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Confirmed Signing with Link: [DET] D Justin Holl signs with the Red Wings (3 years, $3.4M AAV)

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spfan said:
I always liked Wallstedt more.

My perception is he gets so much credit for the Seider pick, yet when he failed on picks, those are ignored.

He has 0 cups as active GM. And I think it'll stay that way. Could change, not saying it's impossible. I just don't see it happening. Probably more likely if he gets a GM job again, but for a new team. I'm not big on most of what he's done with Detroit. Again, that doesn't mean I disagreed with everything he's done. I'm 100% with him on the ASP pick at 17th.
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So far your cited failed picks are from a decade ago in Tampa lol.

Brett Connolly and Slater Koekkoek brought up but not Point or Kucherov either, weird.
 
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Seider and Donuts said:
It's post #180 for anybody who would like to verify who's lying here.

I said "Comical" to your Wallstedt >> Cossa comment because you made it literally minutes after saying something to the effect of "You have to give these guys time to develop". I quoted both posts sequentially for that reason.

Take the L and move on.
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It wasn't a contradiction.

Whether it was you or 1 of the others, 1 of you said that it doesn't matter that he drafted busts 10 years ago. Of course it matters. And it didn't take 10 years to know that, but it took a few years.

Obviously picks in the last few years need time. Never disagreed with that. But at this time, I wasn't huge on some of his picks. His ASP pick looks great at this point in my opinion. But the Kasper pick, not as much of a fan of that one. Maybe Kasper becomes a star and Yzerman looks right. Maybe ASP busts and both of us are wrong. But we'll have to see. But I've specifically said looking at it now vs future.
 
Seider and Donuts said:
So far your cited failed picks are from a decade ago in Tampa lol.

Brett Connolly and Slater Koekkoek brought up but not Point or Kucherov either, weird.
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I've said many times he's done good and bad.
He also didn't know for sure those players would turn out that good. Otherwise Kucherov would've been picked before Namestnkikov. He also picked Masin and MacLeod before Point. Point and Kucherov became stars, but even by his own picks in the same year, he clearly didn't see that.

Mixed bag with his drafting. And I've acknowledged other GM's are hit and miss too.
I just perceive his drafting got too much credit because fans ignored the misses.
 
lmao I can't believe this dude is STILL trying here. Every single post is a strawman argument of "well I didn't mean this, I meant that, when I said this, I meant something else, and also Brett Connelly, so you know..."

We get it already.
 
spfan said:
It wasn't a contradiction.

Whether it was you or 1 of the others, 1 of you said that it doesn't matter that he drafted busts 10 years ago. Of course it matters. And it didn't take 10 years to know that, but it took a few years.

Obviously picks in the last few years need time. Never disagreed with that. But at this time, I wasn't huge on some of his picks. His ASP pick looks great at this point in my opinion. But the Kasper pick, not as much of a fan of that one. Maybe Kasper becomes a star and Yzerman looks right. Maybe ASP busts and both of us are wrong. But we'll have to see. But I've specifically said looking at it now vs future.
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It was though, because it was very clear what I was saying.

And the fact that you followed up that false claim with another, falsely claiming that you initially said Wallstedt's development was going better (When you never mentioned Wallstedt initially) indicates that these aren't just misunderstandings with you. You're just deliberately lying.

Be better.

Dotter said:
I'm reading conflicting reports (takes) on this guy. Some say he is decent if he plays within his roll and he had a bad playoffs. Sounds like he was the scapegoat?

You have to realize TML drafted him and he's been a Leaf since being drafted in 2010. What's the chances of him proving Yzerman a genius when he gets to play for a better club that can pair him with a better partner?
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Considering Walman is guaranteed to be married to Seider, his partner will either be Maatta or Chiarot.

One could be decent. Maatta made Hronek look like a million bucks. Chiarot, however, would likely be a disaster.
 
spfan said:
It wasn't a contradiction.

Whether it was you or 1 of the others, 1 of you said that it doesn't matter that he drafted busts 10 years ago. Of course it matters. And it didn't take 10 years to know that, but it took a few years.

