Contract Termination: [DET] Red Wings terminate contract of F Filip Zadina

[LeapOnOver]

Everything ever said about him is that he works really hard. It’s not a laziness thing. His problem is the exact same problem many very skilled 17-18 year old wingers have… who ultimately bust in the NHL.

He is an outside player, and even though he’ll play in traffic, he can’t create space (he needs to score) in traffic. It’s very unique to the NHL because of the speed/skill level of your opponents.

A lot of people wrongly assume, that creating space is a speed or quickness thing. Far from it. It’s a feel for the game in traffic. It’s a muscle memory type thing that takes years to develop. Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille we’re natural wingers who created space in traffic. Michkov has the same exact issue as Zadina, Yakupov, and even Benson in this draft. Everything starts from the outside, because frankly, there’s space on the outside in every other league not called the NHL.

It’s also why you see a lot of natural Cs end up playing wing in the NHL. Especially smaller, quicker wingers. Guys like Nyquist, Tatar, etc, we’re Cs before coming over. They’d had years of experience playing inside, where you naturally develop the feel for creating space.

In the NHL you just don’t have that time and space (on the outside) you have in every other league in the world.. Still today, you watch Zadina’s shot and you think, how does he not score more?

It really is a coin-flip drafting skilled wingers. It sucks, but we just don’t know until they play in the NHL. In Michkov’s case, he may absolutely be able to do it. The problem is, we just won’t know until he plays games in the NHL. That was the case with Zadina too. Obviously different type of skilled players but skilled nevertheless. Both outside players.

So sometimes, it’s really hard to pass these guys up because they are so skilled. You cross your fingers and hope they’ll be able to create space in a league with no space. Like I said, a lot of it is natural feel for the game. So while you can develop the skill, it’s not a repetitive type training. Only game action (in the NHL) really allows you to train yourself IF you’re a natural skilled winger who plays an outside game and can’t do it yet.. That’s also why it’s not a concern with a player like Leonard. He plays an inside/out game. So he’s used to playing in traffic more. Most skilled wingers are outside players though. Especially from Europe. My concern with Michkov, is that nobody in the KHL will be helping him to develop a skill for the Flyers. So if he does struggle with it today, he’s going to spend the next 3 years not working on it, because in the KHL, Dmen collapse far too much. Skilled players don’t have to create that space. That was Zadina… and he still can’t do it 5-6 years later.

Unfortunately he won’t be the last outside, natural winger who busts.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. I was talking more about their effort in training off the ice, not hustling during game action, btw.

 

[PullHard]

Are you calling Michkov and Benson busting on Philly and Buffalo?

How on earth could you read that post and come to that conclusion?

 

[24 others]

Everything ever said about him is that he works really hard. It’s not a laziness thing. His problem is the exact same problem many very skilled 17-18 year old wingers have… who ultimately bust in the NHL.

He is an outside player, and even though he’ll play in traffic, he can’t create space (he needs to score) in traffic. It’s very unique to the NHL because of the speed/skill level of your opponents.

A lot of people wrongly assume, that creating space is a speed or quickness thing. Far from it. It’s a feel for the game in traffic. It’s a muscle memory type thing that takes years to develop. Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille we’re natural wingers who created space in traffic. Michkov has the same exact issue as Zadina, Yakupov, and even Benson in this draft. Everything starts from the outside, because frankly, there’s space on the outside in every other league not called the NHL.

It’s also why you see a lot of natural Cs end up playing wing in the NHL. Especially smaller, quicker wingers. Guys like Nyquist, Tatar, etc, we’re Cs before coming over. They’d had years of experience playing inside, where you naturally develop the feel for creating space.

In the NHL you just don’t have that time and space (on the outside) you have in every other league in the world.. Still today, you watch Zadina’s shot and you think, how does he not score more?

It really is a coin-flip drafting skilled wingers. It sucks, but we just don’t know until they play in the NHL. In Michkov’s case, he may absolutely be able to do it. The problem is, we just won’t know until he plays games in the NHL. That was the case with Zadina too. Obviously different type of skilled players but skilled nevertheless. Both outside players.

So sometimes, it’s really hard to pass these guys up because they are so skilled. You cross your fingers and hope they’ll be able to create space in a league with no space. Like I said, a lot of it is natural feel for the game. So while you can develop the skill, it’s not a repetitive type training. Only game action (in the NHL) really allows you to train yourself IF you’re a natural skilled winger who plays an outside game and can’t do it yet.. That’s also why it’s not a concern with a player like Leonard. He plays an inside/out game. So he’s used to playing in traffic more. Most skilled wingers are outside players though. Especially from Europe. My concern with Michkov, is that nobody in the KHL will be helping him to develop a skill for the Flyers. So if he does struggle with it today, he’s going to spend the next 3 years not working on it, because in the KHL, Dmen collapse far too much. Skilled players don’t have to create that space. That was Zadina… and he still can’t do it 5-6 years later.

Unfortunately he won’t be the last outside, natural winger who busts.

Thanks, that's a great post.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Shot is notoriously difficult to project as players move up levels.

