Devils 2019-20 Preseason/Season team discussion (news and notes)

[Stephen Gionta]

Hypothetical:

Vancouver calls and offers Brock Boeser for Taylor Hall. What do you do?

 

[Brodeur]

Markov on a PTO could be fun. We open up preseason with a split squad at Montreal, so it would be amusing to roll out Markov/Subban if only for that game.

9/16: at Montreal: Markov/Subban, Mueller/Carrick, White/Tennyson
9/16: vs Boston: Greene/Vatanen, Smith/Severson, Butcher/Jacobs

 

[MartyOwns]

Hypothetical:

Vancouver calls and offers Brock Boeser for Taylor Hall. What do you do?

if we know hall isn’t going to re-sign? probably, if we have a handshake agreement with boeser to take $7M for 5 years.

that said, i’m 99% sure vancouver locks him up

 

[Hisch13r]

Interesting thought.

We already have 8 dmen. There is absolutely no chance we're getting a 40 year old who wasn't even good in the KHL last year. If we only had 7 I could see him being brought in to help Gusev but there's no room

 

[glenwo2]

When you're comparing Laine to a slightly better version of Michael Ryder in the long run, your credibility goes right out the window. The guy had a down year and still managed to score 30 goals.

The name of the game is to put the puck in the opposing net, something Laine can do with the best of them. On the other hand, we have a team a playmakers with guys like Hischier, Hughes, Gusev and Bratt. On top of that, our entire top #6 is under six feet tall outside of Hall, who's 6'1".

We're not getting Laine but the takes here are hilarious. Jesper Bratt is a good player but he's nowhere close to Laine.

Why are you constantly bringing up Height? It has nothing to do with anything. (and you think I lost credibility?)

Maybe in Football, Basketball, and Baseball...Height matters but Hockey? Only if you're a Goaltender, imo.

And they are both the same age.

What makes you think Bratt won't develop a shot and score more goals while being a Playmaker?

At this point, Laine is who he is : A one-dimensional sniper.

Somehow I don't think he will develop any playmaking skills.

You either have that ability or you don't.

Sorry but I prefer players who are NOT One-Dimensional and can do other things to help their team when their shot is NOT going in the net.

 

[jkrdevil]

I’m not sure any journalist who don’t follow the team day in day out (or are prospect followers) know that Smith is likely coming this year. Therefor it looks like we could be a defensemen short.

 

[HBK27]

I'm not one to complain about PK's social media presence or anything...and I know there was no bad intent with this tweet & that he was just pumping up an ex-teammate/friend. However, it comes across a little bad towards the rest of the Devils d-men to suggest you'd want to play with him again. Probably would've been better off saying he'd love to see him back in the NHL or something along those lines.

 

[NJDevs26]

Maybe in Football, Basketball, and Baseball...Height matters but Hockey? Only if you're a Goaltender, imo.

And they are both the same age.

What makes you think Bratt won't develop a shot and score more goals while being a Playmaker?

At this point, Laine is who he is : A one-dimensional sniper.

Somehow I don't think he will develop any playmaking skills.

You either have that ability or you don't.

Sorry but I prefer players who are NOT One-Dimensional and can do other things to help their team when their shot is NOT going in the net.

I mean I could make the same argument for Laine since they are the same age, why can't he develop more of a well-rounded game? Or I could say Bratt will never be anything other than a one-dimensional playmaker and be no more wrong than your approach with Laine. And yes height/weight do still matter SOME, not for individual players per se but for a team in general it's not good to only have midgets as your main forwards/defensemen, eventually being too one-dimensional catches up to you.

 

[NJDevs26]

I’m not sure any journalist who don’t follow the team day in day out (or are prospect followers) know that Smith is likely coming this year. Therefor it looks like we could be a defensemen short.

Or PK himself for that matter lol...I doubt he's going over the farm system with a fine tooth comb like Zach did with Minnesota

 

[Stephen Gionta]

if we know hall isn’t going to re-sign? probably, if we have a handshake agreement with boeser to take $7M for 5 years.

that said, i’m 99% sure vancouver locks him up

No, the idea is that you don't know if Hall is re-signing or not. So are you willing to wait the year out and see? or would you just jump at the chance to acquire Boeser for a player who might not be here in 10 months anyway.

 

[MartyOwns]

No, the idea is that you don't know if Hall is re-signing or not. So are you willing to wait the year out and see? or would you just jump at the chance to acquire Boeser for a player who might not be here in 10 months anyway.

then no, i wouldn’t. my first preference is to sign hall so i’d just try to do that

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I am all for acquiring Laine

I am not all for acquiring Laine if the cost is Severson and Bratt

fairly simple

I would do that deal straight away without hesitation.

Bratt is a nice player but Laine is already better and has a much higher ceiling. He scored 44 goals at age 20. We dont even know if Bratt can score 44 points in a year, given he starts strong then fades badly in the 2nd half. Plus with the uncertainty with Hall contract, Laine would be a great long term replacement.

