Post-Game Talk: Devil IV

[mandiblesofdoom]

We like defenseman who are slow and can't defend.

Trouba train though

 

[Crease]

Brett Howden has the same amount of playoff goals (2) as Panarin, Zibanejad, Trocheck, and Kane combined.

 

[Atax]

I could see the argument that Panarin, especially Panarin, needs to do something else, but the root of the problem is that there's always 4 defenders by the time he gets it.

If the PP has a normal one, we sweep this series, and that I put on the top guys.

Not sure I like Mika on the bumper. I feel like they need to move 1 of Panarin or Kane off the PP1.

 

[Machinehead]

Our defense is, and our third line. But thats about it at this point. We “aged” fast jn going for it and bc our youngins didnt pan out.

Hopefully Othmann pans out otherwise we will be in a mini rebuild in a year or two.

Laf and Kakko really need to step it up and become more than third line players.

Kakko could settle into a nice role if they dropped the obsession with the diarrhea ass garbage f***ing overrated kid line and left him in the top six.

Lafreniere does nothing well.

 

[qwertyaas]

Not sure I like Mika on the bumper. I feel like they need to move 1 of Panarin or Kane off the PP1.

It's the obvious thing. Move one of them down to support Tarasenko.

Get Mika back on the dots and Kreider in front of the net. And move Kakko up for puck support.

And for game 5, let Fox play the whole PP. They need his vision, not Trouba.

 

[savebyrichter94]

He’s playing a Bergeron type role in the playoffs

Not playing?

 

[Graves97]

If the Rangers just got swept, maybe the "they don't care about losing" argument would at least pass the smell test.

I don't understand how one brings themself to believe they did it for two games, it worked, and *then* they went "nah, winning 5-1 was too hard."

Their offense is being shut down. Offense and perceived effort correlate 1:1. The offense is being shut down for a variety of the same reasons that have existed for multiple years.

It’s not necessarily effort as much as it’s they are mentally weak. when their gameplay doesn’t work they continue to stubbornly try the same thing over and over again while getting more dejected/frustrated which in turn leads to worsening results.

 

[LokiDog]

I watch Siegenthaler do things on defense and I'm like "you can do that?" Not even Dougie Hamilton - Jonas Siegenthaler.

Our defense's inability to skate and exit quickly in this era of hockey is astounding.

Even with Fox, the specific things I'm looking for are the most average parts of his game.

This is definitely damning and makes you wonder about development and coaching in this organization. Neither Miller nor Schneider (nor Lindgren) are particularly bad skaters but you will never see them joining the rush as fluidly as Siegenthaler, who is by zero stretch of the imagination an offensive minded D man, let alone just seamlessly snipe it bar down. It simply won’t happen. Yeah, Lindgren scored a slick goal earlier in the series but I’m talking about how organically and fluidly other teams defenders - even their ‘stay at home’ guys - are capable of joining a rush or integrating into the offense. There is virtually no reason our guys wouldn’t be able to do it, in terms of skating or even the ability to shoot the puck, but in terms of instincts, decision making, etc. it will simply never happen. Seigenthaler’s career high is 4 goals and 21 points and he looked like prime Tarasenko on that goal.

 

[Machinehead]

Not sure I like Mika on the bumper. I feel like they need to move 1 of Panarin or Kane off the PP1.

I get the argument against Mika in the bumper, but when we go into the one-timer setup, nobody moves at all.

I think the biggest problem with the PP has been entries. Very sloppy. We end up fighting for possession instead of going to work. We need to pick a guy who's making them and stick with it. The PP has three quarterbacks.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Our defense is, and our third line. But thats about it at this point. We “aged” fast jn going for it and bc our youngins didnt pan out.

Hopefully Othmann pans out otherwise we will be in a mini rebuild in a year or two.

Laf and Kakko really need to step it up and become more than third line players.

