Devils 2019-20 Preseason/Season team discussion (news and notes)

[GameSeven]

If by some miracle, we were to acquire Patrick Laine tomorrow, this place would be flipping the **** out, I can guarantee that and all this nonsense would be a thing of the past.

In a vacuum, I'd be happy to have a sniper like Laine if the team were confident that last year was an outlier and not a sign of things to come.

But the contract does not jibe with what we're building.

Or are you looking at Laine as a Hall replacement? Because what are you paying, like $22M for Laine, Hall, Hischier next year? That leaves like $10M for 5 roster players including likely parting with two top 6 D-men in Greene and Vatanen; notwithstanding parting with one of the best cost-controlled D-men in Severson.

And if Blackwood continues to emerge as a solid option in goal, how much of that $10M does he command?

Your defense is, what, Subban, Smith, Butcher, then...?

Granted, a lot comes off the books in the following year, but our needs are considerably greater on the blue line than on the wing. It's just a balance of assets thing.

 

[Blackjack]

The guy had a bad season, and still managed to score 30 freaking goals, at age 21, let's just relax for a second and breath a little.

I don’t know why there’s this obsession to judge players based off the year that just passed and forget about the others. We live in a world of "what have you done for me lately" and this is just another prime example of that.

If he can score goals at an alarming rate, the rest of his game can easily be "fixed". I’d take a sharpshooter like him on my team any day of the week. Like another poster pointed out, pair him with a play making center who’s also defensively responsible (like Hischier), sit back and enjoy the show.

Not every star can do it all. I wouldn’t give two licks if our 40 goal scorer can’t play defence all that well or assist on every other goal scored by his linemates. There’s less then a handful of players that can do what Laine does and that’s something you can’t teach or minimize when evaluating his play.

If by some miracle, we were to acquire Patrick Laine tomorrow, this place would be flipping the **** out, I can guarantee that and all this nonsense would be a thing of the past.

The problem is that you're thinking of Laine as an archetypical 40 goal scorer, and it's not just that Laine isn't an archetypical 40 goal scorer, it's that there's no such thing as an archetypical 40 goal scorer. Everyone that scores at that level is different and needs to be evaluated individually.

You can't imagine that it's possible for a 40 goal scorer to be so bad at the other aspects of the game that he actually hurts his team's chances of winning, because it's hard to find another forward like that to compare him to, but that's exactly what Laine is right now. You say that the rest of his game can easily be fixed, but there's no evidence to support that statement. In fact, if anything, the flaws in Laine's game have gotten worse, not better. You say pair him with a playmaking center, who do you think he plays with on the Jets?

I don't understand why you're so worked up about this; it's a disagreement about a player that will never play for the Devils. That said, I think your points have been refuted pretty thoroughly and you're just being stubborn at this point.

 

[Call Me Al]

i think it should be taken into consideration that Laine is only 21 and didn't just coast into a 2nd overall pick and 40 goal season. You have to assume that someone with elite skill like that and elite size also has the ability to recognize those deficiencies and work to improve them.

we also have to take into consideration that we in all likelihood are not trading for him

 

[RangerDoggo]

I don’t think a trade of any sort is going to happen until a couple of months into the season. If we’re doing well in December, I can see a deal getting done to fix whatever hole may pop up.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I would not be “flipping the **** out” if we traded Severson and Bratt for Laine. I don’t even think we’d be a better team after that trade and our salary situation going forward would probably be worse.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

If you can't see the strides Severson made last year, I don't know what to tell you.

This is a player you have been trying to trade for literally years so excuse me if I don't take your opinion on him as gospel.

I’ll repeat myself, again. Damon Severson is a good 2nd pairing dman on a team friendly deal who’s awesome with the puck but is pretty mediocre without it.

If you have another view of his game that I’m missing, please, feel free to explain your point of view.

Wanting to trade him doesn’t necessarily mean that I think he sucks, but that notion seems to fly right by you. With the addition of Subban during the offseason, how many offensive minded blue liners do we need and if we do need to part ways with one, Severson is our best trading chip, wouldn’t you agree?

I’m not his biggest fan but I can also say that he’s our 2nd or 3rd best dman. The thing is that the 2 other guys above him are playing the same side he is.

