Devils 2019 offseason team discussion (news and notes) XI

[Triumph]

Why?

I’ll 10/10 times play the better player out of position then play a guy way out of he’s comfort zone.
A good coach will do that every single game watch til the season starts.

Now the conversation gets interesting because I will guarantee that batsmen will play minimum top4 minutes almost each game.

It’s a pretty easy choice when you have PK and severson and then you have green who will play limited minutes 5on5 and heavy pk time.
If my prediction is wrong i will be so glad because then it means hopefully that Butcher and Smith have earned the minutes. If that happen you can ship vatanen away or you could have a top 4 defender playing the 5-6 position and you could deploy you defenseman in better environments to succeed.

The man who wrote the article about why to leave RHD on the right side (Matt Cane) now works for the Devils. 'The better player' often becomes significantly worse when moved to the left side. It's not something the Devils should consider unless they run into injuries.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

The man who wrote the article about why to leave RHD on the right side (Matt Cane) now works for the Devils. 'The better player' often becomes significantly worse when moved to the left side. It's not something the Devils should consider unless they run into injuries.

Hmm, thats interesting. Makes you think twice about what they do with Vatanen

 

[Goptor]

Hmm, thats interesting. Makes you think twice about what they do with Vatanen

Put him on the right side and have him play 18-20 minutes per game.

You don't NEED a 3rd pair of plugs that play 10 min/g

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Put him on the right side and have him play 18-20 minutes per game.

You don't NEED a 3rd pair of plugs that play 10 min/g

Could be similar to what Winnipeg ran with Myers, trouba, buff

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Put him on the right side and have him play 18-20 minutes per game.

You don't NEED a 3rd pair of plugs that play 10 min/g

IMO thats just a waste of assets

Vatanen’s return is worth more than having a strong 3rd pairing at this point in the teams build

 

[DerekDevils30]

Could be similar to what Winnipeg ran with Myers, trouba, buff

It's an idea. I think Ty Smith can have a similar impact to that of Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg if we're comparing players. A LOT hinges on Ty Smith and his development. I think there's a hope he can step into a top 4 role right away this season which would be a huge boon for us.

The only guy readily available who can step in and provide some size for us is Mueller but I really don't know what his status is and what their plans are for him going into the season. There is some potential there for a solid shutdown option but he needs to get the mental aspect down pat before he has a chance. I love his size, speed, and reach but I wish he would be more physical. He also needs to work hard on his decision making with the puck on his stick.

Subban, Severson, Vatanen is about as good as you'll find on 3 pairings. I wouldn't mind keeping Vatanen around beyond the season but don't want to overpay as it'll be tough to fit everyone in. If there's a way Shero can flip Sami for an equivalent LD, ideally with more size, that would be great as Subban and Severson can handle the lion's share of the minutes in the top 4 on separate pairings.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

It's an idea. I think Ty Smith can have a similar impact to that of Josh Morrissey in Winnipeg if we're comparing players. A LOT hinges on Ty Smith and his development. I think there's a hope he can step into a top 4 role right away this season which would be a huge boon for us.

The only guy readily available who can step in and provide some size for us is Mueller but I really don't know what his status is and what their plans are for him going into the season. There is some potential there for a solid shutdown option but he needs to get the mental aspect down pat before he has a chance. I love his size, speed, and reach but I wish he would be more physical. He also needs to work hard on his decision making with the puck on his stick.

Subban, Severson, Vatanen is about as good as you'll find on 3 pairings. I wouldn't mind keeping Vatanen around beyond the season but don't want to overpay as it'll be tough to fit everyone in. If there's a way Shero can flip Sami for an equivalent LD, ideally with more size, that would be great as Subban and Severson can handle the lion's share of the minutes in the top 4 on separate pairings.

Yeah I’m not opposed to having those 3 on different lines and helping out the LHD we have since none of them right now are of top quality. Maybe Sami can be extended for cheaper than thought and we can re sign Greene at a chara like one year deal next year. I think Ty Smith will be a top pair player and easing him in this season could be great for his development.

 

[Zippy316]

Why are people still missing Smith from the top 6? He is a lock to play in the NHL this season and I think he will exceed all expectations.

