Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part IX

[BenedictGomez]

Lovejoy had been fine, actually the one guy that does his job, Butcher hasn't been great on the PP but I think he'll come around, he's fine in his role. It's the rest of the dopes in the top 4 (who aren't really top pair guys) that I'm worried about.

Lovejoy was the Devils best defenseman against the Kings from a technical standpoint (i.e. actually playing defense & not making bonehead or irresponsible positional mistakes).

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

One of the problems with this fan base (and not just this fan base) is some think we need this, brawny, defensive defenseman. A big stay at home guy who can “Play defense”. AKA: stay trapped in their end and play defense. I consider Andy Greene (before he started declining) to be a good defensive defenseman. He hit over 30 points one time, but that was the definition of a good defensive defenseman. Guys like Girardi, Orpik, Justin Braun? All ****in trash pales. There was probably a point in their careers where they would have been fine #6 guys, but all are terrible.

I will say Adam Larsson and maybe even David Schlemko were also good defensive defensemen.

I think because of Scott Stevens, our fan base seems to prefer having one of these defensive types or two around. The reality is that not only was Scott Stevens one of the few players in the history of the game to be a game changer with his physicality, but he was also better offensively than any defenseman we have on this current roster, despite low point totals into his 30’s.

You can be small in today’s nhl, i don’t care but you need to be fast and quick if you are going to be small. And you do need size on defense to round out, Greene/vatanen/Smith/Butcher are all under 6 feet and reach/length is very important to defend. Butchers size and skating ability combination is not great. I don’t think we need a big goon with my no skill, but each pair needs to balanced. Larsson is a great defensive D man who can also pass wel out of the zone. He isn’t going to rack up assists, but he is great at outlet passes. D like that are super important because they can prevent goals and also get the puck up to the forwards for a rush.

 

[Triumph]

You can be small in today’s nhl, i don’t care but you need to be fast and quick if you are going to be small. And you do need size on defense to round out, Greene/vatanen/Smith/Butcher are all under 6 feet and reach/length is very important to defend. Butchers size and skating ability combination is not great. I don’t think we need a big goon with my no skill, but each pair needs to balanced. Larsson is a great defensive D man who can also pass wel out of the zone. He isn’t going to rack up assists, but he is great at outlet passes. D like that are super important because they can prevent goals and also get the puck up to the forwards for a rush.

Larsson is also not great at outlet passes anymore. He might've been once but now he is an off the glass and out kind of defenseman.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Larsson is also not great at outlet passes anymore. He might've been once but now he is an off the glass and out kind of defenseman.

View media item 3545
That’s just simply not true and i don’t know where you eve get that information without watching a ton of Oilers games.

 

[Davegarri]

Larsson's passes were always hand grenades. They were accurate, but not crisp and flat

 

[Triumph]

View media item 3545
That’s just simply not true and i don’t know where you eve get that information without watching a ton of Oilers games.

Does this image measure things that aren't passes, like off the glass and out plays? If not, it's useless - it could indicate that Larsson is going off the glass too often and not trying to pass enough.

As for the Oilers, I do watch a decent amount of them but more importantly I follow knowledgable Oiler fans on Twitter.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Does this image measure things that aren't passes, like off the glass and out plays? If not, it's useless - it could indicate that Larsson is going off the glass too often and not trying to pass enough.

As for the Oilers, I do watch a decent amount of them but more importantly I follow knowledgable Oiler fans on Twitter.

Do you know what a pass completion is?

The second statement you made is laughable

 

[BahlDeep]

Gun to my head, I probably choose Butcher over Mueller long term. I think the organization does too. Maybe not Shero, but Hynes seems to.

I’ll get back to you later this year with a definitive answer, but I lean towards Butcher.

So a 5th defenseman over a top 4 defenseman... lol wtf

 

[Triumph]

Do you know what a pass completion is?

I don't, actually, because it wasn't defined for me here. I just see a bunch of numbers with no definitions, and I don't know what's being counted. Now I know how you guys feel when people post a random graph on here without the context.

The second statement you made is laughable

It's not, but okay.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

We spend too much time talking about Larsson. On a team that needs defenseman, he would hardly help. He'd be an upgrade over Lovejoy on the PK and 3rd line. That would be it though.

Wow! This is just a horrible take! I would be really happy if Shero finds left handed version of Larsson, who can play in the first pair with Severson or Vatanen. I'm also pretty sure that Hynes would be ready to play Butcher on the second pair if the Devils had better defensive dman options to the right side. Lovejoy is a good 3rd pair dman but nothing more.

 

[Oneiro]

Wow, people here still think Larsson is good.

Of all the hills to die on...

 

[BenedictGomez]

Wow! This is just a horrible take! I would be really happy if Shero finds left handed version of Larsson, who can play in the first pair with Severson or Vatanen.

Worst take of the week. Larsson would play on the first pair in New Jersey. Obviously.

Just more evidence of how many Devils fans underestimate just how poor the Devils D is.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Wow, people here still think Larsson is good.

Of all the hills to die on...