I'm not sure I agree. Goal scoring is hard to project, but when a scout sees a pro-release, they know what they're seeing at any level. What can be hard is projecting whether a goal scorer can find space at the pro level. But a good shot is a good shot.

This is all what makes Zadina so mystifying.

Quinn Hughes was never projected to go in the top 5, he was a black horse to go there because of his offensive potential but I remember people considering him too risky for a top 5 pick. Detroit was his expected destination because of roots and the fact that they needed a top dman. Then Zadina "fell into their laps" which was a devil in disguise. Hindsight is another thing but guys like Tkachuk and Hughes were really polarizing at the time, Zadina wasn't.

As a draft watcher and Canucks fan, it was shocking when Hughes made it to us and it only happened because of KK and Hayton being picked out of left field. Hughes was supposed to go about 5th and we picked 7th.

 

[Oddbob]

I'm not sure I agree. Goal scoring is hard to project, but when a scout sees a pro-release, they know what they're seeing at any level. What can be hard is projecting whether a goal scorer can find space at the pro level. But a good shot is a good shot.

This is all what makes Zadina so mystifying.


As a draft watcher and Canucks fan, it was shocking when Hughes made it to us and it only happened because of KK and Hayton being picked out of left field. Hughes was supposed to go about 5th and we picked 7th.

Zadina has a terrible time getting into open space. Not sure why, but he is always super close to his teammates when they have the puck in the offensive zone, leaving very little room to do anything if they pass to him. His shot is not good as far NHL shots go, especially his slapper/one-timer. He also gets frustrated every time he gets even an ok chance and doesn't score, instead of just forgetting it and trying again, and he doesn't really put any deception in his shots. He just gets it and shoots it pretty much right away which for even bad NHL goalies is easy to stop most of the time.

He does give good effort out there though in both ends of the rink. He can make some really solid defensive plays to break up passes and attacks, but is also a little inconsistent at that.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Zadina has a terrible time getting into open space. Not sure why, but he is always super close to his teammates when they have the puck in the offensive zone, leaving very little room to do anything if they pass to him. His shot is not good as far NHL shots go, especially his slapper/one-timer. He also gets frustrated every time he gets even an ok chance and doesn't score, instead of just forgetting it and trying again, and he doesn't really put any deception in his shots. He just gets it and shoots it pretty much right away which for even bad NHL goalies is easy to stop most of the time.

He does give good effort out there though in both ends of the rink. He can make some really solid defensive plays to break up passes and attacks, but is also a little inconsistent at that.

He's a guy where I wonder what impact a solid stretch of even like 5 goals in 7 games would do for his confidence.

It seems like he is just full of doubt which makes you second guess yourself and makes you largely useless.

He might be clustering like that because his confidence is so low that on a sub-conscious level he doesn't actually want the puck because he doesn't trust himself.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He's a guy where I wonder what impact a solid stretch of even like 5 goals in 7 games would do for his confidence.

It seems like he is just full of doubt which makes you second guess yourself and makes you largely useless.

He might be clustering like that because his confidence is so low that on a sub-conscious level he doesn't actually want the puck because he doesn't trust himself.

He’s had good stretches of hockey, his problems lie deeper than just confidence. Never seen a player whiff on more good chances, breakaways, open nets, or shoot straight into a goalie’s chest. It’s something IQ related because he has a good shot, but in game situations he can’t make it work consistently.

 

[Patagonia]

I thought this player could develop, scouting had concerns on lack of quickness and perimeter type play. Coachable problems and believed this was a good pick. Good size and decent shot. Maybe he needs coaching or better C and Winger to open space.

Still young and doubt he clears waivers. I thought he would have been packaged in a trade to get some assets.

 

[DJB]

You can tell that Zadina wants to be an impact top 6 forward in the NHL and a goal scorer with the way he plays and he’s getting down on himself and frustrated which only further hampers his play

The sooner he realizes that maybe he can carve out an NHL roles as a two way 3rd line guy he will settle down and likely improve as a player .

Just my opinion

 

[Go Wings]

If you take Dobson you probably don't take Seider though, he was projecting like a #1/2 RHD

Hard to say. If Seider was the best available on Detroit's list they may still take him.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Zadina built a mount Everest of bad karma from day one, it appears.

 

[BruinLVGA]

So this is about the time that the Prague Bruins put a claim in on him right? Try to pull a Zacha 2.0 and put him with Zacha and Pastrnak? Doesn't look like Krejci is coming back and Bertuzzi left as well.

Zadina - Zacha - Pastrnak

Czeching Line 2.0.

At 1.8M per (for two years, too!), there‘s a higher chance that a flying saucer lands on top of TD Garden.

 

[norrisnick]

You can tell that Zadina wants to be an impact top 6 forward in the NHL and a goal scorer with the way he plays and he’s getting down on himself and frustrated which only further hampers his play

The sooner he realizes that maybe he can carve out an NHL roles as a two way 3rd line guy he will settle down and likely improve as a player .

Just my opinion

Really makes me question just what the f*** it is that Cleary is getting paid to do...

