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Proposal: Detroit-Anaheim

Call me crazy but I don't think Tatar + some minor throw in like Puk/Jurco gets you Fowler. I just think defenseman are at such a premium one.

People don't want to trade fowler as top 2 dmen and my response to that is you don't want to pay the price we'll keep him.

I understand that we need winger help badly and we have way too many defenseman, but we have more options to trade. Depres/Theodore/Montour/etc. all should be able to get us a decent top6 forward.

I'd suggest keeping Fowler/moving Despres now and re-evaluate at the trade deadline/before next expansion draft. I just think people are afraid to acquire an asset like fowler until they have more clarity about what their team does.

I know duck fans don't want to hear this but I think strategically it makes the most sense. As long as we can stay near playoffs, I don't panic.
 
I really liked the Tats+16OA for Fowler trade but that can't happen anymore. Still I think Tats+ is a good start. I'd definitely prefer not to move the 2017 pick because it could be top ten.

Also we need to hold onto AA and Mantha unless it's as part of a package for a true #1D, which won't happen so what pluses would Anaheim be interested in? I'd be willing to discuss any of Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinnen, Jurco, 2017 2nd-7th round picks, Ouellett, Marchenko, Jensen, Sproul, Russo, Hicketts, Frk, Lil Bert, Svechnikov as possible pieces in the trade. Some of these obviously would require pluses coming the other way (ie Tats+Svech would be a pretty valuable package and Fowler alone wouldn't cut it).
 
HisNoodliness said:
I really liked the Tats+16OA for Fowler trade but that can't happen anymore. Still I think Tats+ is a good start. I'd definitely prefer not to move the 2017 pick because it could be top ten.

Also we need to hold onto AA and Mantha unless it's as part of a package for a true #1D, which won't happen so what pluses would Anaheim be interested in? I'd be willing to discuss any of Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinnen, Jurco, 2017 2nd-7th round picks, Ouellett, Marchenko, Jensen, Sproul, Russo, Hicketts, Frk, Lil Bert, Svechnikov as possible pieces in the trade. Some of these obviously would require pluses coming the other way (ie Tats+Svech would be a pretty valuable package and Fowler alone wouldn't cut it).
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Nah... a D-corp with Kronwall, Fowler, Green and DD, a front line-up containing Nyquist, Larkin, Zetterberg, Vanek, Abdelkador, possibly AA, possibly Sheahan (depending on who is moved) and all backstopped by Mrazek, I think that line-up is too strong to finish that low. DET would be bubble team at worst.

Tats+Svech would be a pretty great package. However, BM doesn't seem to like Russians.
 
I would prefer Sheahan to be honest over Tatar/Nyquist.

Sheahan + AA/Mantha for Fowler.
 
Dirk316 said:
Doubt Anaheim wants 2 of Detroits small soft players. It would probably be just Tatar and Mantha not Pulkkinen.
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Wouldn't mind either or. With the draft of Max Jones whom a lot of people underestimate regarding potential we will be just fine. He's the big body that will carry that line just fine.

I'm not worried one bit if we add a small Forward to the mix.
 
RamsNducks said:
Wouldn't mind either or. With the draft of Max Jones whom a lot of people underestimate regarding potential we will be just fine. He's the big body that will carry that line just fine.

I'm not worried one bit if we add a small Forward to the mix.
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Jones has potential but he's a few years out IMO.
 
Birko19 said:
How many? Not that many, that's for sure.

Fowler is #3 guy in my books, though he could be a top pairing guy if he produces more which may happen. But I can also say that if Tatar was given the chance, he may also be able to produce more. This is why I think if Tatar is the price going back today, I don't think Detroit needs to add a whole lot with him.
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So it appears with what your saying their are not even 30 top pair defenseman in the NHL with how your making things sound and that is crazy.
 
anezthes said:
I would prefer Sheahan to be honest over Tatar/Nyquist.

Sheahan + AA/Mantha for Fowler.
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Look man, we can discuss Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, and even Svechnikov all you want, but Mantha and AA are non-starters. They're honestly maybe available if you talk to Ken Holland but that's because he's an idiot who prioritizes losing in the first round over ever being good again, but no one on here is going to be willing to part with them unless the return is insane.

Like think about this scenario. You post in a Fowler trade thread and you're working on a Fowler+small piece for X pieces. Then the other posters turn around and go Lindholm+small piece for X pieces. You'll of course say Limdholm is unavailable. Now theoretically I could say Larkin+Mrazek+Dekeyser+Mantha+2017 first round pick for your backup goalie+cap dumps+Lindholm and that'd get it done but I'd never do that. In the same way you'll never put forth a trade I'd accept involving Mantha and AA.
 
mytduxfan said:
Nah... a D-corp with Kronwall, Fowler, Green and DD, a front line-up containing Nyquist, Larkin, Zetterberg, Vanek, Abdelkador, possibly AA, possibly Sheahan (depending on who is moved) and all backstopped by Mrazek, I think that line-up is too strong to finish that low. DET would be bubble team at worst.

Tats+Svech would be a pretty great package. However, BM doesn't seem to like Russians.
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You're correct we'll probably be a bubble team but if Mrazek were to get hurt/have a rough year, or Z and Kronwall were to continue to decline and Blashill continued to play them constantly despite being ineffective (like he did last year) and Larkin has a sophomore slump or some combination of the above we could be pretty terrible. This team is a house of cards and next year could be the year it crumbles. That 2017 pick could be our most valuable piece and we need to hold onto it.

Yeah Tats+Svech is a pretty awesome package. It contains everything you want in a winger package. Physicality, versatility, elite potential and skill on Svech's part plus a proven top 6 winger with tenacity and skill for days on Tats's part. Plus it's all very easy on the cap and in terms of salary. It'd be a very tough package to move.

Sheahan+Tats is similar but Sheahan is more proven then Svech, is certainly a capable center, but he lacks elite potential (he'll never be more than a middle six forward). I'd consider both of those packages to be available for Fowler but we'd need another piece of some but not overwhelming value coming back.
 
HisNoodliness said:
You're correct we'll probably be a bubble team but if Mrazek were to get hurt/have a rough year, or Z and Kronwall were to continue to decline and Blashill continued to play them constantly despite being ineffective (like he did last year) and Larkin has a sophomore slump or some combination of the above we could be pretty terrible. This team is a house of cards and next year could be the year it crumbles. That 2017 pick could be our most valuable piece and we need to hold onto it.

Yeah Tats+Svech is a pretty awesome package. It contains everything you want in a winger package. Physicality, versatility, elite potential and skill on Svech's part plus a proven top 6 winger with tenacity and skill for days on Tats's part. Plus it's all very easy on the cap and in terms of salary. It'd be a very tough package to move.

Sheahan+Tats is similar but Sheahan is more proven then Svech, is certainly a capable center, but he lacks elite potential (he'll never be more than a middle six forward). I'd consider both of those packages to be available for Fowler but we'd need another piece of some but not overwhelming value coming back.
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I'd be okay moving pieces back to get a higher prospect/player.... I know wings seem to draft develope forwards well and I'd take chances with what they have.


I just don't really know their needs, picks prospects etc
 
HisNoodliness said:
Look man, we can discuss Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, and even Svechnikov all you want, but Mantha and AA are non-starters. They're honestly maybe available if you talk to Ken Holland but that's because he's an idiot who prioritizes losing in the first round over ever being good again, but no one on here is going to be willing to part with them unless the return is insane.

Like think about this scenario. You post in a Fowler trade thread and you're working on a Fowler+small piece for X pieces. Then the other posters turn around and go Lindholm+small piece for X pieces. You'll of course say Limdholm is unavailable. Now theoretically I could say Larkin+Mrazek+Dekeyser+Mantha+2017 first round pick for your backup goalie+cap dumps+Lindholm and that'd get it done but I'd never do that. In the same way you'll never put forth a trade I'd accept involving Mantha and AA.
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This is a fair comment. I'm not convinced that AA is that untouchable. However, I won't keep shoving my preferred deal down your throats.

How is Mantha looking btw? I thought I remembered him struggling the year after being drafted. However, his numbers at junior seem to suggest otherwise. His AHL numbers look pretty tasty too. Have you guys experienced issues with his speed? We had Ritchie, another big power-forward type, struggle this passed season in his 1st two stints at an NHL level. He always seemed a step behind, both physically and mentally. It's funny because his AHL numbers are fantastic too. Any similar experiences with Mantha when he was up in the NHL for 10 games this passed season?

HisNoodliness said:
You're correct we'll probably be a bubble team but if Mrazek were to get hurt/have a rough year, or Z and Kronwall were to continue to decline and Blashill continued to play them constantly despite being ineffective (like he did last year) and Larkin has a sophomore slump or some combination of the above we could be pretty terrible. This team is a house of cards and next year could be the year it crumbles. That 2017 pick could be our most valuable piece and we need to hold onto it.

Yeah Tats+Svech is a pretty awesome package. It contains everything you want in a winger package. Physicality, versatility, elite potential and skill on Svech's part plus a proven top 6 winger with tenacity and skill for days on Tats's part. Plus it's all very easy on the cap and in terms of salary. It'd be a very tough package to move.

Sheahan+Tats is similar but Sheahan is more proven then Svech, is certainly a capable center, but he lacks elite potential (he'll never be more than a middle six forward). I'd consider both of those packages to be available for Fowler but we'd need another piece of some but not overwhelming value coming back.
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Idk about Svech. I mean, he's Russian, so BM wouldn't take him anyway. However, even if he would, I'd be concerned about him. His QMJHL numbers didn't improve this year and he had a weak showing at the WJC. I'd be hesitant to take on such a pick.
 
mytduxfan said:
This is a fair comment. I'm not convinced that AA is that untouchable. However, I won't keep shoving my preferred deal down your throats.

How is Mantha looking btw? I thought I remembered him struggling the year after being drafted. However, his numbers at junior seem to suggest otherwise. His AHL numbers look pretty tasty too. Have you guys experienced issues with his speed? We had Ritchie, another big power-forward type, struggle this passed season in his 1st two stints at an NHL level. He always seemed a step behind, both physically and mentally. It's funny because his AHL numbers are fantastic too. Any similar experiences with Mantha when he was up in the NHL for 10 games this passed season?



Idk about Svech. I mean, he's Russian, so BM wouldn't take him anyway. However, even if he would, I'd be concerned about him. His QMJHL numbers didn't improve this year and he had a weak showing at the WJC. I'd be hesitant to take on such a pick.
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Yeah with AA it's hard to know how management views him but most fans are pretty attached. His potential is so high it'd be dumb to move him before he establishes what he really is.

Mantha's draft+1season was awesome. He won CHL player or forward of the year or something, carried his team almost solo to the memorial cup finals before losing, had the most goals and points in the wjc and we were all clamoring to have him make the wings. In training camp he had a bad injury and started a couple months later in the AHL where he really struggled. At first he was too far behind the play and looked really lost. This was largely that He couldn't keep up with the pace after his injury. Then after he adjusted he was honestly doing everything well but was having a hard time finding space and burying his chances. All in all it was a super disappointing year after his CHL performance.

This past year was much better. He was the Griffins best player but had similar trouble getting his numbers to match his play for the first half of the season. Then he really started to dominate and put forth a great finish. He came up to the NHL and did very well for about 3 games in a top six role. He fixed our PP that had been terrible all season. Blashill doesn't like anyone under the age of 30 though so he got demoted and spent 5 games playing 3 minutes before Holland sent him back to the AHL.

All in all Mantha is a very promising prospect that most fans love but management and coaching doesn't seem to. We're not sure if it's something behind the scenes but he seems well suited to be a top six forward who uses his size to beat defenders and has good vision and shooting. He won't be anything special defensively and underutilizes his size for hitting and such.

Svech is a little enigmatic. His offense sometimes goes but he's got lots of skill and is very good physically. He sometimes takes this a little too far. At the WJC he wasn't utilozed to his strengths very well. He's a very North- South North American style player and looked out of place on the Russian team. He just didn't understand their system very well. He's still a very promising prospect though with elite potential. Next year is his first AHL season, it'll be very telling.
 
mytduxfan said:
This is a fair comment. I'm not convinced that AA is that untouchable. However, I won't keep shoving my preferred deal down your throats.

How is Mantha looking btw? I thought I remembered him struggling the year after being drafted. However, his numbers at junior seem to suggest otherwise. His AHL numbers look pretty tasty too. Have you guys experienced issues with his speed? We had Ritchie, another big power-forward type, struggle this passed season in his 1st two stints at an NHL level. He always seemed a step behind, both physically and mentally. It's funny because his AHL numbers are fantastic too. Any similar experiences with Mantha when he was up in the NHL for 10 games this passed season?



Idk about Svech. I mean, he's Russian, so BM wouldn't take him anyway. However, even if he would, I'd be concerned about him. His QMJHL numbers didn't improve this year and he had a weak showing at the WJC. I'd be hesitant to take on such a pick.
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Mantha's developed into a nice prospect. He actually did really well his draft + 1 year which got him over hyped on the boards. I remember posts where posters claimed he would be top 3-4 in a redraft. His first year in the AHL was rough because he broke his leg. His production dropped because they were having him play a more complete game. This last year he has really stepped up and is looking like a top 6 big winger but he's still not gritty even with that 6'5" frame. Detroit has been snagging those gritty guys so I don't expect Mantha to become a power forward. We have guys like Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Sadowy, and now Smith which excel in that role.
 
HisNoodliness said:
Yeah with AA it's hard to know how management views him but most fans are pretty attached. His potential is so high it'd be dumb to move him before he establishes what he really is.

Mantha's draft+1season was awesome. He won CHL player or forward of the year or something, carried his team almost solo to the memorial cup finals before losing, had the most goals and points in the wjc and we were all clamoring to have him make the wings. In training camp he had a bad injury and started a couple months later in the AHL where he really struggled. At first he was too far behind the play and looked really lost. This was largely that He couldn't keep up with the pace after his injury. Then after he adjusted he was honestly doing everything well but was having a hard time finding space and burying his chances. All in all it was a super disappointing year after his CHL performance.

This past year was much better. He was the Griffins best player but had similar trouble getting his numbers to match his play for the first half of the season. Then he really started to dominate and put forth a great finish. He came up to the NHL and did very well for about 3 games in a top six role. He fixed our PP that had been terrible all season. Blashill doesn't like anyone under the age of 30 though so he got demoted and spent 5 games playing 3 minutes before Holland sent him back to the AHL.

All in all Mantha is a very promising prospect that most fans love but management and coaching doesn't seem to. We're not sure if it's something behind the scenes but he seems well suited to be a top six forward who uses his size to beat defenders and has good vision and shooting. He won't be anything special defensively and underutilizes his size for hitting and such.

Svech is a little enigmatic. His offense sometimes goes but he's got lots of skill and is very good physically. He sometimes takes this a little too far. At the WJC he wasn't utilozed to his strengths very well. He's a very North- South North American style player and looked out of place on the Russian team. He just didn't understand their system very well. He's still a very promising prospect though with elite potential. Next year is his first AHL season, it'll be very telling.
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BStinson said:
Mantha's developed into a nice prospect. He actually did really well his draft + 1 year which got him over hyped on the boards. I remember posts where posters claimed he would be top 3-4 in a redraft. His first year in the AHL was rough because he broke his leg. His production dropped because they were having him play a more complete game. This last year he has really stepped up and is looking like a top 6 big winger but he's still not gritty even with that 6'5" frame. Detroit has been snagging those gritty guys so I don't expect Mantha to become a power forward. We have guys like Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Sadowy, and now Smith which excel in that role.
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Cheers for this BStinson. Mantha's first AHL season sounds like Ritchie's first NHL stint, but without the injury. Ritchie was just out of shape. IMO, the kid needs to lose 10lbs. Yeah, gotta admit, I'm expecting a lot from Mantha (and Ritchie). Their AHL numbers, and the skillsets they bring are just too good for them to bust or end up bottom 6 guys. I don't see Mantha being available. However, getting in the line-up could be an issue. DET are just so stacked at forward. Meanwhile, I fully expect Ritchie to make the Ducks squad. It's at D where we have the same Mantha situation. Montour destroyed the AHL last season, but we have nowhere for him to play. Not a bad position to be in I guess.
 
Boot said:
I could see that for #1, but not even 30 defensemen good enough to be considered a #2? Those are some high standards.
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Do you want to know what my standards are for a number 2 dman? Think Brian Rafalski, Mathieu Schneider, Brent Seabrook, Kevin Shattenkirk, etc. Unless you can tell me Fowler or Trouba are in the same league as these guys today, then they're clearly not number 2 guys, at least not yet.
 
mytduxfan said:
I'd want Tatar and AA for Fowler.

I think Fowler will thrive in the faster, less physical East and particularly under the DET system. Meanwhile, I have reservations about Tatar in the West. He's a perimeter shooter and receives a fair amount of silky smooth passes leading up to most of his goals. I'm not sure he'd get that in ANA, particularly under RC - who loves the dump and chase. I'm not saying Tatar would fail in ANA, but I'm not convinced he'd be the 29 goal scorer or even the 25 goal scorer he's been in DET. Those perimeter areas are fiercely contested in the West and I'm not sure Tatar has the muscle or the volition to fight for them. It just doesn't seem like part of his game.
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Huge +1 here, duck fans need to look for big left wings as possibly coming back, not these type of players.
 
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