Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[ToneDog]

Now do Marner

Apparently Kyle did not need glasses then. LOL

 

[ACC1224]

Apparently Kyle did not need glasses then. LOL

View attachment 570775

Probably why they brought Lou in to help him see things a little clearer.

 

[deprw]

And Kerfoot single handidly lost the last 2 playoffs this year and the year before. So whats your point?

My point was that were building narrative that we should have kept Kadri, because he was good player this year and at same time forget that he had screwed up in four playoffs just before these. We moved on because he screwed twice here and did that same in Colorado. Before playing great playoffs run this year. Good for him.

I wouldn't put three series ending suspensions on same basket with two mistakes of Kerfoot in the playoffs. It's easier to get back one goal in a game than replace 2nd line center mid series. He also basicly lost that game seven against Dallas, so he had those two goals covered in that.

I think Kadri is great player and he was one of my favourites in Leafs uniform, but it's hard to get by that he got perfect lesson 2018 and didn't learn. Made same mistake year later and we lost that crazy tight series in game seven and played five games without him. We would have won that series with Kadri.

There was a reason why we traded him and we shouldn't forget that even if he succeeded later. If he screw up third time here like he did twice in Colorado we would have questioned Dubas very harshly for not doing anything to Kadri who we can't rely on.

 

[NinjaKick]

It was a do or die season against Montreal when he bet on the core after the Columbus failure

Is it a do’er or die’er season now?

just trying to stay positive. I have no idea how this season will play out... man, I'm concerned. Too many question marks.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I started looking at their team pages when they signed Komarov, who I really enjoyed (I've done the same with other ex-Leafs). Except for their (understandable) anger at Tavares for how he left, and a bit at Toronto because he came here, they are a pretty good bunch of knowledgeable posters, and the hockey has been very entertaining.

Calling dull hockey very entertaining entertains me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Calling dull hockey very entertaining entertains me.

Glad something entertains you. You're welcome.

Physical play by just about everyone, hard forecheck, solid positional defence, and good goaltending, plus a good chunk of playoff success. What's not entertaining?

(Hmmm. That seems to be a list of everything we complain about the Leafs not having.)

I know why their hockey isn't entertaining. Wrong uniforms!

 

[keonsbitterness]

Glad something entertains you. You're welcome.

Physical play by just about everyone, hard forecheck, solid positional defence, and good goaltending, plus a good chunk of playoff success. What's not entertaining?

(Hmmm. That seems to be a list of everything we complain about the Leafs not having.)

I know why their hockey isn't entertaining. Wrong uniforms!

Very impressive! I couldn't be bothered to generate that much praise for the Avs in one post.

 

[stickty111]

I have brought this up before. His worst moves that even his biggest fans hated were the most praised by the media and detractors. The famous one is the Foligno one. I among other supporters called him out immedietly after that move which funny enough the detractors loved, and the main reason it was loved was because it fit the "old boys club" narrative of people.

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

 

[Jmo89]

Dubas is not a victim of the old boys club. He's had way more handed to him than most GMs and has had the support of the one of the richest franchises in hockey for a half decade.

The moves that he's criticized about he deserves to be criticized for. Those have been discussed ad nauseam so I don't feel the need to bring them up.

A team with Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, etc. failing to get out of round 1 is a failure. You can't blame that on the old boys. Does that failure rest partly on players? Absolutely, but Dubas is the GM and he shares the responsibility.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I don't know what tests he's passed but I don't think he's done any worse than any other Leafs GM in the last 20 years and definitely better than a couple. The only mistakes I can point out are goalie related (Sparks over McIhenney, Mrazek and we'll see about Murray but I have a real good idea how that's going to pan out).

 

[andora]

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

?

Neither has yet

And funny still they have to make a reference to a rock em sock em video to typecast that group of people and what they want on their team

 

[Notsince67]

I have brought this up before. His worst moves that even his biggest fans hated were the most praised by the media and detractors. The famous one is the Foligno one. I among other supporters called him out immedietly after that move which funny enough the detractors loved, and the main reason it was loved was because it fit the "old boys club" narrative of people.

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

I dont think you will hear Dubas making excuses like that. Although I disagree will lots of thinks he has done, he has taken full responsibility for his mistakes, to his credit. On balance, he has iced a very good team. If that team cannot break through in the playoffs, it is on the coach. Perhaps he should insist that Keefe take responsibility for that. If players aren't doing the job (and there are a few), make tough personnel decisions on the bench.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I have brought this up before. His worst moves that even his biggest fans hated were the most praised by the media and detractors. The famous one is the Foligno one. I among other supporters called him out immedietly after that move which funny enough the detractors loved, and the main reason it was loved was because it fit the "old boys club" narrative of people.

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

This is such crap.
The losing is on Dubas. It doesn't matter what approach he takes he's failed.
Perhaps he has no clue how to build a balanced team.
The "detractors" dont necessary hate Dubas but want to see success. His fans don't care about playoff results because they're "so random", involve "good luck" and "the refs stole the series"

 

[Notsince67]

Dubas is not a victim of the old boys club. He's had way more handed to him than most GMs and has had the support of the one of the richest franchises in hockey for a half decade.

The moves that he's criticized about he deserves to be criticized for. Those have been discussed ad nauseam so I don't feel the need to bring them up.

A team with Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, etc. failing to get out of round 1 is a failure. You can't blame that on the old boys. Does that failure rest partly on players? Absolutely, but Dubas is the GM and he shares the responsibility.

They all played well enough. Kerfoot, Engval, Kase, Blackwell, Simmons, Lyubushkin, Tavares, Liljegren, & Rielly were the definitive laggards.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas is not a victim of the old boys club. He's had way more handed to him than most GMs and has had the support of the one of the richest franchises in hockey for a half decade.

The moves that he's criticized about he deserves to be criticized for. Those have been discussed ad nauseam so I don't feel the need to bring them up.

A team with Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander, etc. failing to get out of round 1 is a failure. You can't blame that on the old boys. Does that failure rest partly on players? Absolutely, but Dubas is the GM and he shares the responsibility.

He also hired a coach who has been out-coached every series. But sees him as a future legend.

 

[Dreakmur]

I have brought this up before. His worst moves that even his biggest fans hated were the most praised by the media and detractors. The famous one is the Foligno one. I among other supporters called him out immedietly after that move which funny enough the detractors loved, and the main reason it was loved was because it fit the "old boys club" narrative of people.

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

He overpaid, but a healthy Foligno was exactly what the team needed. Part of the overpay was needing double salary retention, cause by poor cap management.

 

[Racer88]

I dont think you will hear Dubas making excuses like that. Although I disagree will lots of thinks he has done, he has taken full responsibility for his mistakes, to his credit. On balance, he has iced a very good team. If that team cannot break through in the playoffs, it is on the coach. Perhaps he should insist that Keefe take responsibility for that. If players aren't doing the job (and there are a few), make tough personnel decisions on the bench.

so Dubas is to soft on the coach and some of the players……..I agree

 

[hamzarocks]

I have brought this up before. His worst moves that even his biggest fans hated were the most praised by the media and detractors. The famous one is the Foligno one. I among other supporters called him out immedietly after that move which funny enough the detractors loved, and the main reason it was loved was because it fit the "old boys club" narrative of people.

When Dubas has stuck to his vision of speed and skill and tenacity, it's worked. When he made moves that satisfied the traditional thinking, its backfired.

Marchment for Malgin alone is an example of going for skill and speed and being a major flop

 

[DarkKnight]

He also hired a coach who has been out-coached every series. But sees him as a future legend.

You’re in win now and you hire a guy with training wheels who needs to grow. We’ve wasted years of our window. Massive fail.

Keefe was so self satisfied after game 3, his team came out exactly like his pre game 4 presser, it’s all gravy, we have the split. I bet he learned his lesson, but this isn’t a training ground.

I’ll never forget “All For Nothing”, the window into Keefe as nothing more than a constant swearing amateur was really disheartending. That stuff has a short shelf life. At least a Torts has some poetry to augment.

 

[notbias]

He also hired a coach who has been out-coached every series. But sees him as a future legend.

How is he outcoached if our team is so terrible? never makes sense to me, the GM assembled a team that is not good enough, but also the coach can't win with the bad team and needs to be fired. Odd.

 

[DarkKnight]

How is he outcoached if our team is so terrible? never makes sense to me, the GM assembled a team that is not good enough, but also the coach can't win with the bad team and needs to be fired. Odd.

Okay so by that logic someone has to go then. You pick and enjoy your intellectual pretzel.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas was gifted easily the greatest goal scorer in Leafs history. Perhaps the best playmaker winger too. Still our top D man. Elite second line winger. You couldn’t ask for a more fortuitous situation to build around, literally the hardest pieces to get. He‘s been fine in some regards, but come on, every would be GM would salivate at the opportunity he was afforded. The fawning is embarrassing.

 

[notbias]

Okay so by that logic someone has to go then. You pick and enjoy your intellectual pretzel.

No, my logic tells me the playoffs are not some guaranteed result and Colorado is a perfect example, based on past results, a second-round exit was expected.

I just don't understand the logic of the team not being built right and then also saying the coach is being outcoached if the expected result happens.

 

[DarkKnight]

No, my logic tells me the playoffs are not some guaranteed result and Colorado is a perfect example, based on past results, a second-round exit was expected.

I just don't understand the logic of the team not being built right and then also saying the coach is being outcoached if the expected result happens.

Okay so which is it, the coach or the team? Maybe a bit of both, an unseasoned coach who doesn’t understand the big moments and a team that lacks the fortitude to push through. We had three key games to bury TB, we lost all three, and we’re content with that somehow, that’s what I don’t get. Shanahan a decade ago would rip the rhetoric he spews now, the consolation prize routine and next year are a loser mentality. Sport doesn’t work this way, bringing everything back sends a complacent message.

Anyways, I’ll be fooling myself again next year, but it feels like gambling really. Go Leafs Go!

 

[nuck]

No, my logic tells me the playoffs are not some guaranteed result and Colorado is a perfect example, based on past results, a second-round exit was expected.

I just don't understand the logic of the team not being built right and then also saying the coach is being outcoached if the expected result happens.

A team being outcoached loses a playoff round. A team with a bad structure can lose every playoff round. Both factors can be in play, they don't need to be exclusive. However a poorly structured team can still win with enough talent and the right bounces. And a mediocre coach can do deep in the playoffs so long as he isn't outsmarted every series and his key guys bail him out. I believe this Leafs team with this coach has a chance, its just less likely to succeed than Kyle has expected. I think Keefe is a better coach than his first season so maybe he has continued to learn from each loss.

To be fair there are more ways to have a less than ideal lineup than having half your cap spent on 4 players. In hindsight can't every decent club that falls short point to an area that could have been better with a few adjustments? Its just the Leafs big 4 is setup is the thing that never changes after ever playoff loss. A pessimist will say they keep repeating the same lineup mistake every year whereas every other club is failing because they are making a new lineup mistake every year.