Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] D Justin Holl signs with the Red Wings (3 years, $3.4M AAV)

[Hammettf2b]

Justin Holl played top 4 minutes for the Leafs for 3 years. His issue was never being a non NHL option, that was something the main boards invented.

HIs issue is when you need him most he forgets how to play hockey. If the Wings are in a playoff race down the stretch, expect him to become your worst dman.

That's understandable but I don't think the Wings would be using him in a way where he's greatly needed. Just show up, don't be a goof, be hard to play against. Whether he continues to do that is remained to be seen.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Quite possibly? He is definitively the best defenseman of all time.

Exactly.

Lidstrom can go fu*k himself right off.

 

[HockeyVirus]

That's understandable but I don't think the Wings would be using him in a way where he's greatly needed. Just show up, don't be a goof, be hard to play against. Whether he continues to do that is remained to be seen.

When he is one of your top Pkers all year and stuff he works his way into that role though. Lalonde is going to love Holl by Jan, just watch haha. You guys will be pulling your hair out when the coach trusts him in these situations and he makes boneheaded plays.

Anyways, yeah. Holl is a good player... Most of the time.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Some players do better on other teams and systems and with the right partner on D. This isn’t really all that shocking. Fans like to find a scapegoat for the teams issues. Holl was the scapegoat in Toronto.
However, Toronto’s defense doesn’t appear to have improved since he has left and he appears to be doing well (in a small sample size) in Detroit.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Should be interesting to revisit this one later. Holl currently sitting at 48% scoring chances for with an on ice shooting percentage of 30% and an on ice sv% of 97%. Seems sustainable.

If that PDO ever regresses, then perhaps we can add him to the long list of Leafs who get pumped up when they get some good results early only to be forgotten and ignored once they regress to their career norms (Mikheyev, Brown, Sandin are some recent examples).

The point was more that maybe we overreacted to how terrible of a signing this supposedly was. I expect most of the Red Wings to level out to a much more realistic number as the season progresses, but this wasn't nearly the terrible contract people made it out to be.

Justin Holl played top 4 minutes for the Leafs for 3 years. His issue was never being a non NHL option, that was something the main boards invented.

HIs issue is when you need him most he forgets how to play hockey. If the Wings are in a playoff race down the stretch, expect him to become your worst dman.

Not as long as we have Ben Chiarot.

 

[Tetsuo]

The point was more that maybe we overreacted to how terrible of a signing this supposedly was. I expect most of the Red Wings to level out to a much more realistic number as the season progresses, but this wasn't nearly the terrible contract people made it out to be.


Not as long as we have Ben Chiarot.

I never thought it was a bad signing. It's weird when we already had a bunch of middling defenders but the actual cap hit for Holl was never bad lol.

What we're seeing now is that sometimes a player can really rectify their past performance in a new role, on a new team. It's a tiny sample size but this whole team has really gelled and Holl not playing the toughest assignments night in and night out has been huge for him thus far. Maybe the mental errors he was making just came from being overworked playing the McJesus' of the world.

 

[EquivalentStay]

View attachment 756535

Bro, Ben f***ing Chiarot is on this list, maybe not the best argument to make

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The irony of taking a Leafs cast off who instantly becomes your best defensive dman, and then suggesting it is the Leafs defense that sucks

I'm not sure where I said he was our best defensive D-man. Maybe you want to check on that...

Pretty sure what's being suggested is that he wasn't the hot garbage Leafs fans made him out to be.

I never thought it was a bad signing. It's weird when we already had a bunch of middling defenders but the actual cap hit for Holl was never bad lol.

What we're seeing now is that sometimes a player can really rectify their past performance in a new role, on a new team. It's a tiny sample size but this whole team has really gelled and Holl not playing the toughest assignments night in and night out has been huge for him thus far. Maybe the mental errors he was making just came from being overworked playing the McJesus' of the world.

Similar to Danny DeKeyser being a really good 2nd pairing defenseman, and looking like hot garbage as the #1 guy once Kronwall left.

 

[stl76]

Chest thumping after 5 games using +/- :

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The point was more that maybe we overreacted to how terrible of a signing this supposedly was. I expect most of the Red Wings to level out to a much more realistic number as the season progresses, but this wasn't nearly the terrible contract people made it out to be.


Not as long as we have Ben Chiarot.

I think we probably need to wait at least 1 season to know if it's a bad contract or not.

3.5m is never going to be terrible though, as long as the player is not press box fodder. Chiarot at almost 5m is a candidate for terrible.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I think we probably need to wait at least 1 season to know if it's a bad contract or not.

3.5m is never going to be terrible though, as long as the player is not press box fodder. Chiarot at almost 5m is a candidate for terrible.

Agreed. Chiarot also likely ends up buried or bought out before the end of that deal, though. Neither really hurts Detroit, either.

 

[saska sault]

Chairot is just fun to crap on. He's looked good this year. Every dman has hiccups, his have been less than last year so far. The team being better as a unit only helps the dmen look better, so far the team looks better on the defensive side. Helps not putting guys like Chiaot and Holl in bad situations over and over again.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Pretty sure what's being suggested is that he wasn't the hot garbage Leafs fans made him out to be.

