Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part IX

[SJinNJ]

Why is Larsson seen as some godly Dman now?

He has made plenty of blooper reels in his time, too.

Ppl act as if we gave up a Vlasic, were really we gave up an Alzner.

Because with him the Oilers went from a 70 point team to a 103 point team and gave up 33 less goals as well as going to the playoffs for the first time in 10 years. I am not saying he a is a great Dman, just saying what the casual fan would say.

 

[Billdo]

Because with him the Oilers went from a 70 point team to a 103 point team and gave up 33 less goals as well as going to the playoffs for the first time in 10 years. I am not saying he a is a great Dman, just saying what the casual fan would say.

Casual fans will point to McDavid and Drai, rightfully so. Larsson helped but this talk as if they added some sort of Neidermayer or Bourque is ridiculous.

 

[JimEIV]

Not comparing...this is more of a comment about Larsson defensive accumen...

This season
Merrill Corsi Against 49.32
Severson Corsi Against 51.80
Larsson Corsi Against 55.85

On ice shots against
Merrill 27.81
Larsson 29.06
Severson 30.34

 

[SJinNJ]

Casual fans will point to McDavid and Drai, rightfully so. Larsson helped but this talk as if they added some sort of Neidermayer or Bourque is ridiculous.

Agreed.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not..

Cory hasnt seen the playoffs since 2012, Quick has been either the main reason ora big reason for 2 cup wins. Not sure how either can be compared to each other.

Quick is light years better and one of the few goalies in the league that could succeed behind our subpar defense.

In one statement you say Rinne was pretty good last regular season, and now you're saying he's inconsistent and not that good anymore. The bottom line is, he's as good as the guys in front of him. Plenty of goalies are like that right now. Bobrovsky couldn't keep a starters job behind an average Philly D and when he first got to Columbus. Now that their blue line has improved, he won a Vezina.

Thats not a coincidence.

This is a nonsense take.

 

[NJDpassantino]

I hope Severson proves me wrong and turns out to be great...... But, he hasn't been good on a bad team. I wont bring up his +/- cause that bring up a heated debate.

Dude is 2nd on the team for ice time. He was on every PP and that is where he got half of those points and more of those assist he got were secondary assist. So, one could argue he's not a direct cause of those goals. Again, could stir another debate. I could get more into detail, but I have to work soon so I don't have time =(.

What confuses me is the hate for John Moore and the love for Severson. If we want to talk about TOI and points, this man should be on the PP a lot more. 10 goals and 12 assist with almost 20 games less played than Severson. Moore has actually had GWG goals and to me that counts more.

Neither are truly good to be top 2. They are a perfect 2nd or 3rd pairing Dmen on a real good team.

 

[Devils731]

Severson wasn't just good, he was very good on a bad Devils team. With Greene having a down year Severson was really the only defenseman contributing a lot to the team.

Moore had a fine year goal scoring that he will never repeat. Defensively he was bad in his own zone and in every other zone. Severson had to cover for Moore and tilt the ice for a lot of the season.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I hope Severson proves me wrong and turns out to be great...... But, he hasn't been good on a bad team. I wont bring up his +/- cause that bring up a heated debate.

Dude is 2nd on the team for ice time. He was on every PP and that is where he got half of those points and more of those assist he got were secondary assist. So, one could argue he's not a direct cause of those goals. Again, could stir another debate. I could get more into detail, but I have to work soon so I don't have time =(.

What confuses me is the hate for John Moore and the love for Severson. If we want to talk about TOI and points, this man should be on the PP a lot more. 10 goals and 12 assist with almost 20 games less played than Severson. Moore has actually had GWG goals and to me that counts more.

Neither are truly good to be top 2. They are a perfect 2nd or 3rd pairing Dmen on a real good team.

Another terrible take.

First of all, Severson was third on the team in ice-time, not second.

Second of all, he had 13 PP points (all assists) out of 31 total points. That is not that ridiculous at all.