Kakko was more than a third line player when he was with Mike & Kreider. He supplied a forecheck element that line lacked. But they didn't stick with it.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

This is definitely damning and makes you wonder about development and coaching in this organization. Neither Miller nor Schneider (nor Lindgren) are particularly bad skaters but you will never see them joining the rush as fluidly as Siegenthaler, who is by zero stretch of the imagination an offensive minded D man, let alone just seamlessly snipe it bar down. It simply won’t happen. Yeah, Lindgren scored a slick goal earlier in the series but I’m talking about how organically and fluidly other teams defenders - even their ‘stay at home’ guys - are capable of joining a rush or integrating into the offense. There is virtually no reason our guys wouldn’t be able to do it, in terms of skating or even the ability to shoot the puck, but in terms of instincts, decision making, etc. it will simply never happen. Seigenthaler’s career high is 4 goals and 21 points and he looked like prime Tarasenko on that goal.

Our defense has become shell-shocked by their team speed. After the Hughes breakaway goal, there was no way they were getting caught up ice. And that completely neuters our own ability to drive offense.

The only time we looked half decent 5v5 was when we were down a goal in the late 2nd/early 3rd and Gallant actually allowed them to activate down the walls in the offensive zone. But then it all came to an end the second we tied the game.

 

[Graves97]

It's the obvious thing. Move one of them down to support Tarasenko.

Get Mika back on the dots and Kreider in front of the net. And move Kakko up for puck support.

PP2 has not distributor/puck carrier, that’s why it looks like a shitshow when they are trying to gain the zone and retain possession. I’m sure GG sees this but it’s probably an issue of hurting someone’s feelings

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Not sure I like Mika on the bumper. I feel like they need to move 1 of Panarin or Kane off the PP1.

Yes. Replace that person with Tarasenko

 

[qwertyaas]

PP2 has not distributor/puck carrier, that’s why it looks like a shitshow when they are trying to gain the zone and retain possession. I’m sure GG sees this but it’s probably an issue of hurting someone’s feelings

Fox and one of Panarin or Kane. Or like @mandiblesofdoom said, move Tank up and give 2 shot options. Either way, Kane, Panarin and Fox are a case of too many cooks. Dump one them to PP2.

Fox needs to ride the whole PP.

Let Tro play the dump and chase if needed.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

It’s not necessarily effort as much as it’s they are mentally weak. when their gameplay doesn’t work they continue to stubbornly try the same thing over and over again while getting more dejected/frustrated which in turn leads to worsening results.

that's a really good point. What looks to us as lack of effort is something else (at least in part).

 

[Machinehead]

Fair. But we didn't need elite. We threw away a bottom pairing guy that can transition to someone that absolutely can't, while increasing our cap hit significantly. Not saying Pionk is the answer.

I'm saying this org has zero clue how to build offensive talent other than through FA or the occasional lucky trade.

I wouldn't disagree with that. They teach things and stuff first and offense is "eh...hope that falls into place."

Most teams do that in exact reverse.

We're lucky Fox stepped onto the ice Larry Robinson in his own zone or he never would have made it here without giving up his offense.

 

[LokiDog]

Our defense has become shell-shocked by their team speed. After the Hughes breakaway goal, there was no way they were getting caught up ice. And that completely neuters our own ability to drive offense.

The only time we looked half decent 5v5 was when we were down a goal in the late 2nd/early 3rd and Gallant actually allowed them to activate down the walls in the offensive zone. But then it all came to an end the second we tied the game.

Yeah but this is a year round thing I’m talking about. A couple nice goals by Key not withstanding, Siegenthaler is just routinely involved in the rush or able to generate quality shots very fluidly despite not being an offensive defender. Graves and Bahl are doing it too - especially Bahl, actually. On other teams you see it quite a bit. I think you’re correct about what happened after the first goal last night, but in general I feel like we are sooo bad at moving up the ice as a unit and just don’t make the kinds of reads or quick decisions other teams do.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The part that annoys me the most, is that the devils didnt even play well yet. We are just not executing anymore… and we became allergic to hitting.