 

[Classic Devil]

I’ll repeat myself, again. Damon Severson is a good 2nd pairing dman on a team friendly deal who’s awesome with the puck but is pretty mediocre without it.

If you have another view of his game that I’m missing, please, feel free to explain your point of view.

Wanting to trade him doesn’t necessarily mean that I think he sucks, but that notion seems to fly right by you. With the addition of Subban during the offseason, how many offensive minded blue liners do we need and if we do need to part ways with one, Severson is our best trading chip, wouldn’t you agree?

I’m not his biggest fan but I can also say that he’s our 2nd or 3rd best dman. The thing is that the 2 other guys above him are playing the same side he is.

Sami Vatanen is not a better defenseman than Damon Severson, full stop.

 

[NJDevs26]

Sami Vatanen is not a better defenseman than Damon Severson, full stop.

Not in 2019. 2017-18 is a different story, but post injuries for Vat and more development for Sevs I don’t think Vat > Sevs will be the norm going forward.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Sami Vatanen is not a better defenseman than Damon Severson, full stop.

Especially when you take age, contract situation, and injury history into account

 

[Oneiro]

Like Henrique before him, Vatanen is the most overrated player on this team, in 2018 and probably this season too.

I still do the trade in that context, but I'd bet, based on play, that he is likely to be our #5 D this year.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I would not be “flipping the **** out” if we traded Severson and Bratt for Laine. I don’t even think we’d be a better team after that trade and our salary situation going forward would probably be worse.

I would be flipping out in the negative. We get hosed in that deal.

Giving up two really good players on top of having to pay Laine?

He is an elite goal scorer, but the rest of his game is not good.

 

[Blackjack]

Like Henrique before him, Vatanen is the most overrated player on this team, in 2018 and probably this season too.

I still do the trade in that context, but I'd bet, based on play, that he is likely to be our #5 D this year.

He was good in Anaheim, but he was also surrounded by better talent. Hopefully with PK and Ty Smith in the mix, his game will improve. I've never been a big Vatanen fan, but he did put up some nice scoring numbers with the Ducks.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

In a vacuum, I'd be happy to have a sniper like Laine if the team were confident that last year was an outlier and not a sign of things to come.

But the contract does not jibe with what we're building.

Or are you looking at Laine as a Hall replacement? Because what are you paying, like $22M for Laine, Hall, Hischier next year? That leaves like $10M for 5 roster players including likely parting with two top 6 D-men in Greene and Vatanen; notwithstanding parting with one of the best cost-controlled D-men in Severson.

And if Blackwood continues to emerge as a solid option in goal, how much of that $10M does he command?

Your defense is, what, Subban, Smith, Butcher, then...?

Granted, a lot comes off the books in the following year, but our needs are considerably greater on the blue line than on the wing. It's just a balance of assets thing.

Great post. I would just add that Gusev is only signed for 2 years. Hopefully he performs at a high level he will be looking for a large deal as well.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Vatanen carried the D in the second half of 17/18 which was one of the 3 reasons (Hall, Kinkaid) that team made the playoffs. People forget that and its a damn shame. Hoping Sami can stay healthy and have a bounce back year and get close to that level again.

I like Severson, and he still has potential to be that guy but we have never seen a stretch by Severson like the one Sami had.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Vatanen carried the D in the second half of 17/18 which was one of the 3 reasons (Hall, Kinkaid) that team made the playoffs. People forget that and its a damn shame. Hoping Sami can stay healthy and have a bounce back year and get close to that level again.

I like Severson, and he still has potential to be that guy but we have never seen a stretch by Severson like the one Sami had.

Completely agree with you, friend.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Vatanen carried the D in the second half of 17/18 which was one of the 3 reasons (Hall, Kinkaid) that team made the playoffs. People forget that and its a damn shame. Hoping Sami can stay healthy and have a bounce back year and get close to that level again.

I like Severson, and he still has potential to be that guy but we have never seen a stretch by Severson like the one Sami had.

