Detroit Redwings Downfall

[TKB]

Raymond give away and Norris 1 on 2 against Ed and Seider. First Ed misses the poke check. Then Seider lets him shoot. Detroit nightmare as that is their top 3 guys. In regulation too. Ouch.

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Edvinsson going for and missing the pass break up left Seider in a pretty bad spot. Didn't look like much, but MO had moved over a bit to cover his guy than had to get back to Norris.

Those type of plays have been Edvinsson's bread and butter so don't want to dog him for it, but if he had just stayed with Norris (ironically the boring safe Lalonde play), it's just a 2 on 2. (or 3 on 3 if you count DeBrincat and his guy)

 

[Bank Shot]

Clearly making the playoffs is not Yzerman's intent. He could swap the coach and a few pieces and make this team much more competitive.

Listen, Laldone sucks. But this team has a core that could compete to make the playoffs under the right leadership.

The problem is some fans still believe that last season and the unsustainable shooting % wasn't a fluke.

The Red Wings were an absolutely terrible possession team last year. They are an absolutely terrible possession team again this year.

They are a long way away from competing for playoffs. Swapping the coach and tinkering around the edges won't do anything.

 

[vaspa]

Am I making it up or am I right if I recall reading somewhere that the Wings have never fired a coach mid season during the 40 years or so of Ilitch ownership?

 

[Dotter]

The problem is some fans still believe that last season and the unsustainable shooting % wasn't a fluke.

The Red Wings were an absolutely terrible possession team last year. They are an absolutely terrible possession team again this year.

They are a long way away from competing for playoffs. Swapping the coach and tinkering around the edges won't do anything.

When the team has spurts in 20 minutes of clicking and skating, you can see what they are capable of. This is happening less and less along with having the worst PK in the league. There's no cohesiveness or identity to their game. The coach lost the team.

They don't skate
They are constantly out of position
They have no confidence
They don't support each other (puck support)
They don't shoot the puck (they constantly hurried passes and giveaway), when the simple play is to just shoot and cause havok.

They quick-flip the puck whenever they get possession. You can watch old tape and compare it to how the coach has them playing now, it's losing hockey. Their play is not indicative of "lack of talent", it's lack of leadership and coaching.

I'm not saying the roster they are icing right now will win the cup, I am just saying they could be a better bubble team than what they currently are. Especially with Tampa and Boston not separating themselves from the bottom of the Atlantic.

There's no question in my mind a coaching change would be a huge positive impact. Just cleaning up bad habits and getting the team skating again would be a HUGE improvement in itself. Compare old tape (same players) to how they are playing now. You'll see exactly what I am talking about.

 

[Leafs87]

Am I making it up or am I right if I recall reading somewhere that the Wings have never fired a coach mid season during the 40 years or so of Ilitch ownership?

I don’t know, but that is likely more so due to the great coaches they had until recently and never needing to. Don’t let stats like this blind you. If they determine this team would perform better they’d make the switch

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Also, why is 6 years important? I'm looking around the league and history of the league and see 6 years is impractical. Why is 6 years the arbitrary number? Where did the idea of 6 years come from?

In what other profession do you get six years to make meaningful progress?

Again, Yzerman was hired to be special, not just another run-of-the-mill GM.

As all signs point to a 6th straight year of no playoffs, it's hard to see how Yzerman can't be considered a failure - or at the very least, wholly underwhelming.

We accepted that the first few years were going to be rough, and they were.

But there's no excuse now for a team run by the supposed best GM in hockey not to be a playoff team by year 6 in a League where literally half the teams make it in. The whole "but they've improved every year" is irrelevant.

A surgeon doesn't get to continuously operate on patients who die on the table and stay employed with "but I kept them alive for longer each time!"


Meanwhile, the fact that Lalonde still has a job after that California road trip and after this team continues to routinely get outshot and outhustled is truly mind-boggling, and has me seriously questioning what Yzerman is thinking.

 

[Dotter]

In what other profession do you get six years to make meaningful progress?

Again, Yzerman was hired to be special, not just another run-of-the-mill GM.

As all signs point to a 6th straight year of no playoffs, it's hard to see how Yzerman can't be considered a failure - or at the very least, wholly underwhelming.

We accepted that the first few years were going to be rough, and they were.

But there's no excuse now for a team run by the supposed best GM in hockey not to be a playoff team by year 6 in a League where literally half the teams make it in. The fact that they're trending toward not making it yet again means that Yzerman has put together a failed product.

I don't care about "but just wait 2-3 more years for the kids", I and most fans operate in the here and now.

Meanwhile, the fact that Lalonde still has a job after that California road trip and after this team continues to routinely get outshot and outhustled is truly mind-boggling, and has me seriously questioning what Yzerman is thinking.

I don't know.... no lottery luck, yet this seems kinda special to me..

Seider and Edvinsson as building blocks is insane.

