Devils 2019-20 Preseason/Season team discussion (news and notes)

[Blackjack]

No doubt but that was only half my point. In his development he needs to be stronger on the puck. It would be big for him and us.

NB this was a response to the second to last preceding post. I also agree it will happen naturally as he physically matures.

Yup, sorry, not meaning to contradict you.

 

[devilsblood]

His PK numbers are the 4th best on the team for forwards outdoing guys like Rooney, Nico and Palms. He should get the last spot

I still think they limit his PK minutes until he proves he can play a full 82 games without gassing.

 

[Blackjack]

While we're on the topic of Bratt I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that a guy who had just turned 19 and was a 6th round pick a little over a year prior who never even played in the SHL managed to make an NHL team and put up 35 pts in 74 games. Then went on a have a 50+ pt pace season on an offensively inept and injury ridden team at 20 years old. It just makes no sense

I'm convinced he is a very, very special player. In my chronic offseason boredom, I've watched more game recaps than I care to admit. Even beyond his scoring stats, which are impressive, Bratt frequently shows up in the highlights setting up dangerous scoring opportunities that don't result in goals. He does this way more than any other player on the team. I don't want to try to project points or anything like that, but I'll just say that I don't see any natural limitation to game. For example, you can't say "Bratt will be limited by X" where X would be his speed, skating, stick handling, vision, intelligence, shot, etc. because there is no "X". The only weakness to his game right now is his ability to win physical battles, and he's already better at that than he should be given his size and weight.

I'll just say I think it's going to be really fun watching him mature.

 

[Blackjack]

I still think they limit his PK minutes until he proves he can play a full 82 games without gassing.

 

[Devils731]

I'm convinced he is a very, very special player. In my chronic offseason boredom, I've watched more game recaps than I care to admit. Even beyond his scoring stats, which are impressive, Bratt frequently shows up in the highlights setting up dangerous scoring opportunities that don't result in goals. He does this way more than any other player on the team. I don't want to try to project points or anything like that, but I'll just say that I don't see any natural limitation to game. For example, you can't say "Bratt will be limited by X" where X would be his speed, skating, stick handling, vision, intelligence, shot, etc. because there is no "X". The only weakness to his game right now is his ability to win physical battles, and he's already better at that than he should be given his size and weight.

I'll just say I think it's going to be really fun watching him mature.

When you get to watch Bratt in person, his offensive impact is extremely high, especially for his age. His acceleration blows people away and he sees interesting passing lanes that others don’t see.

Bratt’s offensive impact is higher than Nico’s, and that’s not a knock on Nico. If Bratt had been a first round pick, fans around the league would be taking big time notice of Bratt; only his draft pedigree keeps him flying under the radar.

 

[Oneiro]

I really think Bratt could grow into an Elias-lite type player if, given his size, he refines his all-around game.

I'd have to think very hard about giving him up for Laine. It's not the most rational take ever, but I think Bratt has a bit of an x-factor about him. A guy you win with and all that [insert old boys club cliche here].

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Nice random assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Also lol at thinking teams will trade a early 20's star and add to get a late 20's star with an injury history and one year left

They are based on comments he’s made, his many appearances at popular “hip” places, and its just a personal hunch. I’m entitled to an opinion.

Teams that are in win now mode may get pressured into decisions they wouldn’t normally make. Happens all the time. Toronto could fear another Nylander situation with Marner and decide to cut bait and take their chances with Hall.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't get it, did he not gas his rookie year?
Did his PK minutes not drop drastically throughout his rookie year, and from his rookie year to his 2nd year?

I think in time he will get there, but I don't think the team is rushing to put him on the PK, much rather his toi be in more offensive situations, and I agree with that.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I really think Bratt could grow into an Elias-lite type player if, given his size, he refines his all-around game.

I'd have to think very hard about giving him up for Laine. It's not the most rational take ever, but I think Bratt has a bit of an x-factor about him. A guy you win with and all that [insert old boys club cliche here].

I agree. Obviously if Bratt for Laine straight up is the deal you have to say yes from a Devils perspective, but I would be very reluctant to move Jesper Bratt. I also view him as a very similar player to Elias. I think Bratt will be a pivotal part of the future here in New Jersey. He’s like the Patrick Sharp to the Hossa (Hall), Toews (Hischier), and Kane (Hughes). Though his gameplay is more similar to Hossa than Sharp, he’s Sharp in terms of importance to the group.

 

[Blackjack]

I really think Bratt could grow into an Elias-lite type player if, given his size, he refines his all-around game.

I'd have to think very hard about giving him up for Laine. It's not the most rational take ever, but I think Bratt has a bit of an x-factor about him. A guy you win with and all that [insert old boys club cliche here].

