Devils 2019-20 Preseason/Season team discussion (news and notes)

[Spoiled Bratt]

Butler? lol

Butcher, sorry... autocorrect!

 

[Blackjack]

If laine scores 40 goals we are traiding Severson and Bratt for 40 goals not for 10 goals.

My post was a little bit oversimplified, but the point is that Palmieri is already a good shooting option from that spot on the powerplay. He's obviously not on Laine's level, but to me the upgrade is not worth Bratt and Severson.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Butcher, sorry... autocorrect!

I thought you were penciling Bobby Butler for some bottom pair minutes for a second lol

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

We getting Marner or Point?

Neither... Laine, and he is a legit superstar.

I know that posters on HF like to throw away the towel the second something goes wrong but if you don’t consider Laine a future star, you need to re-evaluate your criterias.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I am all for acquiring Laine

I am not all for acquiring Laine if the cost is Severson and Bratt

fairly simple

 

[Figgie]

He's obviously not on Laine's level, but to me the upgrade is not worth Bratt and Severson.

I am not the biggest fan to trade Severson but Laine will be a superstar and he would score 50+ goals after couple years if he plays with Hughes.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Neither... Laine, and he is a legit superstar.

I know that posters on HF like to throw away the towel the second something goes wrong but if you don’t consider Laine a future star, you need to re-evaluate your criterias.

I think last year was a bad year for Laine and its probably not what you will get moving forward. Looking at the salary implications Im not sure if that trade works, laine is due to make 7-8 mill (4ish more than what Bratt will make). And in this scenario you have to resign vatanen who will make more than severson on a new deal. Add this to Nico making 6-7 mill more on his next deal and Hall making 4-5 million more. Those are all estimates but its hard to squeeze in all that salary next season. I dont hate the trade for value purposes but id have to see that it could work for us long term, vatanen and hall signings would be necessary to me and im not sure either signs a deal with us until mid season.

 

[Blackjack]

Neither... Laine, and he is a legit superstar.

I know that posters on HF like to throw away the towel the second something goes wrong but if you don’t consider Laine a future star, you need to re-evaluate your criterias.

As much as I appreciate your mixed metaphors, I have to ask you, how much have you watched Laine? Do you watch a lot of Jets games? I'm asking because I don't, and this is a thing I said not two weeks ago:

"It's pretty ridiculous. I get that there are holes in Laine's game, but you do not score 36, 44, and 30 goals with nothing but a great one-timer from the faceoff circle. Palmieri has one of the best shots in the league and his best season was equal goals and seven more assists than Laine's worst."

Devils 2019-20 offseason team discussion (news and notes)

It didn't seem possible, to me, for all the criticism of Lanie as a one-dimensional shooter to be true. You can't score that many goals with nothing but a great shot, right? Then I went and watched his highlights, and they're extraordinary. Virtually all of his goals are one timers from the faceoff circle. I don't think I could find 5 goals that were scored on shots he created for himself. Cross seam passes from Connor and Wheeler set up most of his shots.

Now, I don't think his production is a flash in the pan, his shot really is that good. But it's scary to me to give up very good pieces like Bratt and Severson for such a one dimensional player.

 

[Figgie]

Now, I don't think his production is a flash in the pan, his shot really is that good. But it's scary to me to give up very good pieces like Bratt and Severson for such a one dimensional player.

I see your point but remember that Laine is 21 so his all around game will be better when he gets older. He have also focused to get more speed in the summer practice.

EDIT: He have played mostly with Litlle and think how good he would be if he plays with center like Hischier or Hughes.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Laine is one of those examples of people seeing him struggle last year and thinking that is what he will be for the rest of his career. He was a fine all around player in his first two years. Nothing special but he wasnt a liability as he seemed to be at times last year. if he played hurt as it has been reported then I give him some benefit of the doubt there especially since he didnt have these issues in his age 18 and 19 seasons. He turned 21 recently, i think its fair to expect him to hit some bumps especially playing through an injury, he has to work on his overall game but this is a player who can score out of nowhere and works well with playmaking forwards, who we just happen to have a lot of. Its not realistically on the table but Laine would be by far the best talent and player in a deal for bratt and severson. Im not sure if its the best deal for us right now, but to be able to buy low on someone as talented as Laine would be pretty cool.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Vatanen is pretty easily going to get 6M in UFA next year. Are you sure you want to commit that much AAV to a guy for at least ~5 years when we have so many expiring ELC's in the next few years?