I'm of the opinion you should anticipate your line-up without young players in prominent roles like top six forward or top four defenders. Obviously except first overall picks like Hughes and Hischier though. If Smith or Boqvist happen to fill into a top four or top six role, that's a great problem to have.

I would slot Smith as a bottom pairing defender, but Butcher being a very similar defender with the same exposable faults make me hesitant to pencil him in for that role at the moment.

What is your affinity for Greene on the top pair and Smith not in the NHL?

Youve posted those two things numerous times the last month or so

I don't feel Greene is as bad as we say he is. He's not the defender he was five years ago clearly, but I still feel he's a quality second pairing guy. Let's not also ignore the fact that out of necessity he's utilized in one of the most defensive roles in the entire league against the best players because we have no other option. He clearly shouldn't be the go-to guy in that role at this stage in his career and that makes him look far worse then he is.

That being said, he's still our best option alongside Subban. I think he could do a passable role with Subban carrying the load.

 

[Zippy316]

RHD on the left side is an awful idea. The Devils should not even be entertaining that.

Vatanen did it quite a bit in Anaheim so it's an option.

In general, I agree with you, but it is also worth experimenting with in training camp and maybe early into the season.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I'm of the opinion you should anticipate your line-up without young players in prominent roles like top six forward or top four defenders. Obviously except first overall picks like Hughes and Hischier though. If Smith or Boqvist happen to fill into a top four or top six role, that's a great problem to have.

I would slot Smith as a bottom pairing defender, but Butcher being a very similar defender with the same exposable faults make me hesitant to pencil him in for that role at the moment.



I don't feel Greene is as bad as we say he is. He's not the defender he was five years ago clearly, but I still feel he's a quality second pairing guy. Let's not also ignore the fact that out of necessity he's utilized in one of the most defensive roles in the entire league against the best players because we have no other option. He clearly shouldn't be the go-to guy in that role at this stage in his career and that makes him look far worse then he is.

That being said, he's still our best option alongside Subban. I think he could do a passable role with Subban carrying the load.

Ty Smith would likely request a trade if we tried to bullshit him into going back to the WHL.

And Greene**, whether you think hes a 2nd pair guy still or not, should NOT be handling top line minutes at 37 and his slowest ever in the fastest game hes ever seen. Id rather Smith sink or swim on the top pair or slide Vatanen over then ever let Greene play top pair ES again. Hell id even rather Mirco Mueller there.

Greene is perfect for the bottom pair and top PK minutes, and nothing more barring injuries

 

[Zippy316]

Ty Smith would likely request a trade if we tried to bull**** him into going back to the WHL.

And Subban, whether you think hes a 2nd pair guy still or not, should NOT be handling top line minutes at 37 and his slowest ever in the fastest game hes ever seen. Id rather Smith sink or swim on the top pair or slide Vatanen over then ever let Greene play top pair ES again. Hell id even rather Mirco Mueller there.

Greene is perfect for the bottom pair and top PK minutes, and nothing more barring injuries

Smith needs to earn his spot and be gradually moved up to play a top role. Don't want to overwhelm him at all. If he ends up there at the end of the year, then great. Smith makes me nervous with his size and lack of speed, like Butcher I feel like he may struggle due to his physical shortcomings that can be easily exposed.

And absolutely not to Mueller on the top pairing role. He does not have the poise or puck moving abilities to play that role at all. Maybe for a game or two, but he will get exposed against top player after a while. Greene does as well, but at least he has some veteran savviness to him to mitigate the damage.

Ideally, I'd want a Vlasic-esque defender (or a better version of Mueller) to pair with Subban and Greene as 2LD, but we don't have that luxury.

 

[Blackjack]

Ty Smith would likely request a trade if we tried to bull**** him into going back to the WHL.

And Subban, whether you think hes a 2nd pair guy still or not, should NOT be handling top line minutes at 37 and his slowest ever in the fastest game hes ever seen. Id rather Smith sink or swim on the top pair or slide Vatanen over then ever let Greene play top pair ES again. Hell id even rather Mirco Mueller there.

