Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] D Moritz Seider re-signs with the Red Wings (7 years, $8.55M AAV)

[Folignos Helmet]

These 8 year deals for around 8 can look real good in a couple years.

I saw maybe Friedman was saying cap can take a major jump after next year as it’s last year the 5% raise limit is in effect. And with expansion looming. If the cap jumps 10 million or more in 2 years these players will have a cap hit of 8 on a team budget that could be push 110 or more million for back half of deals.

 

[General Fanager]

seems like a bargain for The Wings.....good deal....

 

[Pavels Dog]

Everyone but you knows this is Dahlin. One of those is a top 10 defenseman in the NHL. The other is maybe in your top 30 if you ignore all of his metrics and rank off vibes.

It's weird how Detroit even wins a single game considering none of their players are any good.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Apparently Seider and his camp wanted above Larkin's 8.7m(Which seems to be the benchmark for Yzerman and Wings) to go 8 years.

If anything it's probably good to not having to deal with both Seider and Raymond the same summer again.

And Seider would get a contract before Raymond, and not be offered table scraps of what is left in cap space.

 

[Ratatoskr]

Only an imbecile like Yzerman can make the Nurse contract seem reasonable

Dude, you're trying too hard. The post with the Ristolainen comparison above was funny, but yours is too over the top to be any good. I'll give you a C- and that's generous. Try again, and better apply yourself next time.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Only an imbecile like Yzerman can make the Nurse contract seem reasonable

This is either the lowest level bait, or you genuinely shouldn't have internet access

This contract is going to age like wine, Wings fans couldn't be happier.

 

[RedHawkDown]

It's weird how Detroit even wins a single game considering none of their players are any good.

These posts on the main board are really entertaining because apparently every one of these trash Atlantic division teams has top 10’players at every position but still can’t pass us in the standings

 

[newfy]

I get wanting to pump your guys tires, but there's nothing historic about his zone starts. Yes he had high defensive zone starts last season (about 20%) vs offensive zone starts (11%). Compare that to someone like Carlo on Boston who had 21% defensive zone starts vs 3% offensive zone and it doesn't look so skewed. Some of that can also be attributed to team play, as most of Detroits dmen had higher D-zone starts than O-zone last season if you compare those and remove neutral zone starts and on the fly changes.

All that said, this is a very nice contract and Mo should only get better as he hits his prime. I do think he's a great young player, so I'm not knocking him or trying to come off that way.

I know youre not really shitting on Seider so I'm not going to go in hard on you but I dont think you know what youre talking about on this. Maybe the zone starts arent crazy, but Seiders deployment difficulty is actually pretty historic, and a huge outlier statistically. The Athletic actually had articles about how a lot of the metrics cant quantify his on ice impact because his usage is so outrageous.

Dom Luschyzyn actually has said hes trying to develop a new stat thats basically if you leave the ice in a better position than you got on, because Seiders usage has kind of "broken" his model. He also did it with partners that most wouldnt consider up to the task.

If you watch him night in and night out you see it, but if you have to use advanced stats to form your opinion you wont think much of him

 

[Tetsuo]

I know youre not really shitting on Seider so I'm not going to go in hard on you but I dont think you know what youre talking about on this. Maybe the zone starts arent crazy, but Seiders deployment difficulty is actually pretty historic, and a huge outlier statistically. The Athletic actually had articles about how a lot of the metrics cant quantify his on ice impact because his usage is so outrageous.

Dom Luschyzyn actually has said hes trying to develop a new stat thats basically if you leave the ice in a better position than you got on, because Seiders usage has kind of "broken" his model. He also did it with partners that most wouldnt consider up to the task.

If you watch him night in and night out you see it, but if you have to use advanced stats to form your opinion you wont think much of him

I linked the Dom article for that poster, Mo was off the charts for the difficulty of his average shift compared to everyone except Walman.

 

[BertMcDrai]

Great deal...congrats.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I'll leave you with two articles:

You'll notice that the only company he has in the usage charts here is Walman, his most frequent partner this past season.

As this article shows, you look at guys playing big roles on their team, very few players ever received this type of defensive workload.

It's pretty gruesome. His "one extra shift" is against the other teams best players, paired with a lot of bad to worse LDs. I'd still agree that Mo has to improve on his game, he's still making more unforced errors than I like, but he's actually held up quite well and is going to be more than worth his deal by the end of it.

These charts have just reaffirmed my thought that Detroit needed to sign a RD this offseason instead of Kane/Tarasenko.

Mo needs help. Detroit probably has the worst 2nd and 3rd pair RD in the league.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I get wanting to pump your guys tires, but there's nothing historic about his zone starts. Yes he had high defensive zone starts last season (about 20%) vs offensive zone starts (11%). Compare that to someone like Carlo on Boston who had 21% defensive zone starts vs 3% offensive zone and it doesn't look so skewed. Some of that can also be attributed to team play, as most of Detroits dmen had higher D-zone starts than O-zone last season if you compare those and remove neutral zone starts and on the fly changes.

All that said, this is a very nice contract and Mo should only get better as he hits his prime. I do think he's a great young player, so I'm not knocking him or trying to come off that way.

He played the hardest minutes in NHL history since they started recording it IIRC.

So yea, kind of historic.