As for Severson, he made great strides last season but he is isnt indepensable. Subban takes the no.1 role and Vatanen is a fine 2nd pairing. And both Ty Smith and Butcher can play on right side. And someone like Carrick or Mueller is fine on the bottom pair.

Too me its an absolute no brainer. Laine is a special player. Kovy jnr just not as speedy.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Why are you constantly bringing up Height? It has nothing to do with anything. (and you think I lost credibility?)

Maybe in Football, Basketball, and Baseball...Height matters but Hockey? Only if you're a Goaltender, imo.

And they are both the same age.

What makes you think Bratt won't develop a shot and score more goals while being a Playmaker?

At this point, Laine is who he is : A one-dimensional sniper.

Somehow I don't think he will develop any playmaking skills.

You either have that ability or you don't.

Sorry but I prefer players who are NOT One-Dimensional and can do other things to help their team when their shot is NOT going in the net.

So Bratt has the potential of being an elite player when he’s an average one now but Laine, who is already an elite player doesn’t have the potential to up his game over the years? What kind of logic is that

And yes, size, not just height BTW is pretty significant when playing a contact sport. Maybe if Bratt wasn’t as small, his play wouldn’t fade as much towards the end of the season and the playoffs?

Just the fact that you wouldn’t move one for the other in a straight deal is enough for me to avoid further discussion on the matter.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I would do that deal straight away without hesitation.

Bratt is a nice player but Laine is already better and has a much higher ceiling. He scored 44 goals at age 20. We dont even know if Bratt can score 44 points in a year, given he starts strong then fades badly in the 2nd half. Plus with the uncertainty with Hall contract, Laine would be a great long term replacement.

As for Severson, he made great strides last season but he is isnt indepensable. Subban takes the no.1 role and Vatanen is a fine 2nd pairing. And both Ty Smith and Butcher can play on right side. And someone like Carrick or Mueller is fine on the bottom pair.

Too me its an absolute no brainer. Laine is a special player. Kovy jnr just not as speedy.

I mean, Bratt put up 35 points as a 19 year old rookie. I think its safe to assume he can score 44 points.

I already laid out the Vatanen thing. He is a fine player but A) He is a pending UFA and B) he has a concussion history and I don't know if the Devils want him signed long term. So what do you do in 10 months when Severson is gone and Vatanen walks? Its not exactly like we are loaded with right handed DMen in the system.

Trading from a relative weakness (our defense) for a player who plays wing (a relative strength) makes no sense organizationally. 25 year old ascending top 4 DMen should not be traded for wingers IMO

 

[Blackjack]

So Bratt has the potential of being an elite player when he’s an average one now but Laine, who is already an elite player doesn’t have the potential to up his game over the years? What kind of logic is that

And yes, size, not just height BTW is pretty significant when playing a contact sport. Maybe if Bratt wasn’t as small, his play wouldn’t fade as much towards the end of the season and the playoffs?

Just the fact that you wouldn’t move one for the other in a straight deal is enough for me to avoid further discussion on the matter.

Bratt didn't fade last year, he did in his rookie year when he was 19.

 

[Blackjack]

IWe dont even know if Bratt can score 44 points in a year, given he starts strong then fades badly in the 2nd half. Plus with the uncertainty with Hall contract, Laine would be a great long term replacement.

Here are Bratt's game logs:

Jesper Bratt Stats and News

Can you tell me what games you're referring to when you say he fades badly in the 2nd half? Was it when he scored 13 points in his last 14 games?

 

[devilsblood]

I mean, Bratt put up 35 points as a 19 year old rookie. I think its safe to assume he can score 44 points.

I already laid out the Vatanen thing. He is a fine player but A) He is a pending UFA and B) he has a concussion history and I don't know if the Devils want him signed long term. So what do you do in 10 months when Severson is gone and Vatanen walks? Its not exactly like we are loaded with right handed DMen in the system.

Trading from a relative weakness (our defense) for a player who plays wing (a relative strength) makes no sense organizationally. 25 year old ascending top 4 DMen should not be traded for wingers IMO

a)He said goals, not points.

b)We do have a recent example of a young d-man for winger trade that worked out OK.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

a)He said goals, not points.

b)We do have a recent example of a young d-man for winger trade that worked out OK.

did he?

Bratt is a nice player but Laine is already better and has a much higher ceiling. He scored 44 goals at age 20. We dont even know if Bratt can score 44 points in a year, given he starts strong then fades badly in the 2nd half.

 

[glenwo2]

I mean I could make the same argument for Laine since they are the same age, why can't he develop more of a well-rounded game? Or I could say Bratt will never be anything other than a one-dimensional playmaker and be no more wrong than your approach with Laine. And yes height/weight do still matter SOME, not for individual players per se but for a team in general it's not good to only have midgets as your main forwards/defensemen, eventually being too one-dimensional catches up to you.

Height is not what one thinks when saying a Sports player is "one-dimensional". It refers to SKILL and whether he has more than one or just one skill. I don't know how to explain it better (sorry if I am not).

