Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) XI

[MadDevil]

On the Gusev subject, it's fair to question what he's worth, given that he's never played in the NHL. But it's not like we're talking a Kalinin level talent here. Will there be a transition for Gusev? Without a doubt. But I tend to think high skill players will find a way to adapt, especially given how the game is played today. Sure, there's a chance he completely bombs out, but there's also a chance he could be a really good, relatively cheap addition for whatever team acquires him. I wouldn't give up a top prospect or a 1st rounder, but if we're talking something like a 2nd + 3rd or 2nd + not a top prospect I think it's worth the risk. Although if Vegas is looking for a 2020 2nd we're probably out of it anyway.

 

[Devil X]

And what if we’re in a playoff race, And just miss, or get swept in first round. To great a chance to take. He’d likely only be happy if we win a couple rounds. He needs to be signed before season starts or traded IMO. If he can’t see the direction we’re going then Quite frankly screw em.

Yea but trying to sell the team, after selling Taylor Hall, before the season its going backwards. You add Subban and get lucky and add Hughes plus adding a guy for 1 year who is basically a PP specialist. To try and prove to Hall that the Devils are going in the right direction, only to trade him away before the season starts. Thats not a way to exactly get fans excited.

While totally understand the danger of going into the season with him its a risk they might very well have to take. Hall wants to be part of a winner, he has been on the "off season champions" roster before and went know where. He will need to see results and believe in them before he commits. Sometimes its the price you pay, look at JT, most of the Blue Jackets this off season. If you want to take a run at the playoffs, like i know they do, sometimes you gotta take that risk.

 

[Devil X]

On the Gusev subject, it's fair to question what he's worth, given that he's never played in the NHL. But it's not like we're talking a Kalinin level talent here. Will there be a transition for Gusev? Without a doubt. But I tend to think high skill players will find a way to adapt, especially given how the game is played today. Sure, there's a chance he completely bombs out, but there's also a chance he could be a really good, relatively cheap addition for whatever team acquires him. I wouldn't give up a top prospect or a 1st rounder, but if we're talking something like a 2nd + 3rd or 2nd + not a top prospect I think it's worth the risk. Although if Vegas is looking for a 2020 2nd we're probably out of it anyway.

You can sweeten it. First Vegas doesnt have a 2020 3rd i believe. Then make the 2021 pick conditional. Maybe a 3rd if he sucks (based on performance) if he is solid and the Devils make the playoffs in both seasons then our 2nd and if we win a ECF with him then a first? I dunno just be creative.

 

[Bcap88]

The guy has all the skills, I think he makes a fairly easy transition

 

[vozl59]

Yea but trying to sell the team, after selling Taylor Hall, before the season its going backwards. You add Subban and get lucky and add Hughes plus adding a guy for 1 year who is basically a PP specialist. To try and prove to Hall that the Devils are going in the right direction, only to trade him away before the season starts. Thats not a way to exactly get fans excited.

While totally understand the danger of going into the season with him its a risk they might very well have to take. Hall wants to be part of a winner, he has been on the "off season champions" roster before and went know where. He will need to see results and believe in them before he commits. Sometimes its the price you pay, look at JT, most of the Blue Jackets this off season. If you want to take a run at the playoffs, like i know they do, sometimes you gotta take that risk.

Were picking up guys to get better not to appease hall only. I’d rather not take that chance and lose him for nothing because that would indeed be going backwards. I’d like to think a trade with him would get us comparable pieces so not much would change and wed still Be trying to build a winner. Maybe if he signed it would make us more attractable to others. Look what happened to Tampa in playoffs. Could easily happen to us then we’re screwed. We shall see. I hope he does sign

 

[NJDevs26]

Were picking up guys to get better not to appease hall only. I’d rather not take that chance and lose him for nothing because that would indeed be going backwards. I’d like to think a trade with him would get us comparable pieces so not much would change and wed still Be trying to build a winner. Maybe if he signed it would make us more attractable to others. Look what happened to Tampa in playoffs. Could easily happen to us then we’re screwed. We shall see. I hope he does sign

Yeah but trading Hall is completely inconsistent with trading for Subban. What was the point of trading for Subban if you have to cash out on Hall and go on the 'Hughes-Nico' timeline of 2-3 years down the road? They're clearly not winning the next couple years if they do cash out on Hall unless it's some bizarro world HF scenario where they offer sheet Marner, get him then trade Hall to recoup assets.

