how things go with Sharangovich.

In 2018-19 if I recall, William Nylander missed 30 games between a contract dispute and injury and finished with something like 7 or 8 goals. Johnsson, Kapanen, Hyman and (of course) Marner were all playing regular minutes alongside future Hall of Famers Auston Matthews and John Tavares, with regular minutes on the power play. Certainly this contributed to all four players hitting the 20-goal plateau. Johnsson had exactly 20.

In the remaining 55 games of his NHL career, Johnsson has exactly 10 goals. He is playing in his 27-year old season.

Now, what the Devils need to figure out is this -- is he the 17-22 goal player we saw when playing with top talent and with minutes on the PP? Or is he the 13-17 goal player we saw when playing a mid-6 "tweener" role with scarce power play minutes? Because those are our options. Johnsson is not becoming a different hockey player with a change of scenery. He has a nice compete level and and NHL-caliber finish, and like you I certainly like his nose for the net. But he also lacks any singularly elite talent and I'd grade his anticipation, passing and vision as below average. So, we're talking about a bottom 6 winger with the capacity to fill in short-term in a top 6 role. A nice depth piece, but the idea that he'd go to the Devils and jump to the top line and suddenly find the talent to score 30+ goals is preposterous.

Dropping Sharangovich off that top line for Johnsson is patently ridiculous. Sharangovich is faster, has a better shot, is a better passer, is more versatile and is better defensively -- and his NHL career is 3 games old. Though all of the credit for Jack Hughes being at the top of the NHL scoring leaderboard should go to Jack Hughes, Sharangovich's ability to help him out in the defensive zone and the face-off circle have been immeasurable, and Sharangovich has the speed to compliment Hughes offensively in a way which Johnsson does not.