Besides, the game has changed since the smashmouth, open-ice-hits days and it's now about SKILL and who has the most that can help the team win.

Bratt may not have Laine's shot but he does have a shot to go along with his Playmaking skills.

I just feel giving him up for a one-dimensional player is foolish no matter how good that player's "One-dimensional skill" is.

It's not like we're talking about prime Jagr here with Laine....

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

So Bratt has the potential of being an elite player when he’s an average one now but Laine, who is already an elite player doesn’t have the potential to up his game over the years? What kind of logic is that

And yes, size, not just height BTW is pretty significant when playing a contact sport. Maybe if Bratt wasn’t as small, his play wouldn’t fade as much towards the end of the season and the playoffs?

Just the fact that you wouldn’t move one for the other in a straight deal is enough for me to avoid further discussion on the matter.

You know that nico is 6'1 right? I swear you dont look up anything and whatever your brain feels is true you just say.

 

[glenwo2]

@Bleedred

Bratt didn't fade last year, he did in his rookie year when he was 19.

@Taylor Hall

Yeah...he didn't fade, BlackJack. We are in agreement.

He got hurt by an errant puck in practice which caused him to miss a good part of the beginning of the season.

Then he got hurt by another errant puck on his leg during the latter half(I think) of our forgettable season last year and was shut down the rest of the way.


So no. He most certainly did not fade.

BTW, remember this?

But yeah...let's trade him for a one-dimensional player whose only strength is his shot.

We already have that type of player : His name is Kyle Palmieri.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I'm not one to complain about PK's social media presence or anything...and I know there was no bad intent with this tweet & that he was just pumping up an ex-teammate/friend. However, it comes across a little bad towards the rest of the Devils d-men to suggest you'd want to play with him again. Probably would've been better off saying he'd love to see him back in the NHL or something along those lines.

Eh, I think only if you really go digging for it can you interpret it that way. You hit his true feelings on all of that before that point though, just showing his love for Markov and wishing he could play with him again.

 

[glenwo2]

a)He said goals, not points.

b)We do have a recent example of a young d-man for winger trade that worked out OK.

Wow, devilsblood.

This is embarassing, don't you think? lol.

It was points that Peter said, not goals.

I would do that deal straight away without hesitation.

Bratt is a nice player but Laine is already better and has a much higher ceiling. He scored 44 goals at age 20. We dont even know if Bratt can score 44 points in a year, given he starts strong then fades badly in the 2nd half. Plus with the uncertainty with Hall contract, Laine would be a great long term replacement.

As for Severson, he made great strides last season but he is isnt indepensable. Subban takes the no.1 role and Vatanen is a fine 2nd pairing. And both Ty Smith and Butcher can play on right side. And someone like Carrick or Mueller is fine on the bottom pair.

Too me its an absolute no brainer. Laine is a special player. Kovy jnr just not as speedy.

And ZBC is correct. Bratt as a 19-year-old rookie put up 35 points.

If you seriously believe he won't be able to improve on that mark, I am guessing you're not much of a fan of him as a player to begin with.

 

[RangerDoggo]

I'm not one to complain about PK's social media presence or anything...and I know there was no bad intent with this tweet & that he was just pumping up an ex-teammate/friend. However, it comes across a little bad towards the rest of the Devils d-men to suggest you'd want to play with him again. Probably would've been better off saying he'd love to see him back in the NHL or something along those lines.

Get used to it, it’s PK. He’ll do and say things that hockey players “shouldn’t” and it rubs some people the wrong way, but at his core, he’s a team player.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the Laine for Sev's-Bratt proposal does raise an interesting question about team building: In the Cap system, how many star players, and star player contracts can a team have? Hall and Hughes especially look like guys who in 5 years, will be amongst the highest paid players in the league. Nico may not be as high up as those two, but you figure he's going to be paid pretty handsomely as well. Subban? Let's just say for argument sake we don't resign him and he is not on the team in 5 years, even if he is really good for us, given his age at that point, he might be a cap casualty.

So you have 3 players who will be paid pretty handsomely. Laine is another player who will likely have an elite level contract, and for arguments sake let's just agree he is worth that contract.

So given, again for arguments sake, you have 3 elite level players on elite level contracts already on the payroll, is it better to have 2 good players on more affordable contracts or another singular player elite player on a big time contract? In this case it's possible that Bratt and Sev's combined will make less then Laine.

Certainly it depends on the situations, how many contributors does a team have that are working on elc's, or affordable rfa contracts like Sev's signed, are there any bad contracts to consider etc. But no matter the case, at some point, a team has to say, we just can't bring in another star contract. So even though the maxim tends to be: the team that get's the best player wins the trade, I don't know if that is always the case.


Now, are we that point yet? Obviously not as we are still in speculation mode regarding the big contracts to come, but there are some reasonable assumptions to be made here, and you have to plan for the future with those possibilities in mind.