 

[Billdo]

I hope Severson proves me wrong and turns out to be great...... But, he hasn't been good on a bad team. I wont bring up his +/- cause that bring up a heated debate.

Dude is 2nd on the team for ice time. He was on every PP and that is where he got half of those points and more of those assist he got were secondary assist. So, one could argue he's not a direct cause of those goals. Again, could stir another debate. I could get more into detail, but I have to work soon so I don't have time =(.

What confuses me is the hate for John Moore and the love for Severson. If we want to talk about TOI and points, this man should be on the PP a lot more. 10 goals and 12 assist with almost 20 games less played than Severson. Moore has actually had GWG goals and to me that counts more.

Neither are truly good to be top 2. They are a perfect 2nd or 3rd pairing Dmen on a real good team.

The numbers say he's actually been good to very good, on a bad team though. Good on you for not bringing up plus minus though, it's a horrible stat but I've got a feeling that's what you're basing this whole post on.

 

[Bleedred]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not..

Cory hasnt seen the playoffs since 2012, Quick has been either the main reason ora big reason for 2 cup wins. Not sure how either can be compared to each other.

Quick is light years better and one of the few goalies in the league that could succeed behind our subpar defense.

In one statement you say Rinne was pretty good last regular season, and now you're saying he's inconsistent and not that good anymore. The bottom line is, he's as good as the guys in front of him. Plenty of goalies are like that right now. Bobrovsky couldn't keep a starters job behind an average Philly D and when he first got to Columbus. Now that their blue line has improved, he won a Vezina.

Thats not a coincidence.

Wait, you're actually serious about this? Quick had little to do with the 2014 cup win. In fact, along with Niemi in 2010 and Fleury in 2009, it was the most mediocre a cup winning starter has played in quite some time. That was one of the weaker goaltended cup wins.

Quick is just above average every year, playing behind a way better defense. You're way overrating him.

Rinne was good last year, it was one of his two good seasons out of five between 2012-2013 and 2016-2017. Look him up on hockey reference, I'm on my phone and can't link it. Rinne has been inconsistent from year to year since 2013.

 

[JimEIV]

One more look

Larsson Last Season - Corsi Against 47.42
Larsson this season - Corsi Against 55.85 + 8.43

Merrill Last season Corsi Against 49.42
Merrill this season Corsi Against 49.32 - No Change

Severson Last Season Corsi Against 48.21
Severson this season Corsi Against 51.80 +3.59 - With a larger role


On ice shots against
Larsson last season On Ice Shots Against 25.10
Larsson this season On Ice Shot Against 29.06 +3.96 *4 shots against per 60 more is insane.

Merrill Last Season 27.97 Shots Against
Merrill This season 27.81 Shots Against - No Change

Severson Last season 27.97 Shots Against
Severson this season 30.34 Shots Against +2.37


The events against from this season are astronomical for Larsson...Larsson is more inline with Ben Lovejoy this season than he was with Severson or Merrill

Ben Lovejoy Corsi Against 56.59
Adam Larsson Corsi Against 55.85 .74 difference

Severson 51.80 CA60
Larsson 55.85 4.05 difference

Merrill 49.32
Larsson 55.85 6.35 difference

Sure Merrill didn't play the role Lovejoy, Larsson or Severson did but he performed very well in his role defensively.

So which guys played on the lottery team and which guy was on the 103 point team?
One is talked about as defensive stalwart...The other two a byproduct of the worst defense ever assembled....Mostly BS

 

[theoptimist]

''You do know I'd rather Prout matchup with tougher competition than Santini, right?'' - Why? What purpose does it serve? I understand not throwing Santini right in, but lesser competition than Prout? Come on man.

I think you do your best to put young players in positions to succeed. I had no problem with how much time was given to Prout last year. By the time we acquired Prout, we were clearly not making the playoffs. Santini has the tools to become a top-4 dman, but I was not in favor in putting him in positions that were unfavorable to him and the overall scope of the game.