Also there is no movement on the PP again.


Need to come out flying Thursday

Nope. The Devils didnt sustain much of anything last night and all the shots were from the outside.

They did a good job of defending, but the Rangers didnt skate. They didnt hit enough. There wasnt enough emotion or desperation in their game, even when they got down in the third.

Its odd to see. Its kind of incredible actually how the game of a full team of players can deflate so much. Like how does that happen...

The one thing we do know... give Igor 3 goals and you are likely winning.

 

[McRanger92]

He’s the scapegoat. He literally saved the game when backchecked hard & tied up a Devils stick when the puck came to him right in front of our net all alone. He fired a very fast beautiful pass as soon as he got the puck on another play late in the game too (i think Trocheck?) which set up a very high danger chance. Idk maybe you guys are watching on MSG but ESPN was fawning over him and said that when they were by the Devils bench they heard them literally dictating their entire game around trying to shut him down. He’s playing hard, generating chances and going to dirty areas. Just last game he went and challenged 6’6 230lb Bahl.

I’m tired of how wrongly maligned the guy is, he’s the leading scorer in franchise history in points per game. Literally the best offensive player this original six franchise has ever had. He leads us in scoring every year and it’s just what’s expected of him and people will call it a down year. I remember when we were lucky to get 60pts out of our leading scorer. We’re already one of the least offensively skilled teams in the league, and Panarin makes up like half of that skill alone. He was analytically our best player tonight. 1st in Corsi, 1st in Fenwick, 2nd highest game score.

He has to score in the playoffs for us to have a chance. Spare me the charts. Actual >>>>> Expected in the postseason. Right now his 90 regular season points mean as much as Kravtsov getting voted 1st star in a preseason game.

 

[qwertyaas]

I wouldn't disagree with that. They teach things and stuff first and offense is "eh...hope that falls into place."

Most teams do that in exact reverse.

We're lucky Fox stepped onto the ice Larry Robinson in his own zone or he never would have made it here without giving up his offense.

That's the biggest issue. We honestly have no idea what offensive ceilings our propects have since this org punishes risk and creativity, while most other teams support it. The joy of being on a rebuild while also aiming for the playoffs. Can't risk growth against reduced revenue from missing playoffs I guess.

 

[turcotte8]

Nope. The Devils didnt sustain much of anything last night and all the shots were from the outside.

They did a good job of defending, but the Rangers didnt skate. They didnt hit enough. There wasnt enough emotion or desperation in their game, even when they got down in the third.

Its odd to see. Its kind of incredible actually how the game of a full team of players can deflate so much. Like how does that happen...

The one thing we do know... give Igor 3 goals and you are likely winning.

Agree, the Devils didn't do much of anything. They had 2 good chances and scored on both. The Rangers are beating themselves.

 

[bleedblue94]

Not sure I like Mika on the bumper. I feel like they need to move 1 of Panarin or Kane off the PP1.

been saying this forever.

if people pay attention to trends whenever mika is moved off the left dot on the powerplay his entire offensive game suffers, including 5v5. hockey is a confidence game and mika is one guy who you can always see go up and down with his confidence. his entire game increases when he is hammering pucks on the pp with his one timers. it has been a trend here since he broke out offensively and yet for some reason he seems to always be the person moved around to accommodate other players bc he never complains about anything.

 

[will1066]

Trouba train though

 

[will1066]

Our defense has become shell-shocked by their team speed. After the Hughes breakaway goal, there was no way they were getting caught up ice. And that completely neuters our own ability to drive offense.

The only time we looked half decent 5v5 was when we were down a goal in the late 2nd/early 3rd and Gallant actually allowed them to activate down the walls in the offensive zone. But then it all came to an end the second we tied the game.

It's risky to get into a track meet with them. I thought it was the right strategy to stop activating the D after it was tied and to go back to playing the chess match.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Brett Howden has the same amount of playoff goals (2) as Panarin, Zibanejad, Trocheck, and Kane combined.

Against a better goalie