I remember when people wanted to tar and feather Yzerman for taking Seider at #6.

Okay, so why is six years the arbitrary number to make the playoffs or bust? Who decided that? How many NHL teams went from historical worst place in modern history to a perennial playoff team in 6 years without having any top 3 draft pick?

Serious question because I don't know.

I don’t know, but that is likely more so due to the great coaches they had until recently and never needing to. Don’t let stats like this blind you. If they determine this team would perform better they’d make the switch

Dave Lewis was almost as bad as Laldone. But he was part of Ken Holland's "good ol boys" club.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's Year 6 of Steve Yzerman's GM reign, who was hired after the Red Wings missed the postseason three consecutive years. The Red Wings are the 5th worst team in the NHL after 26 games.

Everything is going perfectly to plan, clearly.

Honest question; if they were near the top after 26 games would you drop all criticism and immediately admit everything is going fine? Or would you say ”it’s just 26 games”?

Reminder; posts from last season still exist.

The problem is some fans still believe that last season and the unsustainable shooting % wasn't a fluke.

The Red Wings were an absolutely terrible possession team last year. They are an absolutely terrible possession team again this year.

They are a long way away from competing for playoffs. Swapping the coach and tinkering around the edges won't do anything.

82 games isn’t a fluke. It’s a season. If you believe a team can be a fluke for 82 games why even have an opinion on sports? Clearly any team can do anything for a full season.

 

[Indrid Cold]

The problem is some fans still believe that last season and the unsustainable shooting % wasn't a fluke.

The Red Wings were an absolutely terrible possession team last year. They are an absolutely terrible possession team again this year.

They are a long way away from competing for playoffs. Swapping the coach and tinkering around the edges won't do anything.

Sure it can. Getting rid of the plug and play, washed up veteran coach for a youth centric one can, and would 'do anything'.

 

[RickyLafleur]

Raymond looks excellent, but they need more forward help that doesn't involve over paying useless free agents.

 

[Peasy]

Someone needs to hide Yzerman's phone every July 1st. This guys FA signings are absolutely HORRIBLE. They're costing the team night in and night out.

Their drafted players are the ones doing all the heavy lifting.

 

[le_sean]

Terrible drafting….?

Signings, sure.

Yes, terrible at drafting forwards. Raymond is obviously a good player. But your team keeps whiffing on forwards. The guys picked early are not difference makers. Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno, Kasper, Danielson, MBN. It’s nice to have great young defenders, but you can’t score and your GM seems incapable of making the necessary moves to acquire the talent up front.

 

[Snuggs]

Yes, terrible at drafting forwards. Raymond is obviously a good player. But your team keeps whiffing on forwards. The guys picked early are not difference makers. Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno, Kasper, Danielson, MBN. It’s nice to have great young defenders, but you can’t score and your GM seems incapable of making the necessary moves to acquire the talent up front.

Been critical as hell as a Red Wings fan but look up what you're even talking about. Some, actually half those guys you named weren't even drafted by Yzerman.

Red Wings young players/prospects aren't the problem. Red Wings have really good prospect knocking on the door. Idk about "elite" prospects but very good players. Cossa might be the closest thing walking to a franchise goalie. Young forwards like Buchelnikov, Danielson, and Lombardi who look ready but just aren't here yet. The "elite" type prospects have already made the team except Sandin-Pellikka. (Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson)

Red Wings NEED another elite type of center/forward.

Red Wings NEED more depth/good defenders.

Fixable stuff, but not within a season. This year is shot. They need to sell all they can, picks/prospects/players/cap-space, let the veterans that roll off the roster stay off and have a real "youth" movement with 3-5 guys on the roster next year as rookies. Cherry pick signings to 1 or 2 big ones instead of spreading it all out between 4-7 players every year.

 

[Rorschach]

I wonder how much of this is Yzerman (and his crew) and how much is the owner.

 

[le_sean]

Been critical as hell as a Red Wings fan but look up what you're even talking about. Some, actually half those guys you named weren't even drafted by Yzerman.

Red Wings young players/prospects aren't the problem. Red Wings have really good prospect knocking on the door. Idk about "elite" prospects but very good players. Cossa might be the closest thing walking to a franchise goalie. Young forwards like Buchelnikov, Danielson, and Lombardi who look ready but just aren't here yet. The "elite" type prospects have already made the team except Sandin-Pellikka. (Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson)

Red Wings NEED another elite type of center/forward.

Red Wings NEED more depth/good defenders.

Fixable stuff, but not within a season. This year is shot. They need to sell all they can, picks/prospects/players/cap-space, let the veterans that roll off the roster stay off and have a real "youth" movement with 3-5 guys on the roster next year as rookies. Cherry pick signings to 1 or 2 big ones instead of spreading it all out between 4-7 players every year.