If we're picking one guy to keep going forward it's Severson, he's better offensively and is more cost controlled.

 

[devilsblood]

Laine is one of those examples of people seeing him struggle last year and thinking that is what he will be for the rest of his career. He was a fine all around player in his first two years. Nothing special but he wasnt a liability as he seemed to be at times last year. if he played hurt as it has been reported then I give him some benefit of the doubt there especially since he didnt have these issues in his age 18 and 19 seasons. He turned 21 recently, i think its fair to expect him to hit some bumps especially playing through an injury, he has to work on his overall game but this is a player who can score out of nowhere and works well with playmaking forwards, who we just happen to have a lot of. Its not realistically on the table but Laine would be by far the best talent and player in a deal for bratt and severson. Im not sure if its the best deal for us right now, but to be able to buy low on someone as talented as Laine would be pretty cool.

There are 2 concerns imo regarding this trade proposal, neither of which is the return.

The first being, what happened last year? Like I said his goal #'s were still good, but they were mostly on the PP, while his 5v5 #'s were abysmal. His underlying #'s in previous were decent, so what happened? If we are talking about the Laine from 17-18 I'd trade Sev's and Bratt pretty easy, I like both guys but still an easy. But the Laine from last year is just a major question mark.

The 2nd concern is putting together all the contracts going fwd. Nico, Hall, Hughes, Laine, I figure those 4 guys would be taking up near half of the cap. And if the first concern has some legitimacy, spending $8+ mil on Laine would not be how I'd be looking to allocate funds.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Vatanen is pretty easily going to get 6M in UFA next year. Are you sure you want to commit that much AAV to a guy for at least ~5 years when we have so many expiring ELC's in the next few years?

If we're picking one guy to keep going forward it's Severson, he's better offensively and is more cost controlled.

Is he? Jake Gardiner's current situation says otherwise if players are known to have some injury concerns and he will be 29 next offseason.

 

[devilsblood]

Vatanen is pretty easily going to get 6M in UFA next year. Are you sure you want to commit that much AAV to a guy for at least ~5 years when we have so many expiring ELC's in the next few years?

If we're picking one guy to keep going forward it's Severson, he's better offensively and is more cost controlled.

I'd rather have Sev's going fwd. I'm not sure Vat's get's $6 mil, but just the same, he's not a guy I'm big on resigning.

But if the right deal came around would I change plans, trade Sev's and then look to resign Vats? Sure.

Question is, is Laine the right deal? At this point in time I probably say no.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Vatanen is pretty easily going to get 6M in UFA next year. Are you sure you want to commit that much AAV to a guy for at least ~5 years when we have so many expiring ELC's in the next few years?

If we're picking one guy to keep going forward it's Severson, he's better offensively and is more cost controlled.

I agree and I love Vatanen. But with the ELCs you mentioned and Subban now in the fold, it’s likely wise to let him walk.

 

[devilsblood]

As much as I appreciate your mixed metaphors, I have to ask you, how much have you watched Laine? Do you watch a lot of Jets games? I'm asking because I don't, and this is a thing I said not two weeks ago:

"It's pretty ridiculous. I get that there are holes in Laine's game, but you do not score 36, 44, and 30 goals with nothing but a great one-timer from the faceoff circle. Palmieri has one of the best shots in the league and his best season was equal goals and seven more assists than Laine's worst."

Devils 2019-20 offseason team discussion (news and notes)

It didn't seem possible, to me, for all the criticism of Lanie as a one-dimensional shooter to be true. You can't score that many goals with nothing but a great shot, right? Then I went and watched his highlights, and they're extraordinary. Virtually all of his goals are one timers from the faceoff circle. I don't think I could find 5 goals that were scored on shots he created for himself. Cross seam passes from Connor and Wheeler set up most of his shots.

Now, I don't think his production is a flash in the pan, his shot really is that good. But it's scary to me to give up very good pieces like Bratt and Severson for such a one dimensional player.

I haven't gone back and watched his highlights, but looking at his stats it does not surprise me that that is the case. They scream one dimensional PP sniper.

Posted them a couple weeks ago but his 5v5 stats are just really bad.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Don’t worry, your man crush isn’t going anywhere, it was just a proposal to see if we could possibly land a legit superstar for two good players.

You’ve literally made dozens of trade proposals involving Severson over the last year for players of varying ability and value. One was for Ristolainen. I mean...you need to recognize Severson’s value when you factor in contact. He’s also pretty damn good.

 

[mtnet]

Getting restless at this point, waiting on the season to get here like...

