Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

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You trade a 3rd line energy guy for top 10 goaltending every day of the week. The rest is just noise and angry opinions.
Moore would legitimately be the best LW on the Leafs this season. For reference Andersen was 4th in the league SV% throughout his tenure with Toronto and 7th this year. He is paid 700k more than Mrazek.

Yawn…. Chug another natty light Daryl
You respond to a legitimate criticism with this and then proceed to complain about noise in this forum.
 
Moore would legitimately be the best LW on the Leafs this season. For reference Andersen was 4th in the league SV% throughout his tenure with Toronto and 7th this year. He is paid 700k more than Mrazek.
I’m glad Fred had a bounce back year in quiet Carolina.
His last year here he was unavailable to the team that had paid him for the four previous seasons due to an undiagnosed unidentifiable knee injury. An injury the most robust and expansive medical team in the league couldn’t find.
He quit on the team. Plain and simple.
Moore wouldn’t be the best LW bunting, kerf and mik would’ve all been ahead on the depth chart

You respond to a legitimate criticism with this and then proceed to complain about noise in this forum.
Yes, because it’s old tired shit that’s been beaten to death by the dusty crowd in here.
 
He’s doing better because he has a role. He didn’t have one here.

That’s the biggest issue Dubas has had. He doesn’t understand that you can’t just throw good players together. Guys need roles and they need to be able to bring different skills.
This!
Thornton
Ritchie
Petan
Malgin
Barabanov
Lehtonen
Vesey
Klimchuk
carcone
Harpur
Lucchuk
Rosen
Hallander
Galchenyuk
Nash
Foligno
Hutton
Riitich
Clifford
Simmonds
 
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I’m glad Fred had a bounce back year in quiet Carolina.
His last year here he was unavailable to the team that had paid him for the four previous seasons due to an undiagnosed unidentifiable knee injury. An injury the most robust and expansive medical team in the league couldn’t find.
He quit on the team. Plain and simple.
Moore wouldn’t be the best LW bunting, kerf and mik would’ve all been ahead on the depth chart


Yes, because it’s old tired shit that’s been beaten to death by the dusty crowd in here.
I think you're missing the forest from the trees here. Dubas took over this core 4 years ago and hasn't won a round.
 
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I think you're missing the forest from the trees here. Dubas took over this core 4 years ago and hasn't won a round.
I think you’re confusing me for someone who gives a shit what you others’ opinions of success and failure are, I saw a team push the soon to be 3x cup champs as far as they’ve been pushed in 3 post seasons. I would’ve loved to of won a round, but I also see the process and the team growing.
Tampa literally just cake walked the big bad panthers, the team a lot here were creaming themselves over hoping the leafs could be like.
 
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Blame the players they say
Who is responsible for assembling the team and making changes as they go?
Why ever fire a GM/coach if it's all on the players?
Nonsense
Blame the players or the GM is a good question IMO and is something I've been struggling with. But assuming you blame Dubas which seems obvious, which players are the ones you think he should move on from?

It’s a GM’s job to see past the present when making a trade. Both of those trades ultimately set the team backwards. It is likely that neither Campbell or Muzzin are on this team next year and the Leafs never won anything with them on the team. Moore/Durzi would 100% be on the team moving forward.
This is nonsense. Like I said before, almost everyone liked those trades. It's easy to say with hindsight that we never won with them so they were dumb trades, anyone could do that. Why don't you try deciding at the time the trades were made that we'll never win and we shouldn't do anything that makes us weaker a few years down the line? I can guarantee you will be laughed out of town because every TDL it's the same thing around here, almost everyone is saying you gotta go allin, keep our own rentals, you only get so many chances to win etc. Hell I was one of those wanting to trade JVR in his final year here and even that far back, most people were saying we should go for it.
 
I asked you if you watched the playoffs and you come back with this crapola? Seriously? Campbell slumped for months and Mrazek had multiple injury issues during his worst season ever, despite that we finished 4th overall and you're pointing to some cherry picked regular season games to make some sort of point?