Greene is perfect for the bottom pair and top PK minutes, and nothing more barring injuries

Yeah, this discussion is insane. Smith was considered a value pick at #17 and his stock has only gone up since. He's the freaking CHL defenseman of the year. He was clearly ready LAST SPRING, outplaying guys that kept roster spots, and was sent back to juniors for reasons I've never understood. But whatever; in 2019-2020 the safe bet for Smith is top 4, the hope is that he challenges for top pair out of the gate, and I see no reason he can't do that. Leaving him out of the top six is bonkers.

 

[MauDevils]

Greene and Severson are both criminally underrated around here.

 

[Blackjack]

Smith needs to earn his spot and be gradually moved up to play a top role.

This is a meaningless platitude, everyone needs to earn their spot.

Don't want to overwhelm him at all. If he ends up there at the end of the year, then great. Smith makes me nervous with his size and lack of speed, like Butcher I feel like he may struggle due to his physical shortcomings that can be easily exposed.

I can go ahead and pull quotes from preseason last year if you like, people here were irate when Smith was cut, many thought he was our best defenseman.

 

[Blackjack]

Greene and Severson are both criminally underrated around here.

He had a little hiccup in his development, but if last year was any indication, he's already a #2 and could be a legitimate #1 some day.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Greene and Severson are both criminally underrated around here.

Theres nothing to underrate about a guy whos 37, getting slower, and has had decreasing ES minutes

Hes not the same guy, its just nature

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Greene definitely stinks anymore overall but the talk of making him a healthy scratch is kind of silly

he can still play. And he was actually very good on the PK.

 

[Zippy316]

Greene definitely stinks anymore overall but the talk of making him a healthy scratch is kind of silly

he can still play. And he was actually very good on the PK.

It's the same thing as Lovejoy.

Lovejoy isn't half the player Greene is, but he looked drastically better when he was playing third pairing minutes with a puck-moving partner in Butcher and heavy PK minutes.

Greene would look like a completely different player if he was playing his proper role.

 

[Zippy316]

This is a meaningless platitude, everyone needs to earn their spot.

It's moreso for young players to avoid overwhelming them early. Their spots should be unquestionably earned (see Hischier and Bratt in 2017-18 or partially Henrique in 2011-12). Even Butcher his rookie year put up 40 points, was given more minutes at times, but placed back down to the third pairing when he struggled a bit. I'd want to set the defense up to do the same with Smith.

To do that, it requires not penciling him in for anything beyond a third pairing role.

I can go ahead and pull quotes from preseason last year if you like, people here were irate when Smith was cut, many thought he was our best defenseman.

Smith was cut because we didn't have the personnel or role to play him in. We had no veteran defender to pair him with to ease him in with Butcher - Lovejoy already a thing. We had no PP opportunity to give him behind Vatanen - Severson - Butcher.

We still don't necessarily have that either. Butcher - Severson and Smith - Vatanen are our best bet for that at the moment, and likely will be the bottom two pairings. Even those two leave some room for concern with Severson's pairing lacking defensive stability and Vatanen's pairing lacking both size and speed.

 

[Blackjack]

I mean, I'd probably put PK on the powerplay.

 

[JrFischer54]

Holy cow two plus pages on talking about rd ld and comfort zones lol.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Holy cow two plus pages on talking about rd ld and comfort zones lol.

I mean... thats pretty important, no?

The top pair position is essential

 

[Devil X]

Going into the season hoping to be a playoff team and expecting a rookie to be your top pairing Dman is not a good plan. While I understand Smiths talent to expect him to come in and eat those mins and be that good is a stretch and just as it can help his development it can also kill it.

 

[Triumph]

Andy Greene should not play with P.K. Subban at even strength. The Devils didn't get Subban so that Greene could drag him down.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Going into the season hoping to be a playoff team and expecting a rookie to be your top pairing Dman is not a good plan. While I understand Smiths talent to expect him to come in and eat those mins and be that good is a stretch and just as it can help his development it can also kill it.

While I agree thats pretty crazy to expect - id rather try Smith there than simply have Greene do it.

Id literally put anyone up there besides Greene. Obviously it may hurt Smiths development so dont but Greene cannot be on our top pair if were to be considered better than last season