I do not like the fact he's my age and wear glasses he doesn't need. But I do respect a bloody good cardigan and so he gains points for that in my books.
Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests
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Marchment for Malgin is an example of trading a mid-20s mediocre AHL player that's about to be lost for free for a younger, better, more experienced depth player with more team control.
Yeah, Tampa and Colorado will never win! What fools they were to hire rookie head coaches!
hamzarocks
Registered User
Nope we traded a player with a skillet we needed, who was working his way up through the ranks of our system after a 4 game trial for a player whose skillet wasn't needed, and his physical limitations were not able to over compensate for shortfalls in production
A different GM makes room for that player and moves another piece. Dubas messed up that move.
Malgin was not a piece we needed. He flopped so bad he had to go back to Europe to resurrect his career.
Team control doesn't mean anything btw when a player isn't providing value to the team. Malgin has done nothing the past 3 years.
Marchment has grown and become a quality 3rd liner with grit, size and some solid net front presence
Bad move by Dubas deserves to get called out just like his good moves deserve praise (Mrazek deal for instance this summer)
We didn't need an AHL grinder. He wasn't working his way up. He was stagnating as a mediocre AHLer in his mid 20s. We even gave him a trial in the NHL - which was more than he had earned - and he wasn't good enough. He was about to be lost to waivers, or soon after, UFA. We took the opportunity to get something for him, instead of losing him for free. It's a standard exchange of depth pieces that any GM would do; not a representation of whatever incorrect narrative you want to build about Dubas.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Nope wrong again dekes
You just can't ever be impartial
That AHL grinder strangely broke out after leafs dealt him
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I am right again, though you are correct that I am not partial - I am impartial. That AHL grinder "broke out" years later - after we would have lost him to waivers or UFA anyway. Even Florida, who had far less depth than us in 2019-2020, didn't play him in the NHL that year. In fact, he didn't even start with the team the following year, and any team could have claimed him on waivers.
Felix the Cat Potvin
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Embarrassing rationalization, and wrong to boot.
Marchment wasn't stagnating in the AHL when he was traded. He was scoring at a 50-goal pace in the AHL when he was traded. If any GM thinks they can evaluate a player after merely 4 NHL games, they must be a genius, and Dubas clearly isn't, as his evaluation was terrible. Florida got a PPG player for 800K, while we didn't get "something" as you call it, we got the definition of "nothing" or likely worse with Malgin failing to put up a single point for us. Moreover, Marchment is exactly what this team needs, and Malgin is the opposite of what it needs. Dubas's double-down this summer reeks of desperately trying to relitigate his acquisition. Rarely do "standard exchanges of depth pieces" go so comically awful, and to try to defend it, is similarly comical.
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killer1980
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I haven't seen it but I've been away with a medical condition but I will predict that Mikheyev will become yet another Leaf castoff who shines with another team. He will be another Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Moore. The list goes on and on. Look for Ilya to be near the top.
Arthur Morgan
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11m was Toronto's price. NY would have had to pay more which I bet at the time they would have been more than happy to.
I wonder if Islander fans are still upset. seen that forgotten video of the Islander fans crying yesterday lol
from my understanding Islander fans are happy now kinda funny to see how upset they were to how happy they are now hes gone
Marchment was absolutely stagnating in the AHL. He was about to be 25, his production in the AHL was mediocre (even with a wildly inflated shooting percentage in the season he was traded), and he wasn't good defensively.
They evaluated him for 4 years. Marchment hadn't earned playing in the NHL, and he was bad when they did give him a trial anyway.
Florida got an AHL player, and they played him in the AHL. Years later, after signing as a UFA, and after being exposed to the entire NHL on waivers, he had a hot stretch of games through part of a season. We did get something in return. It obviously wasn't much, since we were trading a mediocre AHLer who was about to be waiver eligible and a UFA, but it's still more than we would have had if we hadn't traded Marchment and lost him for actual nothing. It's time to move on from this nothing trade.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Your right I messed up my post. Your not impartial meant to say. Thanks for heads up.
Ive never seen you seriosuly critique any Kyle Dubas move. Not the kadri trade, Foligno Trade, Marleau Deal, handling the RFAs, nor faulting him for the team failing to progress in his 4 years as the GM.
Marchment broke out in 2022. We dealt him in 2020. There wasn't huge time gap. Marchmant played 87 games since being dealt over 2021 and 2022. He had 57 pts. Elite 3rd line production, comparable to a guy like Bunting.
There wasn't any long duration where he floundered. Verhaghe is an example of another quality player we gave up too early but he took a while to become great.
Marchment broke onto the panthers in 2021. He played 30 something games out of 56 in the COVID season had 10 pts. Had a 4th line role which was more than Malgin could provide for us.
This year he was an elite 3rd liner who could step up into the top 6 and play a role
He was a late bloomer with size. He had a strong AHL year in 2020 with 18 pts on 24 games and was coming into his own.
We dealt him becuase dubas failed to determine his capabilities and understand the risk of him breaking out
It's Dubas job to evaluate the players and when a quality player is dealt for a a guy like Malgin it's a troubling sign and bad move.