 

[Devil X]

Were picking up guys to get better not to appease hall only. I’d rather not take that chance and lose him for nothing because that would indeed be going backwards. I’d like to think a trade with him would get us comparable pieces so not much would change and wed still Be trying to build a winner. Maybe if he signed it would make us more attractable to others. Look what happened to Tampa in playoffs. Could easily happen to us then we’re screwed. We shall see. I hope he does sign

I think is both in a sense of adding guys for Hall and to get better. But don’t let the idea of wanting to improve to re-sign Hall not be a factor in some of those decisions. There is a reason Shero called Hall before he added Subban. He does both adds talent and helps with Hall.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Went down the late night youtube rabbit hole and landed on a few vids which could be of interest to those here who have never seen them.





With that outsized personality and reprehensible character I'm pretty sure the rink will have to be stretched all the way to Market St. if it is going to contain his ego on top of Jack's turns.

 

[kiwidevil]

While its great Shero is including Hall in these decisions, I hope it is treated as a business decision by both parties.
Shero can't be treating it as a decision where Hall can take all the time he wants, or of course he will just go to UFA.

Shero needs to do what's best for the franchise and Hall needs to realise that.
I hope Shero won't let him step on the ice for training camp without his final decision.

Shero can hand the keys to Hall if he wants it, but there needs to be a cut off date of if he's in or out.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You guys are over thinking it. They will start talking numbers in a week or so. Shero has said as much. Doubt it drags into the season.

 

[kiwidevil]

You guys are over thinking it. They will start talking numbers in a week or so. Shero has said as much. Doubt it drags into the season.

I really hope it doesn't.

And I am doing the opposite of overthinking it really. Basically you can assume Shero will be fair with his offer. Hall just has to say yes or no. Pretty simple.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

We have no russians on our roster, so the transition for Gusev will be much tougher. I dont see a good fit.

Can Zacha speak Russian?

Spoiler

Or should we trade for Kovalchuk to be a mentor for Gusev

Spoiler

only kidding !!!

 

[nugg]

We have no russians on our roster, so the transition for Gusev will be much tougher. I dont see a good fit.

Can Zacha speak Russian?

Spoiler

Or should we trade for Kovalchuk to be a mentor for Gusev

Spoiler

only kidding !!!

Take Kovy from Kings for their 2nd in 2020. It will be a high 2nd, trade to Knights for Gusev, plus a 3rd or whatever. Have Kovy for his slapper, and yes, to help with the Goose. Win win.

 

[Bcap88]

You guys are over thinking it. They will start talking numbers in a week or so. Shero has said as much. Doubt it drags into the season.

If it does drag into the season then so be it, you trade him at the deadline if we are in the thick of a playoff race he prob stays regardless. I truly think he’s loved NJ, Hynes and especially Shero

 

[Bcap88]

Take Kovy from Kings for their 2nd in 2020. It will be a high 2nd, trade to Knights for Gusev, plus a 3rd or whatever. Have Kovy for his slapper, and yes, to help with the Goose. Win win.

Ew no, no aging forwards who have fallen out of grace. Imagine if he was still around he would have 7 years left on that contract still

 

[Devil X]

Take Kovy from Kings for their 2nd in 2020. It will be a high 2nd, trade to Knights for Gusev, plus a 3rd or whatever. Have Kovy for his slapper, and yes, to help with the Goose. Win win.

You are the kind of person that likes to watch the world burn!! Why even bring that player up on a Devils forum haha

Im sure if we are really that worried about Gusev if he is acquired we can bring in some FA Russian for camp to help, plus we have Brylin still.

