Details Surrounding Nazem Kadri Trade

[SmoggyTwinkles]

In his new book "Dreamer: My Life On The Edge" Nazem Kadri goes into detail about the circumstances around the trade that saw him leave Toronto. Suffice to say then GM Kyle Dubas and the rest of the Leafs brass at the time come out looking pretty duplicitous.

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https://x.com/i/web/status/1849183278177149178

Now I'm not going to front, I wanted Kadri dealt after his second straight playoff suspension. However, the way with which the Leafs went about doing it is so scummy. Why lie to the guy and say he's still part of the future here when you were planning to deal him? Why are Calgary players and management brought in to try and convince him to waive his NTC? You're own players get confused and the guy you lied to has to cover your ass? And all this when the dude's wife is about to have a kid and thinks he's not going anywhere.

All this secrecy and sneaking to ultimately rush a trade for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot.

The awesome thing is he vetoe's the Calgary trade, wins a cup with the Av's, then signs a monster contract with Calgary.

Not bad Kadri, not bad!

 

[Rare Jewel]

Well, this thread is going about how I figured...


What I would say is that this whole Kadri hurt the team thing, while not incorrect, seemingly fails to acknowledge that no one else had the balls to do anything against Boston, so instead of playing tough as a team, it just manifested as an explosive and bad hit made out of frustration in 2018.

The fact that management didn't realize this address was another mark against them for failing to realize the causality of the first event.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Eh...

We did come out on the short end of that trade, both due to Kadri and Dubas, and he did go on to win a Cup.

But would you want to be paying him 7 until he's 39? I wouldn't.

Likewise it sucks that his wife was due at the time, but he had the resources to hire cross-country movers and fly his wife and newborn baby private to Colorado.

It could have been handled better on either side but it's not really an issue, I still with him success.

 

[notbias]

Well, this thread is going about how I figured...


What I would say is that this whole Kadri hurt the team thing, while not incorrect, seemingly fails to acknowledge that no one else had the balls to do anything against Boston, so instead of playing tough as a team, it just manifested as an explosive and bad hit made out of frustration in 2018.

The fact that management didn't realize this address was another mark against them for failing to realize the causality of the first event.

There are options between doing nothing and cross-checking someone in the face.

They've added "tough guys" every year...

 

[HockeyVirus]

Not to interrupt the Dubas hate, but isn't it possible he regrets how he handled that and was still pretty new as a GM when that happened? I would be surprised if Dubas today handled it the same as 2nd year as a GM with market pressure to make big changes Dubas.

 

[Rare Jewel]

There are options between doing nothing and cross-checking someone in the face.

They've added "tough guys" every year...

Yeah, one guy, though, and the rest of the team is getting bullied...


Who were these "tough guys?"

 

[notbias]

Yeah, one guy, though, and the rest of the team is getting bullied...


Who were these tough guys?

Simmonds and Clifford both were on the team for multiple years.

Who was going to fight Debrusk? He doesn't fight, so the answer is no one.

There are ways to react to dirty plays or getting bullied, and cross-checking someone in the face is likely the dumbest.

Kadri got suspended because he is a hothead, he should have just forced him to fight if he thought it was the answer.

Kadri being upset is understandable, and I think the suspension was over the top, those are all things I agree with, but he still is the reason he got suspended.

 

[therealkoho]

Not to interrupt the Dubas hate, but isn't it possible he regrets how he handled that and was still pretty new as a GM when that happened? I would be surprised if Dubas today handled it the same as 2nd year as a GM with market pressure to make big changes Dubas.

Yeah true I suppose, but even with that hindsight he still had the balls to ask for 5m per supposedly, lie bald faced to the media, play the crying game regarding his poor poor wife and lil chillun,as the hard done by guy, and then trot off to Pittsburgh forgetting about the wife and kidd, meanwhile poaching a couple of guys in the process, lord knows what he told them he could do for them as team prez?

 

[Dekes For Days]

There are options between doing nothing and cross-checking someone in the face.

He'd also been getting suspended since 2013, and continued to get suspended in the playoffs in Colorado. People trying to pretend like it's a team composition thing is hilarious.

 

[therealkoho]

There are options between doing nothing and cross-checking someone in the face.

They've added "tough guys" every year...

Yes they have, but for those that knew the answer was team toughness meant more then just having a Sherman tank in the lineup As was stated over and over again.

Instead we get Denis Malgin, Tyson Barrie and a host of others who have turtle in their 23 and me!

