Our Lady Peace
Registered User
I think that it's expected Seider will move to PP1 and Gus will run PP2 as he is not as dynamic offensively as Ghost was
Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] D Moritz Seider re-signs with the Red Wings (7 years, $8.55M AAV)
- Thread starter GarlicbreadTB
- Start date
Jersey Fan 12
Positive Vibes
- Nov 20, 2006
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Seider and Raymond contracts; Christmas in September in Detroit?
Henkka
Registered User
I see it like this too. But quite sure they will experiment that DeBrincat-Gustafsson-Kane back-triangle, which was great at Chicago days. Maybe that's the 2nd unit.
1st unit
Compher-Larkin
Raymond-Seider-Tarasenko
2nd unit
Veleno-Berggren
DeBrincat-Gustafsson-Kane
PROUD PAPA
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Contenderorpretender
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Axel Sandy Pelikan
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What do you get from trolling? Really? What is your benefit?
Seider is a better player than Darnell Nurse at 1M less per year.
dirtydanglez
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Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Seems like a good deal having their core locked up @ 25/mil.
If Edvinsson (D), Danielson (C) and Kasper (C) eventually turn out to be that good of a core and get 25/mil, Wings are suddenly perennial contenders and deep.
If Edvinsson (D), Danielson (C) and Kasper (C) eventually turn out to be that good of a core and get 25/mil, Wings are suddenly perennial contenders and deep.
- Jul 25, 2016
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Good deal for both parties. Congrats Wing fans, you have a solid base to build around with some nice assets in the pipeline.
Euro Twins
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Lmfao. Seider has been better than nurse since his rookie season. He plays the hardest minutes in the league by far. That's not an opinion, it's a statistical fact. Holland gave nurse Makar money but that isn't Yzerman or seiders fault
Only 4 years next contract will be 16 Million a season.
4 years till what?
GarlicbreadTB
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- Apr 16, 2015
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Apparently Seider and his camp wanted above Larkin's 8.7m(Which seems to be the benchmark for Yzerman and Wings) to go 8 years.
If anything it's probably good to not having to deal with both Seider and Raymond the same summer again.
roman star
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CanadienShark
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Pretty solid deal for the Wings I think. This is already fair and with the cap going up and him continuing to improve, it'll look even better.
tsujimoto74
Moderator
- May 28, 2012
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Everyone but you knows this is Dahlin. One of those is a top 10 defenseman in the NHL. The other is maybe in your top 30 if you ignore all of his metrics and rank off vibes.
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I think it's fair to say Seider hasn't had a great season and a half...
But the metrics are only part of the story. The other part is historic defensive zone starts against opposing teams top players night in and night out paired with a run of bad to worse players across from him. People who stat watch are just as guilty of forming faulty opinions as those who rank based off "vibes".
Dahlin is better because he provides the more coveted skillset (offensive ability) but I'm sure he's very thankful he doesn't have to play Mo's minutes. Mo is so rarely started in the offensive zone compared to all the big stars, the points are hard to come by.
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
I get wanting to pump your guys tires, but there's nothing historic about his zone starts. Yes he had high defensive zone starts last season (about 20%) vs offensive zone starts (11%). Compare that to someone like Carlo on Boston who had 21% defensive zone starts vs 3% offensive zone and it doesn't look so skewed. Some of that can also be attributed to team play, as most of Detroits dmen had higher D-zone starts than O-zone last season if you compare those and remove neutral zone starts and on the fly changes.
All that said, this is a very nice contract and Mo should only get better as he hits his prime. I do think he's a great young player, so I'm not knocking him or trying to come off that way.
He's playing about 2.5 minutes more a night than Boston's (a deep playoff team) 3rd D, which is the key part I always forget about when rehashing this talking point. Their roles could not be more different so I'm not sure why you cherry picked this example.
WhereAreTheCookies
Registered User
Cherry picked? I looked up 1 team for an example. How about Esa Lindell? Chris Tanev? Mikey Anderson? Matt Roy? Lindgren? Oleksiak? how about 2 of Seiders teammates Walman and Chiarot? I can keep going.
Maybe don't toss around terms like historic for situations that are pretty common for many teams to utilize specific dmen for tougher assignments. 2nd pairing Dmen can still get the toughest assignments, especially when teams run their more offensive minded dmen on their top pairings. Carlo by the way, 2nd pairing not 3rd and averaged 16:46 at even strength last season to Seiders 17:32 .... that's not 2.5 minutes per game, that's more like 1 extra shift.
Playing a minute or 2 more per game doesn't take away from the fact that many players around the league are utilized in a similar manner, and with even more skewed zone starts. In fact many of those players probably had as many D-zone starts as Seider while playing slightly less due to the larger gap between the zone start percentages.
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I'll leave you with two articles:
You'll notice that the only company he has in the usage charts here is Walman, his most frequent partner this past season.
As this article shows, you look at guys playing big roles on their team, very few players ever received this type of defensive workload.
It's pretty gruesome. His "one extra shift" is against the other teams best players, paired with a lot of bad to worse LDs. I'd still agree that Mo has to improve on his game, he's still making more unforced errors than I like, but he's actually held up quite well and is going to be more than worth his deal by the end of it.