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

We can’t judge a player, any player that is, based off of their previous season while disregarding the others. If it’s a pattern and he had several abysmal seasons, I’d consider it as the norm but that isn’t the case here.

Laine saw his production drop mostly because he lost Scheiffle and landed with Little as his center. The fact that Paul Maurice keeps on insisting that he plays a 2 way game isn’t helping and he was also playing injured. Don’t get me wrong, you need to be responsible in all 3 zones but let’s not act like every offensive stud is. There’s a minimum that needs to be met and I’m fine with that.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

You’ve literally made dozens of trade proposals involving Severson over the last year for players of varying ability and value. One was for Ristolainen. I mean...you need to recognize Severson’s value when you factor in contact. He’s also pretty damn good.

I’m not his biggest fan and that’s no secret around here. I think he’s overhyped by many because he does have that potential but at a certain point, you have to deliver. Is he a top #4 dman, absolutely. Is he a top pairing dman, absolutely not. Does he have the potential to be one, maybe.

I don’t recall making a Severson for Ristolainen proposal since both players are RH. I do however remember offering Serverson for a significant upgrade in Subban, several times, despite the fact that they’re both RH. At the end of the day, we got PK for close to nothing, so that’s totally fine by me.

I don’t hate the guy and if he’s our 2nd pairing option for the remainder of his deal, I’ll be thrilled but if he can land us someone solid on the left side of our blue line or at right wing, he’s the first guy I’m throwing the other way because he has that potential that other teams might covet, because he’s on a team friendly deal and because we have two reliable options in Subban and Vatanen who can play heavy minutes on the right side.

If that explanation of why I want Severson involved in several trade proposals doesn’t make you understand why he’s always the guy I’m putting out there, I guess you’ll always have the same questions.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I’m not his biggest fan and that’s no secret around here. I think he’s overhyped by many because he does have that potential but at a certain point, you have to deliver. Is he a top #4 dman, absolutely. Is he a top pairing dman, absolutely not. Does he have the potential to be one, maybe.

I don’t recall making a Severson for Ristolainen proposal since both players are RH. I do however remember offering Serverson for a significant upgrade in Subban, several times, despite the fact that they’re both RH. At the end of the day, we got PK for close to nothing, so that’s totally fine by me.

I don’t hate the guy and if he’s our 2nd pairing option for the remainder of his deal, I’ll be thrilled but if he can land us someone solid on the left side of our blue line or at right wing, he’s the first guy I’m throwing the other way because he has that potential that other teams might covet, because he’s on a team friendly deal and because we have two reliable options in Subban and Vatanen who can play heavy minutes on the right side.

If that explanation of why I want Severson involved in several trade proposals doesn’t make you understand why he’s always the guy I’m putting out there, I guess you’ll always have the same questions.

I am assuming you didnt' watch the 2nd half of last year? He "delivered"

like I said, winger is much less a need than D right now. Not really sure how that is even debatable.

 

[Blackjack]

It's pretty remarkable to have a career year and play the way he did when the rest of the team around you is playing like dog shit.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I am assuming you didnt' watch the 2nd half of last year? He "delivered"

like I said, winger is much less a need than D right now. Not really sure how that is even debatable.

So did Zacha and no one is labelling him as a top #6 forward. Producing for half a season, when we’re eliminated come Xmas, doesn’t mean much. True, he did rack up a fair amount of pts but his overall game isn’t impressive by any means and that’s why I keep on saying that’s he’s a solid #3-4 option.

Again, if you think he’s top pairing material, that’s where I disagree. How is that so hard to comprehend?

If Severson was good at just that, defence, I’d agree with you but we have about 5 options that all play the same type of game, including 3 on our right side. Our blue line needs help, I’m not denying that but when given the chance to add a 21 year old 40 goal scorer for Severson and another winger, knowing we still have Subban and Vatanen that can play the right side, it’s a easy decision for me and I’m a huge fan of Jesper Bratt.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

It's pretty remarkable to have a career year and play the way he did when the rest of the team around you is playing like dog ****.

Not really, mostly because our depth on the right side was garbage the second Vatanen went down, meaning he got more minutes and more responsibilities. He also took Sami’s PP time, which was another reason why he had the #’s he did.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Not really, mostly because our depth on the right side was garbage the second Vatanen went down, meaning he got more minutes and more responsibilities. He also took Sami’s PP time, which was another reason why he had the #’s he did.

He took Will Butchers PP time and stayed there for the majority of the season. I do not think you have a good memory of the season.