I can't wait to see what you come up with next!!

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
Pointing to 2 players that Dubas was responsible for bringing in is a weird "flex" for Dubas. The team can coast to regular season "success" because of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares (Dubas signing), Rielly.......you know the core players he inherited (aside from Tavares).
 
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It's nice that all 3 guys get their training wheels here
And that's the biggest problem right there.

Shanahan came in with a good vision imo and the organization needed a fresh perspective.

Dubas was too soon, but I can still even get behind him a bit. He has improved marginally while also making some very significant mistakes.

But then the cherry on top was Keefe. You don't waste the primes of home grown stars / super stars with a rookie coach. I don't think you can find another coach in the entire league who would sound like such a loser, both with the split comments and even bothering to mentioning respect.

Fans were upset because Cooper sounded mean. Apparently he was too insulting to the Leafs players. He was losing the room, etc. We can see plain as day now that what he actually did was motivate his team, and is unapologetically leading them to a threepeat.

Cooper did it right. He had some nice things to say but he didn't say them till the round was over and game 7 was won. The gentleman vanilla bs that Keefe seems to think is motivating is simply weakness.

Keefe will probably learn and eventually get it right, I just don't want to waste anymore seasons waiting for that to happen.

Because of that Dubas has failed the only test that matters; winning in the playoffs.
 
Imo this year was not fair to judge as we should have beaten what looks to be a dynasty had it not been for Kerfoots 2 crucial errors, and he's not even a guy who usually makes those bonehead plays either.

But overall to say he's had sucess is not true, it feels like we're close but we don't have any results to prove that.

Either way it looks like we are going to do one more run with this core, or most of it, and then we'll see what happens.
 
I think you’re confusing me for someone who gives a shit what you others’ opinions of success and failure are, I saw a team push the soon to be 3x cup champs as far as they’ve been pushed in 3 post seasons. I would’ve loved to of won a round, but I also see the process and the team growing.
Tampa literally just cake walked the big bad panthers, the team a lot here were creaming themselves over hoping the leafs could be like.

Tampa toyed with us for 5 games and won 6 and 7

We also didn't show up in 2/4 and until the second in 5/6/7. That's not success.

Let's look at the other teams in the East

Do we beat:

East

Carolina: no
Tampa: no
Pitt: not with Crosby playing how he did
Ny maybe depends on Igor
Boston maybe but they have us mindf***ed

Florida: yes
Caps: yes

West
Avs: no
Blues : no
Flames: no
Oilers: probably not with how mcdavid is playing
Stars: not if Keefe still can't figure out the trap

Kings: yes
Wild: yes

It's funny that you say big bad Panthers. Everyone knew they would shit the bed in the playoffs they were lucky to beat a caps team that barely gives a f***

Maybe is dubas is working for the habs

He's not francophone they'd never hire him

Maybe if he changed his name to Jaques Dubas
 
Pointing to 2 players that Dubas was responsible for bringing in is a weird "flex" for Dubas. The team can coast to regular season "success" because of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares (Dubas signing), Rielly.......you know the core players he inherited (aside from Tavares).
It's never Dubas's fault. The players he signs if they get injured even if already injury prone, he couldn't help it. Core doesn't play up to par - we'll he can't play for them.
Huge goalie issue going into next season - tell me who's out there!!
Keefe gets out coached once again - he's learning
 
Pointing to 2 players that Dubas was responsible for bringing in is a weird "flex" for Dubas. The team can coast to regular season "success" because of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares (Dubas signing), Rielly.......you know the core players he inherited (aside from Tavares).
What's weird is you cherry picking our worst games of the season and thinking you've made some sort of valid point. :huh:
 
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And that's the biggest problem right there.

Shanahan came in with a good vision imo and the organization needed a fresh perspective.

Dubas was too soon, but I can still even get behind him a bit. He has improved marginally while also making some very significant mistakes.

But then the cherry on top was Keefe. You don't waste the primes of home grown stars / super stars with a rookie coach. I don't think you can find another coach in the entire league who would sound like such a loser, both with the split comments and even bothering to mentioning respect.

Fans were upset because Cooper sounded mean. Apparently he was too insulting to the Leafs players. He was losing the room, etc. We can see plain as day now that what he actually did was motivate his team, and is unapologetically leading them to a threepeat.

Cooper did it right. He had some nice things to say but he didn't say them till the round was over and game 7 was won. The gentleman vanilla bs that Keefe seems to think is motivating is simply weakness.

Keefe will probably learn and eventually get it right, I just don't want to waste anymore seasons waiting for that to happen.

Because of that Dubas has failed the only test that matters; winning in the playoffs.

Pittsburgh didn’t have that problem with Mike Sullivan, Dan Bylsma, or Bob Johnson … Habs did pretty well when Scotty Bowman came in as a rookie too.

Rookies can be more than qualified for success.
 
Pittsburgh didn’t have that problem with Mike Sullivan, Dan Bylsma, or Bob Johnson … Habs did pretty well when Scotty Bowman came in as a rookie too.

Rookies can be more than qualified for success.
Sure but did the Pens or Habs have rookie GM's as well?
 
Steve Yzerman got hired in 2010 John Cooper got hired in 2013. Yzerman was GM for nine years and quit before winning a cup. Cooper coached them seven years before he won the cup. Patient sometimes pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. Imho the leafs have not become worse, regular season wise, but status quo in the playoffs still unfortunately. I’m not disappointed they’re both coming back but if they both got fired I’d understand why.
He did have 2 ECF and 1 SCF appearance during those 7 years

We have 2C’s a 1D and 2 top end 1W we just need a goalie and some filler. Good thing it’s the off season and this group has shown a propensity to be proactive

Some filler.......yep sounds like a Kyle fan.
 
Hell I was one of those wanting to trade JVR in his final year here and even that far back, most people were saying we should go for it.
I agree with most of your post. I was also on this bandwagon. The assets the team missed out on from keeping JVR/Bozak/Komarov and acquiring Plekanec has always been painful.
 
Let me put it this way if Dubas is no longer GM today. He is the same as Lou, and I think Nonis as Leafs GM who only helped the team into playoffs. GM is not remembered by their regular season success.
 
What's weird is you cherry picking our worst games of the season and thinking you've made some sort of valid point. :huh:
I'm not sure what you a referring to, I didn't cherry pick or give any examples in my response. Are you talking about cherry picking the 7 game sample size that is also known as the playoffs? is there an argument that the playoffs don't show what a team is capable of and better to use the 82 game regular season to determine how good a team is?
 
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But for an almost unprecedented stroke of good fortune, they lose the CBJ series 3-1 but blew that luck not being ready in Game 5
Is there a reason that our last minute comeback and overtime win is "an almost unprecedented stroke of good fortune", but when Tampa does it it's because they're a much, much better and experienced team?
 
He did have 2 ECF and 1 SCF appearance during those 7 years



Some filler.......yep sounds like a Kyle fan.
That’s a good point, there was a lot more success with Cooper then what Keefe has had. I felt this year was an improvement though and Keefe probably deserves another chance, imho we’re really close.
 
GM is not remembered by their regular season success.
Of course they are. JFJ and Nonis both assembled teams that were absolutely dogshit in the regular season, I'll dare to say that they're remembered for that. It's fair enough that people want to get mad at Dubas for the team not advancing in the playoffs, but the whole "regular season success doesn't matter" spiel is reductive to the point of absurdity. What matters is whether or not a GM assembles a good hockey team. Playoff success is part of what determines whether or not a hockey team is good, but at some point the narratives have to matter less than how the Maple Leafs actually play.

People who cling to the playoff narrative as their only argument are genuinely more stubborn than the advanced stats folks.
 
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