Obviously picks in the last few years need time. Never disagreed with that. But at this time, I wasn't huge on some of his picks. His ASP pick looks great at this point in my opinion. But the Kasper pick, not as much of a fan of that one. Maybe Kasper becomes a star and Yzerman looks right. Maybe ASP busts and both of us are wrong. But we'll have to see. But I've specifically said looking at it now vs future.
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Show me anyone who wouldn't trade a couple busted high end draft picks in exchange for the body of work and record I layed out for you.

In the meatime I'll try and find the gm who hasn't missed on high end drafts picks, but just a heads up, I might be looking for a while.

Seider is a big deal in Detroit, because it was the first pick of his frist draft and it was a bit off the board (probably not as much as media made it out to be, but a surprise nonetheless). THe other picks...the jury is still out.

Unispired UFA signings like Holl or Chariot ( I still think both could work out okay) are just place holders. SFY isn't looking to contend for a year or two. He is laying the foundation from which mutlitple windows to contend can open over a 10- 15 year period. HIs owner understands that.

He's not going to another team, in fact I shocked he came back here in the first place given who he had as an owner, and what he had going in TB. THis is it for him.
 
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Michoulicious said:
Justin L-Holl in Detroit, to form a legendary pair with Ben Chiarot.

Stevie Y. losing his touch.
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I think it's more likely that Stevie-Y is signing whatever plug he can get that doesn't want a 6-8 year deal (See Mayfield/Graves) while he waits on his kids to develop.

Detroit pretty clearly hoping to see a Top 4 of Seider/Edvinsson/Wallinder/ASP in 3 years. Two already appear likely and Wallinder is looking pretty good himself.

For the record, I hate these deals. (Chiarot and Holl) But I think at this point it's a matter of sticking a guy in there who can play while you wait on the kids to develop. And Detroit isn't really hurting for cap space.

Dotter said:
What about Edvinsson?
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My money is that he's in Grand Rapids until the inevitable left side injury happens. (And maybe not even then)

He looked good in his stint but definitely has some holes to work on, and Detroit's MO for their high end prospects is to get them as many minutes as they can. He ain't ready for 25 minutes a night in the NHL, so that means GR, in all likelihood.
 
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Wings fans, you are going to hate this player. Worst player in the league by a long shot.
 
Justin Holl, while he seems like a nice guy; will make five times as much money in life as I did, and I am sad.
 
Are we sure it's not 3.4 total for 3 years(1.1ish per year? Haha) he can't be making 3.4 per year lol
 
Wonder what Stevie Y is doing here.

Not sure how I feel about this deal, the cap is a bit much for Holl.

I guess it’s ok if it pushes Maatta to the 3rd pairing.

1st Pair LD Walman RD Seider
2nd Pair LD Chairot RD Holl
3rd Pair LD Maatta RD Lindstrom

LD Edvinsson had offseason shoulder surgery and may not be 100% ready for training camp.
 
Holl gets an overly bad rap from some. With smart usage he can be an effective D man (if you account for his random brain farts).
 
TKB said:
Show me anyone who wouldn't trade a couple busted high end draft picks in exchange for the body of work and record I layed out for you.

In the meatime I'll try and find the gm who hasn't missed on high end drafts picks, but just a heads up, I might be looking for a while.

Seider is a big deal in Detroit, because it was the first pick of his frist draft and it was a bit off the board (probably not as much as media made it out to be, but a surprise nonetheless). THe other picks...the jury is still out.

Unispired UFA signings like Holl or Chariot ( I still think both could work out okay) are just place holders. SFY isn't looking to contend for a year or two. He is laying the foundation from which mutlitple windows to contend can open over a 10- 15 year period. HIs owner understands that.

He's not going to another team, in fact I shocked he came back here in the first place given who he had as an owner, and what he had going in TB. THis is it for him.
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Well if he never goes to another team, the Detroit job isn't forever anyways. And may be cut short if the success isn't there. As I've stated, I don't see a cup contender. And I don't mean in 2 years. At this point, I don't see it 10 years from now.
Even if you want to give him ALL the credit for TBL, doesn't mean that happens for Detroit.
 
The Yzerplan
FTGfeYx.gif
 
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