This year, I will be really upset if 1) Prout is on the team + 2) Prout is averaging more minutes than Santini on a nightly basis. I suspect none of those two will actually happen.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

One more look

Larsson Last Season - Corsi Against 47.42
Larsson this season - Corsi Against 55.85 + 8.43

Merrill Last season Corsi Against 49.42
Merrill this season Corsi Against 49.32 - No Change

Severson Last Season Corsi Against 48.21
Severson this season Corsi Against 51.80 +3.59 - With a larger role


On ice shots against
Larsson last season On Ice Shots Against 25.10
Larsson this season On Ice Shot Against 29.06 +3.96 *4 shots against per 60 more is insane.

Merrill Last Season 27.97 Shots Against
Merrill This season 27.81 Shots Against - No Change

Severson Last season 27.97 Shots Against
Severson this season 30.34 Shots Against +2.37


The events against from this season are astronomical for Larsson...Larsson is more inline with Ben Lovejoy this season than he was with Severson or Merrill

Ben Lovejoy Corsi Against 56.59
Adam Larsson Corsi Against 55.85 .74 difference

Severson 51.80 CA60
Larsson 55.85 4.05 difference

Merrill 49.32
Larsson 55.85 6.35 difference

Sure Merrill didn't play the role Lovejoy, Larsson or Severson did but he performed very well in his role defensively.

So which guys played on the lottery team and which guy was on the 103 point team?
One is talked about as defensive stalwart...The other two a byproduct of the worst defense ever assembled....Mostly BS

That's exactly why I hate stat watching, corsi and all that nonsense.

You can't compare players who have different roles, on different teams, with different systems and different teamates.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I think you do your best to put young players in positions to succeed. I had no problem with how much time was given to Prout last year. By the time we acquired Prout, we were clearly not making the playoffs. Santini has the tools to become a top-4 dman, but I was not in favor in putting him in positions that were unfavorable to him and the overall scope of the game.

This year, I will be really upset if 1) Prout is on the team + 2) Prout is averaging more minutes than Santini on a nightly basis. I suspect none of those two will actually happen.

I could see them coddling Santini a bit in the beginning of the year, but then giving him lots of slack and playing time as we hit November and progress into the winter.

 

[born2run24]

Wait, you're actually serious about this? Quick had little to do with the 2014 cup win. In fact, along with Niemi in 2010 and Fleury in 2009, it was the most mediocre a cup winning starter has played in quite some time. That was one of the weaker goaltended cup wins.

Quick is just above average every year, playing behind a way better defense. You're way overrating him.

Rinne was good last year, it was one of his two good seasons out of five between 2012-2013 and 2016-2017. Look him up on hockey reference, I'm on my phone and can't link it. Rinne has been inconsistent from year to year since 2013.

Are we really talking about mediocre cup wins? If being "mediocre" in the Finals is your way of selling Schneider over Quick, then IDK what I could really say to make you think differently.

But then again you are basing your opinions off of nothing but stats and hockey reference. Maybe watch some other teams games and base opinions off of that?

Like I said, I watched a ton of Nashville last season. Rinne wasnt good in a lot of games. Mostly because Subban was either not healthy or not playing well. But once the defense clicked, it showed in the playoffs.

 

[born2run24]

This is a nonsense take.

Care to comment further on that? Or just gonna take one statement out of a group and point to it?

Do you not agree that some goalies in the league are better than others? Or are you going to be like the other homer here and say that Cory is equal to Quick? Or somehow better than him?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I always love the "watch the games!!!" arguments.

Quick had one amazing playoff year (11-12), one very very good playoff year (12-13), and then everything else is mediocre to bad.

Schneider has consistently played on teams much worse than Quick has.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Care to comment further on that? Or just gonna take one statement out of a group and point to it?

Do you not agree that some goalies in the league are better than others? Or are you going to be like the other homer here and say that Cory is equal to Quick? Or somehow better than him?

Please list me who you think the top 10 goalies are in the league in order.