You only lose a player on waivers if you place them there. Marchment should have been kept on the roster and some one else should have been dealt off of it. He deserved a full season to see how capable he was
Just that year we gave Gauthier 61 games and he was a useless player than and moving forward with his size being a waste and him having little offensive skills. Spezza could/should have been waived. We saw it happen in 2021 and his if I'm claimed ill retire decision could have been applied then
Dubas messed up the Marchment deal. He lost it by a wide margin. We need a player like Marchment on our team now but can't find one and are hoping Knies as a rookie can step up and give us that type of value.
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Dubas is the quintessential old boy. He continues to surround himself with the comfortable gang from the Soo. Both on the ice and off it.
That may have been how you felt at the time but others thought very differently.
The results are in by the way.
Dubas manages the personnel, we had him and then we didn't. Simple as that.
2 years is quite a big time gap. He hit waiver eligibility and hit UFA twice in that time. He wasn't good when he was dealt. That's why Florida, with less depth than us, didn't play him in 2019-2020 or to start 2020-2021, and it's why they put him on waivers, meaning that every team in the NHL had a chance to get him back. You're literally arguing against trading away a player we could have got back for free.
I mean, at least with Verhaeghe there's an argument, unlike with Marchment. He was freshly 20 years old, hadn't even hit the AHL, wasn't really given a chance in the organization, and he was thrown away for no reason. Totally different from trading away a mid-20s mediocre AHLer who was about to hit waiver eligibility and UFA, that was given 4 years in the organization and had stagnated.
We dealt him because he wasn't good enough to make the team, looked to be a nothing player in his mid-20s, and was about to be lost to waivers or UFA anyway.
A quality player wasn't dealt for Malgin. A mid-20s mediocre AHLer was dealt for Malgin. Nothing troubling about that.
Marchment wasn't good enough to be on the roster. Even Florida agreed. In fact, every NHL team agreed.
No, handing a bad player a full NHL season on a competitive team when he hadn't earned it and didn't deserve it is a horrible way to manage a team.
He was better than Marchment. At least he was good defensively.
What a ridiculously bad move that would have been. We had literally just signed him, he took league minimum to come here, and he was way better than Marchment.
We don't need Marchment, and whether or not we traded him, we wouldn't have Marchment now. And if we really wanted him, we could have gotten him when he hit waivers or one of the multiple times he hit UFA.
No, it means exactly what I think it means, and it's an accurate word.
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Felix the Cat Potvin
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Take solace in the fact that it's a lot easier to argue trading a near point-per-game 6'4 forward for a pointless (literally and figuratively) 5'8 forward is a bad deal, rather than seemingly a good deal. Our arguments flow naturally like water, whereas other arguments are basically unreadable leaps of logic and rhetoric-coated empty calories.
For somebody who says people misrepresent things a lot he sure does state a lot of things as fact that we wouldn't know to be true or not
Bomber0104
Registered User
Mason Marchment is a highly productive NHL player who just got an excellent multi-year contract, in the NHL.
Denis Malgin is an undersized, underskilled, underproductive hockey player who can't sniff an NHL game if his life depended on it.
The Leafs would have been wise to not trade the former for garbage like Malgin.
In what world, planet, universe, multi-verse is an international, undersized, unproductive, garbage player like Malgin worth more than a very productive player?
Why can't you just admit Dubas traded away an excellent player for nothing?
Is it that hard?
I realize Dubas is trying his best to find a little guy to prove his Brock thesis that size doesn't matter in hockey but come on, the evidence is before us...
Leaf Fans
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Malgin signed with the Leafs so he is within sniffing distance. However, at this point, it is a bad trade.
Whatever you incorrectly think Marchment and Malgin are now is irrelevant. Marchment when he was traded was a mid-20s mediocre AHLer. He wasn't good enough for the NHL (which Florida and every single NHL team agreed with), and he was about to hit waiver eligibility and UFA. Even if you personally dislike the younger, cheaper, better, more experienced player with more team control that we got back, that is still better than the alternative of losing Marchment for nothing.
Toronto, or any other team in the league, could have had Marchment for free, after we traded him. But nobody wanted him, for good reason.
Good for Marchment that he figured things out a bit years later, and was able to cash in on a hot, unsustainable stretch of games in an ideal situation, but that doesn't change anything about the valid reasons for the trade.
P.S. That "player who can't sniff an NHL game if his life depended on it" has played more NHL games than Marchment.
supermann_98
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Define what you mean by “it’s worked” because last I checked nothing he has done got them out of the first round.
No shame in losing to Tampa sure, but I’m sorry that Montreal choke job I don’t think I will ever forgive and forget. Dubas doubled down on that core and the dealer hit a blackjack, bad luck to him, but at some point you gotta get up and walk away from the table.
His stubborn insistence to make no major changes and just run it back (with worse/unreliable goaltending), hoping lessons learned from constant failure, somehow materializes into playoff success.
The core is untouchable, the coach is his buddy so he’s untouchable.
i just don’t get it, how has he passed that test? I honestly chuckle when I browse the boards And see the title of this thread.
colchar
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Their cores were a similar age as ours, and were perennial playoff teams within a year of being hired.
Rookie coach =/= bad coach.
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