 

[notbias]

Yes they have, but for those that knew the answer was team toughness meant more then just having a Sherman tank in the lineup As was stated over and over again.

Instead we get Denis Malgin, Tyson Barrie and a host of others who have turtle in their 23 and me!

The answer to our scoring problems every playoff is team toughness? Nope.

You also left off Lub, Muzzin, McCabe, ROR, Acciari, Clifford, Simmonds, Foligno, etc

 

[Rare Jewel]

Simmonds and Clifford both were on the team for multiple years.

And, which one of those guys was there in the 2019 series against Boston?

Who was going to fight Debrusk? He doesn't fight, so the answer is no one.

There are ways to react to dirty plays or getting bullied, and cross-checking someone in the face is likely the dumbest.

It's not about fighting; it's about general play. There's a heightened level of aggressivity in the playoffs (particularly against the Bruins) that KD couldn't get his head around.

 

[therealkoho]

The answer to our scoring problems every playoff is team toughness? Nope.

You also left off Lub, Muzzin, McCabe, ROR, Acciari, Clifford, Simmonds, Foligno, etc

If and it's a big one, if we bang their primary scoring harder than they bang ours it should follow that they will eventually lose the will to play through the gauntlet and get to the middle of the ice, which allows us access to theirs.

But and it's also a big one it has to start at the top. Even the mice need to kick the elephant in the shins however many times it takes to make the elephant think it just isn't worth the pain

 

[notbias]

It's not about fighting; it's about general play. There's a heightened level of aggressivity in the playoffs (particularly against the Bruins) that KD couldn't get his head around.

100% agree, it is why the toughest teams always win... oh wait, that's not true.

Bruins were not the tougher team or more aggressive last year and they beat us...

If and it's a big one, if we bang their primary scoring harder than they bang ours it should follow that they will eventually lose the will to play through the gauntlet and get to the middle of the ice, which allows us access to theirs.

Do you think hitting someone is supposed to deter them from playing?

The physical players we acquired wouldn't be playing against top players, let alone catching up to them and hitting them.

 

[therealkoho]

100% agree, it is why the toughest teams always win... oh wait, that's not true.

Bruins were not the tougher team or more aggressive last year and they beat us...



Do you think hitting someone is supposed to deter them from playing?

The physical players we acquired wouldn't be playing against top players, let alone catching up to them and hitting them.

Last I looked Marchand Pasta and whoever has been the centre have been absolute killers, same with Tampa and Florida's top lines. They have all outscored their individual opposition, not because they're extraordinarily skilled or nice it's because they hammer, grind and out dirty the opponent.

So yeah hitting is a deterrent.

Ron Murphy once told me that the Hodge Esposito, Murphy line scored not just because they at that time were not only the biggest line in the NHL but also willing at all times to do whatever they had to do to make space for themselves. They also got crazier and close to unstoppable when Cashman was substituted in for Murph.

Hockey has always been a game of intimidation and skill, in that order

 

[notbias]

Last I looked Marchand Pasta and whoever has been the centre have been absolute killers, same with Tampa and Florida's top lines. They have all outscored their individual opposition, not because they're extraordinarily skilled or nice it's because they hammer, grind and out dirty the opponent.

So yeah hitting is a deterrent.

Ron Murphy once told me that the Hodge Esposito, Murphy line scored not just because they at that time were not only the biggest line in the NHL but also willing at all times to do whatever they had to do to make space for themselves. They also got crazier and close to unstoppable when Cashman was substituted in for Murph.

Hockey has always been a game of intimidation and skill, in that order

Ya, I am not concerned with what an NHL player said in the 60's about today's game.

 

[Rare Jewel]

100% agree, it is why the toughest teams always win... oh wait, that's not true.

Bruins were not the tougher team or more aggressive last year and they beat us...

Not what I said at all, but okay.


Anyway, toughness isn't defined as just a physical attribute; this team has had neither physical nor, possibly more importantly, no emotional or psychological toughness.

Boston had both in 2018 and 2019, and last year, more of the latter; however, that is still subjective because I didn't find the Leafs particularly more psychical than Boston last year, but that ever makes you feel better, I suppose...

 

[notbias]

Not what I said at all, but okay.


Anyway, toughness isn't defined as just a physical attribute; this team has had neither physical nor, possibly more importantly, no emotional or psychological toughness.

Boston had both in 2018 and 2019, and last year, more of the latter; however, that is still subjective because I didn't find the Leafs particularly more psychical than Boston last year, but that ever makes you feel better, I suppose...