Who cares if it was Yzerman or not that drafted them? The fact remains either the Wings are bad at drafting forwards or they are bad at developing them. There’s some decent forwards, but no difference makers. I don’t know how you can argue against that.

Because of this, I assume to fix the problem, the Wings will have to trade one of their elite young defenders to get help up front. So the advantage that they had drafting great defenders is diminished because it will be used to plug holes.

They just don’t look too inspiring moving forward.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yes, terrible at drafting forwards. Raymond is obviously a good player. But your team keeps whiffing on forwards. The guys picked early are not difference makers. Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno, Kasper, Danielson, MBN. It’s nice to have great young defenders, but you can’t score and your GM seems incapable of making the necessary moves to acquire the talent up front.

Rasmussen, Zadina and Veleno had nothing to do with Yzerman. Nevermind that getting a guy who’s an NHL regular when picked in the 30s like Veleno is actually above average for that slot.

You’ve written off two 20 year olds and an 18yo as “bad picks”

While also ignoring the amazing picks he’s made at D, putting them all under the umbrella of “bad drafting”.

Truly something else.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Clearly making the playoffs is not Yzerman's intent. He could swap the coach and a few pieces and make this team much more competitive.

I sure hope not!!! But again, MAN, what a cushy job: "Yeah my plan is not to make the playoffs ever during my tensure. Sorry boss/fans. "

Anyway, another loss last night, now a bottom five team in the league. #TrustTheYzerplan.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Rasmussen, Zadina and Veleno had nothing to do with Yzerman.

Poster never said it did, never mentioned Yzerman, is this another of your goal post moves.

 

[Bank Shot]

82 games isn’t a fluke. It’s a season. If you believe a team can be a fluke for 82 games why even have an opinion on sports? Clearly any team can do anything for a full season.

Yeah it was a fluke. How many times do fans need to see the exact same scenario play out regarding shooting percentage regression before they realize 2+2=4?

 

[le_sean]

Rasmussen, Zadina and Veleno had nothing to do with Yzerman. Nevermind that getting a guy who’s an NHL regular when picked in the 30s like Veleno is actually above average for that slot.

You’ve written off two 20 year olds and an 18yo as “bad picks”

While also ignoring the amazing picks he’s made at D, putting them all under the umbrella of “bad drafting”.

Truly something else.

Great reading comprehension. It’s not "Yzerman bad" thread, it’s the Red Wings downfall. You keep pointing to Yzerman. I don’t give a f*** about him. What remains is little talent up front on the team itself and in the pipeline.

I’m not writing off 18 year olds. But if you’re actually going to claim guys like MBN and Danielson have high offensive upside, then you’re just lying to yourself.

And I didn’t ignore the picks at D, I specifically mentioned them being good at that. But if you’re only good at that, you’re not going to achieve much.

 

[Frobbo]

Honest question; if they were near the top after 26 games would you drop all criticism and immediately admit everything is going fine? Or would you say ”it’s just 26 games”?

Reminder; posts from last season still exist.


82 games isn’t a fluke. It’s a season. If you believe a team can be a fluke for 82 games why even have an opinion on sports? Clearly any team can do anything for a full season.

Couldn't disagree more with your last statement. Fluke seasons happen all the time. Caps making the playoffs last year, Colorado winning division in Roy's 1st season as coach, Nashville (this year or last, take your pick), Seattle two years ago etc. The term regression to the mean is used all the time to describe the phenomena. And yes, it can exist over an entire season.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Great reading comprehension. It’s not "Yzerman bad" thread, it’s the Red Wings downfall. You keep pointing to Yzerman. I don’t give a f*** about him. What remains is little talent up front on the team itself and in the pipeline.

I’m not writing off 18 year olds. But if you’re actually going to claim guys like MBN and Danielson have high offensive upside, then you’re just lying to yourself.

And I didn’t ignore the picks at D, I specifically mentioned them being good at that. But if you’re only good at that, you’re not going to achieve much.

Raymond is a top line offensive talent, and the 2nd best of his draft class.

Now point to me all the forwards Yzerman has missed on? I’ll wait.

How are these “bad drafting picks” before they’ve even reached full time NHL status? Nevermind that Kasper has been great so far in his limited tine

 

[le_sean]

Raymond is a top line offensive talent, and the 2nd best of his draft class.

Now point to me all the forwards Yzerman has missed on? I’ll wait.

How are these “bad drafting picks” before they’ve even reached full time NHL status? Nevermind that Kasper has been great so far in his limited tine

One of the worst offensive teams in the league, but don’t worry, we have Nate Danielson coming soon!

 

[nbwingsfan]

One of the worst offensive teams in the league, but don’t worry, we have Nate Danielson coming soon!

They have terrible depth scoring.

Guess what’s on the way? 2nd line scoring options.

I’ll ask again since you can’t seem to answer this question: who are these elite forwards Yzerman has missed in the years he didn’t take elite’s prospects?

 

[Adrianopolous]

They are horrible