That was 2 seasons ago and while I appreciate what Vatanen did, we shouldn't be making decisions based on that.

like I said, when you take into account what we've seen recently, coupled with the fact that Severson is signed to a good contract and Vatanen is a pending UFA, give me Sevs every day of the week

 

[NjDevsRR]

That was 2 seasons ago and while I appreciate what Vatanen did, we shouldn't be making decisions based on that.

like I said, when you take into account what we've seen recently, coupled with the fact that Severson is signed to a good contract and Vatanen is a pending UFA, give me Sevs every day of the week

I am not saying to make decisions on that. Just stating what level of play he was giving us that season because many people tend to ignore that. He was great for us.

 

[Blackjack]

I am not saying to make decisions on that. Just stating what level of play he was giving us that season because many people tend to ignore that. He was great for us.

He was fine two years ago, we needed NHL caliber defenseman, and he was certainly that. Unfortunately my enduring memory is Henrique coming back after the trade and scoring that goal after lobbing the puck over Vatanen's head like some Harlem Globetrotter on Washington General shit.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I need the Summer of Shero to be complete with a “surprise” Taylor Hall signing.

 

[Offseason Champs]

The guy had a bad season, and still managed to score 30 freaking goals, at age 21, let's just relax for a second and breath a little.

except this isn’t the argument that was being discussed. Ain’t no one telling you or anyone else that he isn’t a great goal scorer. You keep moving the goal posts. Laine being here I’m sure people would embrace but you’re also using that opportunity to belittle two guys whose stocks are rising versus Laine whose stock is falling rapidly - deservedly so or not.

 

[Blackjack]

I need the Summer of Shero to be complete with a “surprise” Taylor Hall signing.

Hall decides to one-up Lebanc by signing long term at $1 million/year. Devils turn around and offer sheet Marner for $10 million a year. Leafs could match but decide not to because they're afraid of spending $40 million a year on 4 forwards. Hughes brings the roof down in camp and leapfrogs Hischier for the #1C. Boqvist outplays all rookies not named Hughes or Smith, and easily wins a spot. Devils roll into the season like this:

Hall-Hughes-Marner
Gusev-Hischier-Palmieri
Bratt-Zacha-Boqvist
Wood-Zajac-Coleman

(Coleman fights off a strong challenge from Mikey McLeod for the last forward spot)

 

[BahlDeep]

Sami Vatanen had a bad season due to injuries. His play didn't suddenly fall off a cliff at age 28. He's a better d-man then Severson, both offensively and defensively. Let's stop all this non sense right now.

Everytime Severson gets put on the top pair for a good stretch, he gets exposed really bad.

I don't care if he produced more points because that was never what people complained about, his ability to defend is mediocre.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I don't know if I'd say Sami has a better offensive game than Severson - I'd give slight edge to Damon on that front overall, and obviously last season.

I would say, however, it is indisputable that Vatanen is better than Severson defensively, though - even in the injury shortened 18-19 season. It isn't really all that close on that side.

I think you can prefer Severson going forward, with the lack of injuries and the contract situation, but if you asked me to pick one of the two for one winner-takes-all game tomorrow, I'd take Vatanen and not regret it for a second.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Sami Vatanen had a bad season due to injuries. His play didn't suddenly fall off a cliff at age 28. He's a better d-man then Severson, both offensively and defensively. Let's stop all this non sense right now.

Everytime Severson gets put on the top pair for a good stretch, he gets exposed really bad.

I don't care if he produced more points because that was never what people complained about, his ability to defend is mediocre.

I would say Vatanen is better in his own end than Severson, but Severson is better at literally everything else.

and he literally played a big role down the stretch last year and thats when he started to play better, so

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Please stop, your level of homerism is embarrassing. Patrick Laine is on an entire different level when comparing him to Bratt. Jesper is a good player but Laine is already a star, wheater you like or not and calling him one dimensional is borderline laughable.

He's a tremendous playmaker but if your linemates can't finish, it doesn't show up on stat sheets. With that said, if you have the shot he has, you should be shooting the puck 9 times out of 10 anyways.

I was confused for a while because I thought I was on the Oilers board. Reading the past couple of pages, you'd think Jesper Bratt is the second coming of freaking Connor McDavid!

Bratt for Laine? I’ll pay for Laine’s airline ticket.