 

[Davegarri]

Had a dream last night Shero traded two first round picks for a coach lol

 

[TBF1972]

offer sheet marner give up the 4 picks. like i said before if a signed marner was on the trade block (11 million hit) the asking price would be hughes or nico and first rounders so why wouldn't you want to keep the known players and give up 4 late round draft picks? its a no brainer. a 90pt kid in not even in his prime paired with jack hughes? you realize that is worth more then the value of those 4 draft picks combined. just look at zacha 6th and mikey 11th as proof that they don't always turn into anything spectacular. (not saying they are a bust) just saying that any production from those 4 draft picks won't really raelly really really contribute to this team until probably 5 years from now! you realize how long that is in hockey time?

how does this effect hall? we have no idea. there aren't many teams out there that can take a 12 million dollar contract obviously let alone a team that is hopefully contending (with marner) so does he go "merc" as people claim on here and seek out the most money? or does he take a shorter term deal put up insane point totals and really cash in when the next cba comes out?


saying that we have holes elsewhere is obvious but that doesn't mean we have x amount of money now lets go and solve that problem. 1 a player has to be available how often is that even an option? most resign before they hit the market even then we will be paying top dollar to come to jersey. 2. a trade? ok well what pieces are we going to offer up to bring in that d man? what type of d man will wood/zacha really bring back? the untouchables on this team are bratt/nico/palm/hall/coleman. and i doubt anyone would want zajac at that contract.

i am a little late to the discussion and i could have quoted other posts as well. but i am surprised, what people expect marner to produce in the future and the kind of impact he would have on the devils.

lets look at the facts:
2016-17: RS 77: 19 + 42 = 61p; PO 6: 1 + 3 = 4p
2017-18: RS 82: 22 + 47 = 69p; PO 7: 2 + 7 = 9p
2018-19: RS 82: 26 + 68 = 94p; PO 7: 2 + 2 = 4p

the increased point production is nearly entirely a result of an an increased number of assists. tavares, hyman and rielly all posted career best shooting percentages in the regular season. PO numbers (obviously SSS) don't follow the same trajectory. so even in the context of the TML, his 94p last season could be an outlier on the positive side, which won't be automatically repeated every upcoming season. may never again.

NJD context: marner is more a playmaker than a shooter. same is true for hall, hischier, bratt and hughes. there is no shortage on the devils roster for what marner does best. with the current devils roster marner could play equally good or even better than last season and still not produce the same number of points (assists) due the lack of shooters surrounding him. therefore the four 1st round picks going the other way might be not (or not all of them) late first round pick. marner himself wouldn't guarantee deep PO runs.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

And what if we’re in a playoff race, And just miss, or get swept in first round. To great a chance to take. He’d likely only be happy if we win a couple rounds. He needs to be signed before season starts or traded IMO. If he can’t see the direction we’re going then Quite frankly screw em.

You need to post more often.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

i am a little late to the discussion and i could have quoted other posts as well. but i am surprised, what people expect marner to produce in the future and the kind of impact he would have on the devils.

lets look at the facts:
2016-17: RS 77: 19 + 42 = 61p; PO 6: 1 + 3 = 4p
2017-18: RS 82: 22 + 47 = 69p; PO 7: 2 + 7 = 9p
2018-19: RS 82: 26 + 68 = 94p; PO 7: 2 + 2 = 4p

the increased point production is nearly entirely a result of an an increased number of assists. tavares, hyman and rielly all posted career best shooting percentages in the regular season. PO numbers (obviously SSS) don't follow the same trajectory. so even in the context of the TML, his 94p last season could be an outlier on the positive side, which won't be automatically repeated every upcoming season. may never again.

NJD context: marner is more a playmaker than a shooter. same is true for hall, hischier, bratt and hughes. there is no shortage on the devils roster for what marner does best. with the current devils roster marner could play equally good or even better than last season and still not produce the same number of points (assists) due the lack of shooters surrounding him. therefore the four 1st round picks going the other way might be not (or not all of them) late first round pick. marner himself wouldn't guarantee deep PO runs.