There must be a reason why he gets 25 minutes ice time in the Oilers. Oh wait, McLellan and Hitchcock are horrible coaches. Well, the first one probably is.

I just don't understand why so many Devils followers needs to downgrade Larsson's skills now when he plays in the Oilers. Larsson isn't a Norris calibre dman, but he is definately better than @Jets012 wrote earlier.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Maybe it’s just me but why are we actively looking to deal out young guys to make room for Smith when there’s a transition process that makes sense here?

If we think Smith can be a top 4 guy at minimum, you continue to see progress in Mueller and Butcher is playing well in his role, then don’t make an easy decision harder. Greene will be up to the last year of his deal next year, reduce his role or potentially (not that I want to sentimentally) look to move him to a team looking for a veteran defender if he OKs it. Hell he might be alright with transitioning into the alternate defender role if Smith is actually ready next year. But we shouldn’t look to actively deal young defenders before we know how next year actually plays out.

For all we know, Smith starts the year off and doesn’t look ready. He then simply goes to the AHL and plays top minutes there. If that happens, wouldn’t we want to have a Butcher or Mueller still around in case?

 

[Maine Fan]

View media item 3545
That’s just simply not true and i don’t know where you eve get that information without watching a ton of Oilers games.

I am sorry, what did I miss? Does Larsson play for the Devils anymore?

 

[Triumph]

There must be a reason why he gets 25 minutes ice time in the Oilers. Oh wait, McLellan and Hitchcock are horrible coaches. Well, the first one probably is.

I just don't understand why so many Devils followers needs to downgrade Larsson's skills now when he plays in the Oilers. Larsson isn't a Norris calibre dman, but he is definately better than @Jets012 wrote earlier.

He's okay. He's probably good on the PK, and he's good at holding his own blueline. He's okay at clearing the zone, and is not very good in the offensive zone - his shot is terrible.

I don't think ice time is the best statement of who's good and who isn't. Plenty of bad defensemen, especially high drafted ones, got tons and tons of ice time for years (Bouwmeester, Jack Johnson). Larsson is not as bad as them, but he's pretty much average - he's shown he can handle a lot of ice time.

I'd want a defenseman like this - I wish Santini were as good, but he clearly is not - but not a high-drafted one.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

Do you know what a pass completion is?

The second statement you made is laughable

I second that. And you had the stats, in plain English, to back it up too. Classic.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

The power play was fine last year yet ppl found a way to whine and now look at it

The back-pass gimmick is what happened.

 

[MartyOwns]

Maybe it’s just me but why are we actively looking to deal out young guys to make room for Smith when there’s a transition process that makes sense here?

If we think Smith can be a top 4 guy at minimum, you continue to see progress in Mueller and Butcher is playing well in his role, then don’t make an easy decision harder. Greene will be up to the last year of his deal next year, reduce his role or potentially (not that I want to sentimentally) look to move him to a team looking for a veteran defender if he OKs it. Hell he might be alright with transitioning into the alternate defender role if Smith is actually ready next year. But we shouldn’t look to actively deal young defenders before we know how next year actually plays out.

For all we know, Smith starts the year off and doesn’t look ready. He then simply goes to the AHL and plays top minutes there. If that happens, wouldn’t we want to have a Butcher or Mueller still around in case?

i’m not sure he can play in the ahl next year but it’s a moot point. barring injury i’m sure he makes the team next year. walsh/davies will be the wildcards

 

[Triumph]

The back-pass gimmick is what happened.

The back-pass gimmick worked. It just didn't look normal so people hated it.

 

[Triumph]

I second that. And you had the stats, in plain English, to back it up too. Classic.

Okay, 'in plain English' - what is being defined as a pass here? An attempt to give the puck to a teammate, or releasing the puck anywhere? What if an Oiler was in the neighborhood of a clearing attempt high off the glass along the boards - is that a pass attempt or not a pass attempt?

Anyway, this is distracting everyone from arguing about whether or not Hall will stay here.

 

[VoidCreature]

The back-pass gimmick is what happened.

We were doing it last year too.

 

[Darkauron]

We were doing it last year too.

Not as much as this year. It is so predictable now

 

[NjDevsRR]

The back-pass gimmick is what happened.

The back-pass gimmick worked. It just didn't look normal so people hated it.

Omfg this again. The amount of people who do not realize that the majority of teams do this for years is beyond me...

The back pass must be done because it freezes the PK and makes them flat footed which creates an easy zone entry. Just because the Devil players struggle with it doesn’t mean its a flawed tactic. They have to get better at it. If you abandon that then you are left with skating into a line of players or just dumping it in which the SAME people would complain about.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Omfg this again. The amount of people who do not realize that the majority of teams do this for years is beyond me...

The back pass must be done because it freezes the PK and makes them flat footed which creates an easy zone entry. Just because the Devil players struggle with it doesn’t mean its a flawed tactic. They have to get better at it. If you abandon that then you are left with skating into a line of players or just dumping it in which the SAME people would complain about.

Lol this board has always complained about things the devils do that these same people apparently don’t realize 95% of the rest of the league does as well.