Age	Elias Games	Elias Points	Elias P/G	Bratt Games	Bratt Points	Bratt P/G
19	1	0	0	74	35	0.47
20	17	5	0.29	51	33	0.65
21	74	37	0.50	?	?	?
22	74	50	0.68	???	!!	!!!!!!!!!

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[mtnet]

I have a hunch Bratt shall solidify his status as an indispensable/core member of the club this year

Just try and steer clear of those pucks to the yaw!

 

[Nubmer6]

I honestly don't understand this, Palmieri is a superb righty shot and has good goal totals. No, he's not on the level of Laine, but he plays a more rounded game. Look at the players Laine had to play with last year: Wheeler, Scheifele, Ehlers, Connor, Little. The Jets are loaded to the gills with talented offensive forwards. How many goals and points would Kyle Palmieri get if he played next to Blake Wheeler and Mark Scheifle?

I really meant for our 2nd line. We have playmakers in Bratt, Hughes, and Gustev, and arguably balanced passer/shooters in Hall and Hischier. Adding another shooter to go along with Palms would go a long way. Also keep in mind that we'll also need an heir to Palms. I'm not sure what his next contract will look like, but I don't want him to be our only shooter.

 

[Blackjack]

I don't get it, did he not gas his rookie year?

Yes, but he did not gas last year.

Did his PK minutes not drop drastically throughout his rookie year, and from his rookie year to his 2nd year? I think in time he will get there, but I don't think the team is rushing to put him on the PK, much rather his toi be in more offensive situations, and I agree with that.

Ad hoc ergo propter hoc. As much as I love Bratt, I don't think he's been a good penalty killer so far. That's why his PK minutes have been very limited. When Bratt had his amazing training camp and made the team in 2017, he had a couple of penalty killing sequences that went viral on Twitter, and everyone assumed that's he was going to be an elite SH scoring threat like Madden or Grabner, but that didn't pan out. He still could be an elite penalty killer some day, but he'll need to be stronger.

 

[My3Sons]

Nice random assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Also lol at thinking teams will trade a early 20's star and add to get a late 20's star with an injury history and one year left

I largely agree with not your points but no need to lol or add the random assumption stuff to a fellow Devils fan. That aside I expect we see a fair amount of unrealistic trade proposals if Hall is unsigned at Thanksgiving.

 

[mtnet]

I largely agree with not your points but no need to lol or add the random assumption stuff to a fellow Devils fan. That aside I expect we see a fair amount of unrealistic trade proposals if Hall is unsigned at Thanksgiving.

screed(ing) material

 

[My3Sons]

Yes, but he did not gas last year.



Ad hoc ergo propter hoc. As much as I love Bratt, I don't think he's been a good penalty killer so far. That's why his PK minutes have been very limited. When Bratt had his amazing training camp and made the team in 2017, he had a couple of penalty killing sequences that went viral on Twitter, and everyone assumed that's he was going to be an elite SH scoring threat like Madden or Grabner, but that didn't pan out. He still could be an elite penalty killer some day, but he'll need to be stronger.

As we lawyers like to state it - correlation does not prove causation but try telling that to a judge who is passing on the expert opinion of some fly by night “expert” who does nothing in an industry and then Proceeds to second guess everything about that industry based upon a “forensic” analysis which backs into a conclusion after cherry picking supportive facts and ignoring the negative facts without any real differential diagnosis.

 

[glenwo2]

Laine is the kink of player we need, despite his shortcomings.

I'm sure he's kinky, Nubmer6 but it's kind of rude to bring up his....."shortcomings". That's private.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes, but he did not gas last year.



Ad hoc ergo propter hoc. As much as I love Bratt, I don't think he's been a good penalty killer so far. That's why his PK minutes have been very limited. When Bratt had his amazing training camp and made the team in 2017, he had a couple of penalty killing sequences that went viral on Twitter, and everyone assumed that's he was going to be an elite SH scoring threat like Madden or Grabner, but that didn't pan out. He still could be an elite penalty killer some day, but he'll need to be stronger.

His PK #'s were good his rookie year.

And sure he did not gas last year, but he also did not show himself capable of playing 80 games. He actually averaged less minutes overall minutes last year then he did as a rookie.

He just turned 21, he is not a big guy, the NHL season can be grueling, there is no shame in expecting him to be slowly worked into various game situations.

 

[None Shall Pass]

I just want the season to start

 

[DerekDevils30]

Laine is such a polarizing character in Winnipeg. His goal scoring ability is undeniable and he can put up 50 or maybe even 60 in the right situation. What drives you nuts is his pure laziness in every other aspect of the game at times. The guy drove Jets fans NUTS last season. A big guy who rarely ever uses his frame to his advantage. If he could channel even a smidgen of Ovechkin's edge, he'd be virtually unstoppable.

While I'd love to see him in New Jersey, the cost would be a tough pill to swallow and it would put us in a very precarious position cap-wise in the next couple of years. I think Ray has done more than enough to put the forward group in a great position starting this season.