Throwing out random things that can't be measured makes this conversation pointless.

Give me the stats of every players mental toughness and then we can decide who had more.

 

[1specter]

I don't think anyone ever questioned Kadri's passion for being a Leaf... it was his inability to keep his game in check when the emotions got high. You can't hit Tommy Wingels when he's on his knees, facing the boards.... and you cannot cross check a guy in the face, especially not if you're Nazem Kadri with a long list of disciplinary action.

Yeah, it was a stupid trade, but you look at just how good that Leafs team was the year they had Tavares (47 goals), Matthews and Kadri up the middle.... the matchup problems that trio created for Boston... and how neutered the lineup became after the suspension, and you can't really blame them for deciding it was time to move on.

Except you can, other players do stuff like this and face no repercussions for said behaviour.







This is what I mean that a bunch of folks here don't seem to get, when they blame it all on Kadri saying that he was just a selfish player or an undisciplined hothead etc. Bennett, Marchand, Wilson etc have done some really egregious things that have been just as bad if not worse, and have received far less punishment in return. The league's lack of consistency with these things created an imbalance and it seemed like Kadri got targeted more, perhaps because he was also a Leaf on the biggest stage with the most attention, and in general what seems to be Parros' dislike for this team.

What made Naz unique was that he played with passion and intensity, and that was what gave him an edge and made him an invaluable player. He towed that line, but everyone wants a guy like that on their team. What really 'neutered' the team in the end was removing a cost controlled piece who was beloved in the room and had that extra edge, and not only did the Leafs lose that element but in the process Dubas also ripped out a key leader of the team and a heart and soul guy and brought in another soft, defensively weak guy on an expiring deal as the primary piece coming back.

Well, this thread is going about how I figured...


What I would say is that this whole Kadri hurt the team thing, while not incorrect, seemingly fails to acknowledge that no one else had the balls to do anything against Boston, so instead of playing tough as a team, it just manifested as an explosive and bad hit made out of frustration in 2018.

The fact that management didn't realize this address was another mark against them for failing to realize the causality of the first event.

Yup, this is exactly what I'm trying to convey. Do I wish Naz had just dropped the gloves instead? Yes, but it seemed like out of our star / impact players, the onus was always on him to be the sparkplug and guy who asserted physicality. The only other one who would step in at times would be Morgan Rielly. The culture here has been embarrassing and it was propagated by management and coaching. They tell the team to 'play clean' and not get penalized, but when they realized this approach made them too soft, they then wanted them to mix it up more and get more physically involved, and tried to do this by bringing in replacement level bruisers to round out the edges of the roster with Simmonds, Clifford etc or making deadline acquisitions like Foligno who weren't part of the team's nucleus. But then you watch in scrums where Matthews, Marner, Nylander, JT don't stand up for themselves or just show a spine. I am not asking these guys to fight or even be a dirty thug like Marchand, but simply just show some f***ing backbone. Stamkos / Kuch / Point weren't afraid to get involved or be agitating despite their smaller size and being branded as skilled players. Ovi, Sid, MacK etc as well learned to fight back and not shy away from the physicality of the game. It is important to establish that identity and show that you won't get pushed around easily, every single team that has won has pretty much had this element. You don't need to be goons or fighters, just play with some god damn pride.

People blamed Kadri, demanded he be traded etc, then they clamor for the exact same qualities and type of player he was later on when they saw how gutless this group was.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Throwing out random things that can't be measured makes this conversation pointless.

Give me the stats of every players mental toughness and then we can decide who had more.

Why do you need stats to have a conversation? Can't we go off what we saw and continued to see under KD?

Are four first-round exits and a feeble second-round exit under KD, not good enough indications that the team's mentality relative to talent wasn't sufficient?

You did say in a prior post that "tough guys" were acquired, so what's the issue?

 

[hotpaws]

Not to interrupt the Dubas hate, but isn't it possible he regrets how he handled that and was still pretty new as a GM when that happened? I would be surprised if Dubas today handled it the same as 2nd year as a GM with market pressure to make big changes Dubas.

sorry to interrupt the Dubas love in and while anything is possible you'd have to be the stick handler or very biased level Dubas worshipper to continue to believe his golly g schtick after his last presser as a Leaf that led him to be fired as well as trying to back stab the guy he owes his career too

and the Dumpster's problem isn't that he was inexperienced it's that he was and still is incompetent