We're doing this again eh? Look, I won't deny Holl had a large hater fanbase that are Leaf fans, same as Dubas and Keefe and basically anyone associated with the Leafs has.

But it was the main boards who would refuse to accept Holl was even an NHL Dman, let's not get that twisted into this was a Leaf fan thing.

 

[tony135420]

We're doing this again eh? Look, I won't deny Holl had a large hater fanbase that are Leaf fans, same as Dubas and Keefe and basically anyone associated with the Leafs has.

But it was the main boards who would refuse to accept Holl was even an NHL Dman, let's not get that twisted into this was a Leaf fan thing.

Very true. Holl is a fine 3rd paring/PK d-man playing sheltered minutes. If he has to make an outlet pass or use his brain to make any plays, he's out of his comfort zone. I'm honestly happy he's having a go of it in Detroit! I wish him well, just keep him away from Keefe. He likes to put overachieving 3rd pairing d-men in top 4 situations.

 

[sxvnert]

Holl is a fine 3rd paring/PK d-man playing sheltered minutes.

100%. Eventually the real Holl will return to form.

Pattern: He'll start believing that hes a PMD, rush every chance he gets, leads to giveaways, then he goes back to his shell as a 3rd pairing D.

 

[Ezekial]

Chairot is just fun to crap on. He's looked good this year. Every dman has hiccups, his have been less than last year so far. The team being better as a unit only helps the dmen look better, so far the team looks better on the defensive side. Helps not putting guys like Chiaot and Holl in bad situations over and over again.

Is he good? No. Does he fall over and allow a goal (like against Ottawa)? He can. Does that make him not NHL level? No.

He's overpaid and he can make mistakes (every d man does) but the amount of shit the guy gets is unreal. He can have 10 shifts in a row where he makes good defensive plays, plays physically, transports the puck on foot and with the pass well then suddenly in the GDT someone's like "WOW CHIAROT IS SUCH ASS" and I don't even know what the complaint is about. He's certainly a bottom 4 D man in the NHL, one that isn't ideal to play big minutes. He got paid more than he should, GMs think highly of players that play big roles on teams that make runs.

Holl is playing as I expected him to, steady and serviceable but unspectacular(had a big night on the scoresheet though). Much better than our bottom 4-6 D last year.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

100%. Eventually the real Holl will return to form.

Pattern: He'll start believing that hes a PMD, rush every chance he gets, leads to giveaways, then he goes back to his shell as a 3rd pairing D.

Was keefe not telling him to do this? Holl was a king at bad pinches , almost as if he was asked to play like this , maybe all 6 dmen were asked to play like that for the leafs system , which is pretty good at keeping ozone possesion and rotating the D down low

 

[Peasy]

Holl is fine as a 3rd pairing PK option. Keefe just used and liked him way to much.

 

[Hoverhand]

Most Holl detractors won't admit that for the most part he plays tough minutes and maintains positive metrics.

Most Holl fans won't admit that sometimes (and in bunches) he makes blunders so breathtakingly bad that makes you pull your ever decreasing supply of hair out of your head.

He's going to be a quality defenceman for the majority of the time. That being said, he almost cost us the Tampa series.

 

[Dotter]

If the Wings are in a playoff race down the stretch, expect him to become your worst dman.

Why?

 

[Petes2424]

It’s real simple. Holl was asked to do way more than he was capable of with the Leafs.

Like Chiarot coincidentally, he’s a very serviceable dman, until he tries doing too much. It’s what always gets them both in trouble.

Right now, they’re playing the roles they’re good at.

Gostisbehere and Maatta are playing really well together, allowing Detroit to play Holl/Petry with Chiarot in a lessor role. One they’re suited to play.. As for Gostisbehere continuing to be this good, who knows, but he’s been a great addition, and like with Hronek last year, Maatta has allowed Ghost to do what he does best.

 

[Fogelhund]

Holl is best when you don't notice him at all. He plays the game very well, is solid defensively and on the PK. Most Leafs fans hated him, because when he's visible, it's because he just made a mistake, and most often the puck ends up in the back of the net. That didn't happen too often, but it seemed to be at the worst times when it did. Overall, he was pretty good for the Leafs, it's just a group that likes their D scapegoats. If he sticks to his defensive game, doesn't pinch... he'll be alright.

 

[Djp]

This is spot on.

Keefe played him 20 mins a night against tough competition.

If Det keeps his mins (around 14 mins EV, 2 mins PK) I think he could be a useful part.

He was certainly a whipping boy in Toronto but I always thought he was just mismanaged

It certainly reminds everyone that plus/minus is a bit of a wonky statistic when it used to be the definitive metric for evaluating a defensive defenceman in the 80s.

plus minus reflects more on useage where if you tend to play with a league top 3 line scoring line nd don’t get used in difficult prevent a goal D situations against other teams top line you are going to get a higher number.

another factor seen— Dmen playing at around under a time max on ES/PK time usually has better games than if they end up with higher minutes.

with Holl— if ess used as top 4 against tough ofgicr playing more minutes while he was better suited with less time and high off zone draws

the other factor was salary that hurt his value.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Chest thumping after 5 games using +/- :

And hating on him after 0 games was better?

 

[LeProspector]

Wait? He gets paid how much?

what a brutal contract, everyone needs to hire this guys agent.