 

[loosemoose]

He's been trending worse every year since his great rookie season. Hope he can turn it around or this will be a rough contract.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Hell of a deal by Yzerman. He's good at locking core guys up long term to contracts that age incredibly.

 

[saska sault]

He's been trending worse every year since his great rookie season. Hope he can turn it around or this will be a rough contract.

If you just watch the stat sheet I guess.... really hope the 23 year old #1 defenseman can turn it around also.

 

[RedHawkDown]

This season it'll be important to see if Edvinsson can take some of the load off of Seider. If so, and he gets PP1 time, can see him hitting 60 points with much better advanced stats. If not, it's probably going to be another season of historically challenging deployment and him essentially just staying afloat in that deployment.

 

[TheDoldrums]

He's been trending worse every year since his great rookie season. Hope he can turn it around or this will be a rough

Ivan Provorov part 2, Electric Boogaloo

 

[RedHawkDown]

Ivan Provorov part 2, Electric Boogaloo

134 points over first 3 seasons vs. 97, and that's with no PP1 time. Calder winner vs. 9th in calder voting. Yeah they're the same.

 

[dgibb10]

134 points over first 3 seasons vs. 97, and that's with no PP1 time. Calder winner vs. 9th in calder voting. Yeah they're the same.

"No PP1 time" cut the bullshit.

He is 15th among all dman in the NHL in PP ice time over the last 3 years with 670 minutes. (Provorov had 409 PP minutes in his first 3 years).

Provorov had 74 EV points in his first 3 years
Seider had 70

 

[RedHawkDown]

"No PP1 time" cut the bullshit.

He is 15th among all dman in the NHL in PP ice time over the last 3 years with 670 minutes. (Provorov had 409 PP minutes in his first 3 years).

Provorov had 74 EV points in his first 3 years
Seider had 70

What bullshit? Seider doesn't play PP1. His overall PP ice time might be higher because the Wings do play their PP2 unit a decent amount, but he doesn't play PP1. Not sure what you're so mad about.

 

[dgibb10]

What bullshit? Seider doesn't play PP1. His overall PP ice time might be higher because the Wings do play their PP2 unit a decent amount, but he doesn't play PP1. Not sure what you're so mad about.

Detroit plays their PP2 dman more than half the teams in the league play their PP1 dman?

You're gonna need to justify that, especially considering Seider led detroit dman in PP ice time BY FAR in 21-22 and 22-23.

He was top 10 among all dman in the NHL in PP ice time in 22-23 and 11th in 21-22

Perhaps the problem was that, out of the 25 dman to reach 200 pp minutes in 22-23, seider was 24th in PP points/60.

He got PP1 time in both of his first 2 years. He was awful at it in 22-23, so they replaced him.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I'll leave you with two articles:

You'll notice that the only company he has in the usage charts here is Walman, his most frequent partner this past season.

As this article shows, you look at guys playing big roles on their team, very few players ever received this type of defensive workload.

It's pretty gruesome. His "one extra shift" is against the other teams best players, paired with a lot of bad to worse LDs. I'd still agree that Mo has to improve on his game, he's still making more unforced errors than I like, but he's actually held up quite well and is going to be more than worth his deal by the end of it.

I don't doubt he'll be worth his deal, and those are interesting reads. I do find some of the Athletics charts to be a bit black and white though. There's a lot of context and variables that aren't accounted for. Things like home teams getting last line changes. Which also brings up an interesting question or variable in that obviously at home Mo was put out when the other team put out their top line, but it seems that also happened frequently away as well. So, were other teams also trying to match up with him? Just an interesting dynamic.

Mo definitely got pushed into a role that is normally shared among a few dmen on other teams which is unfortunate for him and generally a result of the depth Detroit had on D last year, but it also stood out because most of the dmen that get that type of matchup deployment don't usually have the offensive potential he has. I think back to some of the older Sabres teams where there were clear match-up dmen like McKee and Warrener, and clear offensive guys like Campbell.

I'll be interested to see how he continues to develop when some of the younger guys start to get injected into the line-up and replace some of the weaker links. Hopefully he can get some relief on the defensive matchups and more opportunities on the offensive side of things.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Detroit plays their PP2 dman more than half the teams in the league play their PP1 dman?

You're gonna need to justify that, especially considering Seider led detroit dman in PP ice time BY FAR in 21-22 and 22-23.

He was top 10 among all dman in the NHL in PP ice time in 22-23 and 11th in 21-22

Perhaps the problem was that, out of the 25 dman to reach 200 pp minutes in 22-23, seider was 24th in PP points/60.

He got PP1 time in both of his first 2 years. He was awful at it in 22-23, so they replaced him.

Mostly talking about last season. Yes, he got some PP1 time on significantly worse teams in 21-22 and 22-23.

He's still much, much better than Provorov ever was or will be.

 

[dgibb10]

Mostly talking about last season. Yes, he got some PP1 time on significantly worse teams in 21-22 and 22-23.

He's still much, much better than Provorov ever was or will be.

He had less EV points than provorov did in his first 3 years.

You tried to make the claim that seider was so much better because he had higher overall point totals "without PP1 time". It was simply a false claim

Seider had LESS EV production, and his points gap was there because he had nearly 70% more time on the power play than Provorov.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Seems like a great deal