 

[BruinLVGA]

Hope he falls to Boston by some chance in hell.

Do not want.

 

[sxvnert]

Zadina built a mount Everest of bad karma from day one, it appears.

She mistakes swagger for delusion.

 

[General Disarray]

3 x $1.8M?

Damn bro you right. Earth shatteringly bad.

Must be bad enough that Yzerman put him on waivers

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Sometimes player needs change of scenery, look at Zacha. At 1.8 milion tho i can´t see anyone claiming him.

 

[smirob]

I’d gamble on him as a habs fan…he can fill the net with pucks at the end of every practice

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I’d gamble on him as a habs fan…he can fill the net with pucks at the end of every practice

That would be great! He would finally fill your nets with pucks!
At the practice

 

[Seider and Donuts]

Must be bad enough that Yzerman put him on waivers

Or you could just read the thread and find that he asked for a trade and nobody took him, so Yzerman waived him to accommodate him.

 

[General Disarray]

Or you could just read the thread and find that he asked for a trade and nobody took him, so Yzerman waived him to accommodate him.

Why didn't anyone take him? Isn't it a good contract?

 

[burstnbloom]

Zadina is so interesting to me. Admittedly, I haven't been watching a lot of red wings games since he was drafted other than when they play my team but it seems consensus by those that do that he's not a player. Sometimes that is sour grapes by the fanbase that drafted the "bust" (I see Devils fans re: Zacha) and sometimes its justified (the bruins fan base and ZS).

Looking into the numbers on this player, its easy to talk yourself into giving him a chance in a different environment.

It appears like there is a fair amount of defensive value here but he played a lot with Pius Suter, who is a good defender. The rest of his most common linemates over the last couple of years are really bad players and he was deployed in a defensive posture against low level competition. There's also a lot of "bad luck" in his profile when it comes to shooting for both him and the Red Wings when he's on the ice.

I think you could make the argument that a more favorable deployment with more offensively minded players could unlock something for this kid but there's some really alarming shooting talent numbers for him that I think is backed up by Red Wings fans in this thread. He has had so many injuries and he appears to be shot averse (this is likely the won't go inside anecdotal stuff we've read by some really good posts in this thread) that it's hard to even conceptualize what kind of player he could be. Injuries + low shot volume + unsustainable poor s% luck individually + unsustainable poor s% luck on ice + poor teammate quality + low level opposition quality = mysterious player. I will say though, his low shot volume + very poor s% could just mean he's not an NHL player in any environment.

I'd like to see him get another shot somewhere else but I don't think I would pay $1.8m in this cap environment to find out. I thought 16ish teams would claim him before I looked into it but now I think he likely clears. I hope they find a way to get him somewhere else so we can see if he can shake out a career for himself.

 

[Seider and Donuts]

Why didn't anyone take him? Isn't it a good contract?

Pretty sure we haven't found out if anybody's take him yet.

Think the greater point (Highlighted a few replies ago) is that if a $2M contract to a developing rookie is your "LOL YZERMAN" evidence, you're pretty pathetic.

Maybe go drag your nuts on one of the UFA signings this week instead. Then we can talk about how adding depth with zero risk of hurting the team's cap structure somehow is a bad thing.

 

[norrisnick]

Zadina is so interesting to me. Admittedly, I haven't been watching a lot of red wings games since he was drafted other than when they play my team but it seems consensus by those that do that he's not a player. Sometimes that is sour grapes by the fanbase that drafted the "bust" (I see Devils fans re: Zacha) and sometimes its justified (the bruins fan base and ZS).

Looking into the numbers on this player, its easy to talk yourself into giving him a chance in a different environment.

It appears like there is a fair amount of defensive value here but he played a lot with Pius Suter, who is a good defender. The rest of his most common linemates over the last couple of years are really bad players and he was deployed in a defensive posture against low level competition. There's also a lot of "bad luck" in his profile when it comes to shooting for both him and the Red Wings when he's on the ice.

I think you could make the argument that a more favorable deployment with more offensively minded players could unlock something for this kid but there's some really alarming shooting talent numbers for him that I think is backed up by Red Wings fans in this thread. He has had so many injuries and he appears to be shot averse (this is likely the won't go inside anecdotal stuff we've read by some really good posts in this thread) that it's hard to even conceptualize what kind of player he could be. Injuries + low shot volume + unsustainable poor s% luck individually + unsustainable poor s% luck on ice + poor teammate quality + low level opposition quality = mysterious player. I will say though, his low shot volume + very poor s% could just mean he's not an NHL player in any environment.

I'd like to see him get another shot somewhere else but I don't think I would pay $1.8m in this cap environment to find out. I thought 16ish teams would claim him before I looked into it but now I think he likely clears. I hope they find a way to get him somewhere else so we can see if he can shake out a career for himself.

And the really truly frustrating thing is every now and then, couple times a month he's part of a highlight reel play. It's there... just... he can never seem to grab on to it.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Why didn't anyone take him? Isn't it a good contract?

Maybe they knew he could be had for free?