This list will tell me a lot about how accurate your "BUT I WATCH THE GAMES!!!" take is.

 

[Its a Trap]

Care to comment further on that? Or just gonna take one statement out of a group and point to it?

Do you not agree that some goalies in the league are better than others? Or are you going to be like the other homer here and say that Cory is equal to Quick? Or somehow better than him?

Jonathan Quick is not this fantastic goaltender you make him out to be. He's garbage in the regular season and can't flip the switch like others can in the playoffs.

I'd take Dwayne Roloson in the playoffs over Quick.

 

[devilsblood]

One more look

Larsson Last Season - Corsi Against 47.42
Larsson this season - Corsi Against 55.85 + 8.43

Merrill Last season Corsi Against 49.42
Merrill this season Corsi Against 49.32 - No Change

Severson Last Season Corsi Against 48.21
Severson this season Corsi Against 51.80 +3.59 - With a larger role


On ice shots against
Larsson last season On Ice Shots Against 25.10
Larsson this season On Ice Shot Against 29.06 +3.96 *4 shots against per 60 more is insane.

Merrill Last Season 27.97 Shots Against
Merrill This season 27.81 Shots Against - No Change

Severson Last season 27.97 Shots Against
Severson this season 30.34 Shots Against +2.37


The events against from this season are astronomical for Larsson...Larsson is more inline with Ben Lovejoy this season than he was with Severson or Merrill

Ben Lovejoy Corsi Against 56.59
Adam Larsson Corsi Against 55.85 .74 difference

Severson 51.80 CA60
Larsson 55.85 4.05 difference

Merrill 49.32
Larsson 55.85 6.35 difference

Sure Merrill didn't play the role Lovejoy, Larsson or Severson did but he performed very well in his role defensively.

So which guys played on the lottery team and which guy was on the 103 point team?
One is talked about as defensive stalwart...The other two a byproduct of the worst defense ever assembled....Mostly BS

I'll assume Edm as a whole was a way higher event team. That is the driver in why in many on the #'s posted above, Lar's increased the way they did.

Thus % of chances for and against is better then just chances against.
The Relative #'s even more so.

Not perfect,as role within the team needs to be factored, but much better then the way you are presenting the #'s.

 

[Bleedred]

So the eye test tells you that Quick is a really good goalie? Because he makes athletic and highlight reel saves? The eye test might tell one that Ondrej Pavelec is really good, because he makes those kinds of saves.

That's not to say that Quick should be compared to Pavelec. One is a good/above average goalie and the other is beyond inefficient, although I think he may be able to be solid as a backup this year.

 

[Bleedred]

Jonathan Quick is not this fantastic goaltender you make him out to be. He's garbage in the regular season and can't flip the switch like others can in the playoffs.

I'd take Dwayne Roloson in the playoffs over Quick.

I don't think he's garbage in the regular season. He's just good/above average. Not elite though.

This poster is under the belief that he's like the Bruce Springsteen of goalies.

 

[devilsblood]

That's exactly why I hate stat watching, corsi and all that nonsense.

You can't compare players who have different roles, on different teams, with different systems and different teamates.

Jim's list of stats is an example of how stats can be misused, not an example of why stats are bad.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Jonathan Quick's career stats:
0.916 SV%, 2.26 GAA, 44 shutouts


Cory Schneider's career stats:
0.922 SV%, 2.28 GAA, 23 shutouts

now keep in mind, Quick has played for generally much better teams than Schneider has. I don't know how one can make the claim that Quick is "much better" than Schneider.

 

[JimEIV]

I'll assume Edm as a whole was a way higher event team. That is the driver in why in many on the #'s posted above, Lar's increased the way they did.

Thus % of chances for and against is better then just chances against.
The Relative #'s even more so.

Not perfect,as role within the team needs to be factored, but much better then the way you are presenting the #'s.

He's 5th on his team in CA/60 -- Edit: He is 5th on his team CF% as well.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=12&type=corsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

And 5th on his team in on ice shots against.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=12&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC