Proposal: Detroit-Anaheim

[dracom]

But that leaves Manson unprotected and if he continues to improve at the rate he has been improving, that could be a big loss for nothing.

Would better to lose him instead of Fowler imo.

 

[liquiduck]

But that leaves Manson unprotected and if he continues to improve at the rate he has been improving, that could be a big loss for nothing.

Not a bigger loss than fowler.

 

[tomd]

Would better to lose him instead of Fowler imo.

Hence, the need to trade Fowler and get assets for him now. Asset management 101.

 

[liquiduck]

Hence, the need to trade Fowler and get assets for him now. Asset management 101.

You realize one of Despres/manson will be lost to expansion regardless right?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We would protect Fowler, Vats, Lindholm. We would also buyout Bieksa before the draft.

Why tho were not going to be able to afford Fowler next contract, at least manson could be here awhile

 

[tomd]

You realize one of Despres/manson will be lost to expansion regardless right?

I'd protect Manson and hope that Depres sneaks thru. Manson would be a juicy target for an expansion team...young, improving, good contract. Depres carries more risk and a much higher price tag.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Not a bigger loss than fowler.

You realize one of Despres/manson will be lost to expansion regardless right?

But I thought the whole point of moving Fowler was to move in a D man who is cost controlled while getting a forward at the same time?

 

[liquiduck]

But I thought the whole point of moving Fowler was to move in a D man who is cost controlled while getting a forward at the same time?

It is. Which doesn't really matter if we aren't getting the return that makes the team better. This team also needs to win right now.

 

[liquiduck]

Why tho were not going to be able to afford Fowler next contract, at least manson could be here awhile

Tons of money comes off the year Fowler's contract is due.

I'd protect Manson and hope that Depres sneaks thru. Manson would be a juicy target for an expansion team...young, improving, good contract. Depres carries more risk and a much higher price tag.

He carries more risk now because of the injuries. What happens if he returns to 14-15 Despres? Manson isn't that young, he's older than Fowler.

 

[Hammettf2b]

It is. Which doesn't really matter if we aren't getting the return that makes the team better. This team also needs to win right now.

So Fowler is that much better than Vatanen? Because Ducks fans were ok with a Tatar + pick for Vatanen for a win now mode but not ok with Tatar for Fowler because it wouldn't be in a win now mode.

 

[liquiduck]

So Fowler is that much better than Vatanen? Because Ducks fans were ok with a Tatar + pick for Vatanen for a win now mode but not ok with Tatar for Fowler because it wouldn't be in a win now mode.

I'm simply saying the return needs to be right.

No, Fowler for Tatar straight across isn't going to get it done. I wouldn't think Tatar + a small add does it either.

This is all under the assumption that BM wants a win now piece. Maybe the Lindholm and Rakell contracts force him into a return including futures.

Either way I don't expect anything to get done untill the RFA's are signed.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm simply saying the return needs to be right.

No, Fowler for Tatar straight across isn't going to get it done. I wouldn't think Tatar + a small add does it either.

This is all under the assumption that BM wants a win now piece. Maybe the Lindholm and Rakell contracts force him into a return including futures.

Either way I don't expect anything to get done untill the RFA's are signed.

That wasn't my point. My point was Tatar was good enough for the win now mode crowd when Vatanen was involved. Now that Fowler is involved, Tatar is suddenly not good enough for the win now mode crew. So I was simply asking if Fowler was indeed that much better than Vatanen to justify that thinking.

 

[McDonald19]

That wasn't my point. My point was Tatar was good enough for the win now mode crowd when Vatanen was involved. Now that Fowler is involved, Tatar is suddenly not good enough for the win now mode crew. So I was simply asking if Fowler was indeed that much better than Vatanen to justify that thinking.

Fowler has higher value than Vatanen. Yes.

 

[liquiduck]

That wasn't my point. My point was Tatar was good enough for the win now mode crowd when Vatanen was involved. Now that Fowler is involved, Tatar is suddenly not good enough for the win now mode crew. So I was simply asking if Fowler was indeed that much better than Vatanen to justify that thinking.

Yes, fowler holds more value to us than Vatanen. Well, most of us anyways.


Having said that I've only seen one ducks fan say Tatar wasn't a good enough piece.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Yes, fowler holds more value to us than Vatanen. Well, most of us anyways.


Having said that I've only seen one ducks fan say Tatar wasn't a good enough piece.

Which was you

I'm simply saying the return needs to be right.

No, Fowler for Tatar straight across isn't going to get it done. I wouldn't think Tatar + a small add does it either.

This is all under the assumption that BM wants a win now piece. Maybe the Lindholm and Rakell contracts force him into a return including futures.

Either way I don't expect anything to get done untill the RFA's are signed.

So if i'm getting this correctly, you believe the difference between Vatanen and Fowler is Mantha/AA? Because as I said before Tatar + pick was good enough for Vatanen and as you said, that is not the case for Fowler.

 

[liquiduck]

Which was you



So if i'm getting this correctly, you believe the difference between Vatanen and Fowler is Mantha/AA? Because as I said before Tatar + pick was good enough for Vatanen and as you said, that is not the case for Fowler.

I don't understand what you're having a hard time with.

I've never said anywhere Tatar wasnt a good enough piece.

"Piece" as in by himself, Tatar is not enough.


And yes, again, fowler holds more value, moderately more value than Vatanen.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm simply saying the return needs to be right.

No, Fowler for Tatar straight across isn't going to get it done. I wouldn't think Tatar + a small add does it either.

This is all under the assumption that BM wants a win now piece. Maybe the Lindholm and Rakell contracts force him into a return including futures.

Either way I don't expect anything to get done untill the RFA's are signed.

I don't understand what you're having a hard time with.

I've never said anywhere Tatar wasnt a good enough piece.

Then what do you mean from the bolded?

 

[liquiduck]

I don't understand what you're having a hard time with.

I've never said anywhere Tatar wasnt a good enough piece.

"Piece" as in by himself, Tatar is not enough.


And yes, again, fowler holds more value, moderately more value than Vatanen.

Then what do you mean from the bolded?

....

 

[Hammettf2b]

I don't understand what you're having a hard time with.

I've never said anywhere Tatar wasnt a good enough piece.

"Piece" as in by himself, Tatar is not enough.


And yes, again, fowler holds more value, moderately more value than Vatanen.

Ok, not enough by himself. That's why I asked if you thought the difference between Vatanen and Fowler = Mantha/AA?

 

[liquiduck]

Ok, not enough by himself. That's why I asked if you thought the difference between Vatanen and Fowler = Mantha/AA?

Most of the proposals I saw on here for Vats where tatar + 2nd.

In which case yes. The value gap between the two is most definitely something like AA, Mantha, Sheahan ect

 

[Hammettf2b]

Most of the proposals I saw on here for Vats where tatar + 2nd.

In which case yes. The value gap between the two is most definitely something like AA, Mantha, Sheahan ect

I wouldn't mind Sheahan being thrown into the mix, but AA/Mantha is a different story. I honestly do feel that a trade of Tatar + Sheahan for Fowler makes both teams better.

 

[liquiduck]

I wouldn't mind Sheahan being thrown into the mix, but AA/Mantha is a different story. I honestly do feel that a trade of Tatar + Sheahan for Fowler makes both teams better.

Sure, that wouldn't be a bad deal for either side I don't think.

Some Anaheim fans would want more, which I understand.

I guess we'll see.

 

[caliamad]

Value is so relative. With 2 years left in his deal and 5 on vats, I'd say vats the more valuable asset.

Based on purely skills, it also based on need. With Theodore and Montour and Larson in the wings u think both are replaceable but finding a defensive mobile guy like fowler is probably harder.

But it's a toss up really.

Before this year many ducks fans were on with Tatar + small add, but after looking at finances, thinking of expansion, seeing what hall went for, Tatar is no longer am ideal choice.

We really need a talent on an etc/ controlled. Tatar is a rfa next year and we don't expect having better finances next year so he just is so so option.

Personally I want Sheahan and a great forward prospect who could make top 6 next year.

 

[liquiduck]

Value is so relative. With 2 years left in his deal and 5 on vats, I'd say vats the more valuable asset.

Based on purely skills, it also based on need. With Theodore and Montour and Larson in the wings u think both are replaceable but finding a defensive mobile guy like fowler is probably harder.

But it's a toss up really.

Before this year many ducks fans were on with Tatar + small add, but after looking at finances, thinking of expansion, seeing what hall went for, Tatar is no longer am ideal choice.

We really need a talent on an etc/ controlled. Tatar is a rfa next year and we don't expect having better finances next year so he just is so so option.

Personally I want Sheahan and a great forward prospect who could make top 6 next year.

Vats is only signed for 4 years. 2 of those years he's actually going to cost more than Fowler. So the actual money you save on someone like Vats over Fowler isn't going to be that significant.

 

[duckpuck]

You guys sure are great at contradicting yourselves. A proven top F is a must for Fowler, now its an unproven prospect. Since when is that more valuable than a proven forward who is still relatively young? Tatar and Nyquist are the best pieces for Detroit to move. They are kinda in a retool/rebuild whatever you wanna call it, those two will probably be out of their prime by the time Wings are ready to contend again.

Ducks need to make this trade a lot more than Detroit. Wings aren't contending for a cup this year regardless, Ducks have a chance. You need scoring help and there aren't many other places your gonna find that help at this point. If you'd rather keep Fowler and leave little to no ice time for your young, upcoming D and have no secondary scoring then that's your choice. Wings have little reason to budge and add on one of their top prospects.

I was referring to a trade of Tartar/Nyquist + AA/Mantha for Fowler + (something). I never said it the trade would involve only prospects coming back to the Ducks. The bottom line is Tartar/Nyquist are probably rentals or perhaps expansion draft offerings since the ducks won't likely be able to resign them long term