 

[glenwo2]

His PK #'s were good his rookie year.

And sure he did not gas last year, but he also did not show himself capable of playing 80 games. He actually averaged less minutes overall minutes last year then he did as a rookie.

He just turned 21, he is not a big guy, the NHL season can be grueling, there is no shame in expecting him to be slowly worked into various game situations.

Kind of difficult to play 80 games when you get your jaw broken by an errant puck in practice by a friggin' idiot like Stafford.

(or did you forget he missed a big chunk of the start of the season last year because of this?)

Or get hit in the leg by an errant puck (season was over by then anyway) and they decided to shut him down for the year since there was nothing to play for.

He is more than capable of playing 80 games and even proved he can handle Playoff games, too.

Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise.

 

[Wingman77]

Not too surprising given the 20th anniversary held by ownership for the 1995 team, but by the sounds of it here from Marty, there will likely be some event(s) in place for the 20th anniversary of the 2000 team this season. For those interested, about 1:10 in, after him discussing the former teammates of his being in a charity golf outing he is hosting, he mentions guys from that team being invited back to do things with the organization, so guess we will see what that eventually means. Neat nonetheless, would be nice to see some of these guys back around.

subban should tweet a picture of markov with the ‘breeding material’ caption

Followed by Hughes responding to Subban's 4th of July post with a "Show me your tits".

 

[devilsblood]

Laine is such a polarizing character in Winnipeg. His goal scoring ability is undeniable and he can put up 50 or maybe even 60 in the right situation. What drives you nuts is his pure laziness in every other aspect of the game at times. The guy drove Jets fans NUTS last season. A big guy who rarely ever uses his frame to his advantage. If he could channel even a smidgen of Ovechkin's edge, he'd be virtually unstoppable.

While I'd love to see him in New Jersey, the cost would be a tough pill to swallow and it would put us in a very precarious position cap-wise in the next couple of years. I think Ray has done more than enough to put the forward group in a great position starting this season.

The fact that he is a polarizing figure is a bad sign in itself.

 

[glenwo2]

I have a hunch Bratt shall solidify his status as an indispensable/core member of the club this year

Just try and steer clear of those pucks to the yaw!

That was Stafford's fault.

Keep him far away from Bratt!!!

I agree. Obviously if Bratt for Laine straight up is the deal you have to say yes from a Devils perspective, but I would be very reluctant to move Jesper Bratt. I also view him as a very similar player to Elias. I think Bratt will be a pivotal part of the future here in New Jersey. He’s like the Patrick Sharp to the Hossa (Hall), Toews (Hischier), and Kane (Hughes). Though his gameplay is more similar to Hossa than Sharp, he’s Sharp in terms of importance to the group.

But here's another thing :

You say "yes"..from a DEVILS perspective.

What about from the JETS perspective?

Do they give up Laine for Bratt? It just doesn't make sense on their end.

I'm convinced he is a very, very special player. In my chronic offseason boredom, I've watched more game recaps than I care to admit. Even beyond his scoring stats, which are impressive, Bratt frequently shows up in the highlights setting up dangerous scoring opportunities that don't result in goals. He does this way more than any other player on the team. I don't want to try to project points or anything like that, but I'll just say that I don't see any natural limitation to game. For example, you can't say "Bratt will be limited by X" where X would be his speed, skating, stick handling, vision, intelligence, shot, etc. because there is no "X". The only weakness to his game right now is his ability to win physical battles, and he's already better at that than he should be given his size and weight.

I'll just say I think it's going to be really fun watching him mature.

This is why I balk at trading Bratt, Period.

He seems to have that "IT" factor that only early 1st-rounders do.

I do not want to give up such a talent for basically a non-playmaking shooter who - apparently from what I'm reading here - has motivation issues.

Huh? Palmieri is far from one dimensional. He is really good defensively as well

I mean "OFFENSIVELY", Bleed.

 

[devilsblood]

Kind of difficult to play 80 games when you get your jaw broken by an errant puck in practice by a friggin' idiot like Stafford.

Or get hit in the leg by an errant puck (season was over by then anyway).

He is more than capable of playing 80 games.

Don't fool yourself into believing otherwise.

Are we really blaming Stafford for a ricochet shot?

Is Bratt capable of 80 games without gassing? Sure, if you limit his minutes, heck that goes for any player. W0uld he have gassed this past season? Well we don't know, because he only played 50 games. What we do know is that in December of his rookie year he was playing 16:50 of Atoi per game including significant PK time. Last year he played just over 15 minutes of AToi with very limited PK time.

You guys are assuming he would have played 80 games with no issues last year, and he might have given his limited minutes, but we don't know this to be true.

Again, this should not be seen as an insult but instead typical development of a young player.