Nico plays a very similar game to a young John Tavares, so looking at chemistry of a player he could be someone who sets Nico up in similar ways to what Tavares got this past season. Hall is a playmaker but also scored 39 goals with rookie Nico, rookie bratt/palmieri as his linemates so someone like Marner could definitely bring out that sort of goal production. Also why is adding another playmaker such a bad thing? how many pure scorers are there out there? Palmieri is one and he is not a playmaker largely because his vision and passing are subpar. Hall can score but doesnt have an elite shot, but has become a far greater shooter in new jersey and looks to shoot more. Nico I can see being a 30 goal scorer, he has a good shot that once he develops could be very good, he puts himself in great positions and goes into the hard areas to get chances. Adding a player of Marner's caliber would be fantastic for this team in my eyes and while it doesnt guarantee any sort of playoff success, I would personally not be worried about handing over high picks to Toronto over the next 4 years. The thing that would worry me the most would be the Hall and Nico extensions and if the Marner number is somewhere between Panarin/Matthews and Mcdavid then potentially that could have a ripple effect on the rest of the high end players contracts.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Yeah but trading Hall is completely inconsistent with trading for Subban. What was the point of trading for Subban if you have to cash out on Hall and go on the 'Hughes-Nico' timeline of 2-3 years down the road? They're clearly not winning the next couple years if they do cash out on Hall unless it's some bizarro world HF scenario where they offer sheet Marner, get him then trade Hall to recoup assets.

You never know for sure. The Oilers made the playoffs the year after Hall left and won a round. They never did that with Hall.

 

[Csonked Out]

Take Kovy from Kings for their 2nd in 2020. It will be a high 2nd, trade to Knights for Gusev, plus a 3rd or whatever. Have Kovy for his slapper, and yes, to help with the Goose. Win win.

If this did happen, I could make use of my Kovy jersey again lol.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

While its great Shero is including Hall in these decisions, I hope it is treated as a business decision by both parties.
Shero can't be treating it as a decision where Hall can take all the time he wants, or of course he will just go to UFA.

Shero needs to do what's best for the franchise and Hall needs to realise that.
I hope Shero won't let him step on the ice for training camp without his final decision.

Shero can hand the keys to Hall if he wants it, but there needs to be a cut off date of if he's in or out.

I agree with your thoughts on this topic but Hall is coming off a knee injury. It may not be the worst thing to actually see him on the ice before committing to a long term contract. IMO the worst thing would not be Hall leaving via UFA - it would be if the Devils sign him long term and he cannot produce to the level of his contract very early on.

 

[Bcap88]

If this did happen, I could make use of my Kovy jersey again lol.

Simmonds forever

 

[TBF1972]

Nico plays a very similar game to a young John Tavares, so looking at chemistry of a player he could be someone who sets Nico up in similar ways to what Tavares got this past season. Hall is a playmaker but also scored 39 goals with rookie Nico, rookie bratt/palmieri as his linemates so someone like Marner could definitely bring out that sort of goal production. Also why is adding another playmaker such a bad thing? how many pure scorers are there out there? Palmieri is one and he is not a playmaker largely because his vision and passing are subpar. Hall can score but doesnt have an elite shot, but has become a far greater shooter in new jersey and looks to shoot more. Nico I can see being a 30 goal scorer, he has a good shot that once he develops could be very good, he puts himself in great positions and goes into the hard areas to get chances. Adding a player of Marner's caliber would be fantastic for this team in my eyes and while it doesnt guarantee any sort of playoff success, I would personally not be worried about handing over high picks to Toronto over the next 4 years. The thing that would worry me the most would be the Hall and Nico extensions and if the Marner number is somewhere between Panarin/Matthews and Mcdavid then potentially that could have a ripple effect on the rest of the high end players contracts.

I think you completely misunderstood my message. I am not against having Marner on the Devils. But considering his fit, the required cap space and the offer sheet compensation, it is for me not a no-brainer and it seems you agree with me, as you use could frequently in your post. Adding Marner to the current roster still could lead to a lottery pick changing hands in year one and/or two.