Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Morbo]

he hasn't passed anything. team hasn't won 1 series against anybody, good or bad.

 

[Nylanderthal]

When will it go on the Players? what else is Dubas suppose to do? he has actually put together pretty good teams. Dubas gets a little too much hate imo

Toronto’s always had this weird fascination with obsessing over the GM and coach and failing to hold the players who actually play on the ice accountable.
It’s especially present in the dusty, jean jacket wearing, natty light drinking letterkenny/Sunnyvale Toronto sun reading part of the fan base who are threatened by kyles appearance as a GM, he’s not what these folks expect their hockey manager to look like so they pile on the nonsense.

 

[m1ker]

But for an almost unprecedented stroke of good fortune, they lose the CBJ series 3-1 but blew that luck not being ready in Game 5
They failed to come out ready in games 5, 6, & 7 against Montreal.

So it's not so much about rolling over as it is about not being prepared at puck drop.....coach or players?

And how many games did they not come out ready to play against Tampa? 2,4,5(comeback win), and 6. How many games did they have to pull their goalie in MTL or CBJ?

 

[pcruz]

Did you not watch the blowout 7-1 loss to the Wilkes Scranton Penguins?
Did you not watch the 5-1 and 5-2 losses to bottom-feeder Buffalo?
Did you not watch the 2 losses to bottom-feeder Arizona?
Did you not watch the multiple humiliating losses to bottom-feeder Montreal this past season?
What about the 8-1 loss to Tampa near the end of the year?

This team continues to play only when they feel like, and takes the night off whenever they think they can scrape by with minimal effort.

This is so pathetic it barely requires anyone to acknowledge it.
However, because it's so endemic to this fanbase, these kinds of posts have to be ridiculed enough to make them go away slowly, but surely.

Almost beat a powerhouse. And you see no problem with that statement. He's not a complete moron but an arrogant failure who is wasting away years here with his sure-fire vision

I don't know the guy personally, and nothing I've read or heard suggest he's a "complete moron, [and] and arrogant".
How is he in a social setting, since you obviously spend a lot of time with him, at least enough time to notice his arrogance that is so massaged and squashed in every single of his public speaking events.
The guy is like Lou where he speaks a lot, but says little.

His on the job learning cost the Leafs millions of dollars. The poor negotiation of the contracts and how they’ve had to manage the cap because of that misstep has had a ripple effect to this day.
They should always have a payroll at the top of the cap, but they spent extra dollars on LTIR, Bonuses they’ve paid and traded the AAV, lost playoff revenues.

Are you worried about the money this organization has made or lost?
Why on Earth would anyone care what an organization worth billions, with 2 parent companies worth tens of billions, spends on overages due to injured players.
Especially considering that players on LTIR are generally paid out by private insurance companies and not the teams (Horton aside of course).


Stick to relevant facts.

What moves, acquisitions did the guy make that were good and/or bad.
Leave personal attacks out of the conversation and please for the love of all that is holy, don't talk about how poor MLSE has spent more money than it need have spent over the last 6 years.

 

[ACC1224]

let’s get one thing straight because there are still some people who can’t comprehend simple logic here. Kyle Dubas walked into one of the absolute BEST situations to be in as a GM at the start of his tenure.

Oh boo hoo, he had to resign his franchise players, it’s Lou’s fault! Give me a f***ing break people. Think to yourself, when do GMs usually start with a new franchise? When that franchise is in turmoil and on the downswing.

Poor Kyle was “saddled” with a team many believed had all the right pieces to compete for Cups for a decade+, tons of cap space, to maneuver with, all his draft picks, and all the resources the richest club in the league has to offer.

So please STFU with this Kyle had it rough nonsense. It’s seriously idiotic.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The person that chose to have them/ keep them on the team fed them insane amounts of cash/ hired the coach that's supposed to motive them and is in charge of shaking up the room if things go wrong never has any accountability

Why should they

What insane amounts of cash were given out to undeserving players? You could MAYBE argue that combined the three amigos are 1-2m overpaid combined…. Look at the historical contracts for elite 1C top 5 picks coming out of the first lockout, pretty much every single time it was 5 years and similar cap% than what Auston received. Willy is underpaid. Mitch you can say should be closer to 10 than 11, but the guy showed this year he’s a 110+ Capable player, those don’t grow on trees.
Old tired narrative is old and tired

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Bottom line a regular season GM not a playoff GM .. 2 different games .. very hard job rostering a team which can make playoffs and then has what is needed to win playoff hockey with CBA and CAP .. but basic elements have always been da same .. 2C's 1D and 1G and then a scoring winger as 5th wheel .. we have 1 1C and da 5th wheel that's it .. missing 3 out of 5 core guys to win a Cup now

 

[Nylanderthal]

Did you not watch the blowout 7-1 loss to the Wilkes Scranton Penguins?
Did you not watch the 5-1 and 5-2 losses to bottom-feeder Buffalo?
Did you not watch the 2 losses to bottom-feeder Arizona?
Did you not watch the multiple humiliating losses to bottom-feeder Montreal this past season?
What about the 8-1 loss to Tampa near the end of the year?

This team continues to play only when they feel like, and takes the night off whenever they think they can scrape by with minimal effort.

Six games out of an 82 game schedule. Promise you you’d find similar losses for every team in the League. Small sample size is small

Bottom line a regular season GM not a playoff GM .. 2 different games .. very hard job rostering a team which can make playoffs and then has what is needed to win playoff hockey with CBA and CAP .. but basic elements have always been da same .. 2C's 1D and 1G and then a scoring winger as 5th wheel .. we have 1 1C and da 5th wheel that's it .. missing 3 out of 5 core guys to win a Cup now

Ba da da da da daaaaa

 

[Nylanderthal]

let’s get one thing straight because there are still some people who can’t comprehend simple logic here. Kyle Dubas walked into one of the absolute BEST situations to be in as a GM at the start of his tenure.

Oh boo hoo, he had to resign his franchise players, it’s Lou’s fault! Give me a f***ing break people. Think to yourself, when do GMs usually start with a new franchise? When that franchise is in turmoil and on the downswing.

Poor Kyle was “saddled” with a team many believed had all the right pieces to compete for Cups for a decade+, tons of cap space, to maneuver with, all his draft picks, and all the resources the richest club in the league has to offer.

So please STFU with this Kyle had it rough nonsense. It’s seriously idiotic.

And the sage wisdom from his predecessor that “if you have time, use it” who allowed Willy’s elc to expire and instead of nailing down an extension decides to extend Zaitsev for 7 seasons (he’s a buy out candidate in Ottawa now) and old geezer marleau who came in to town and really showed the kids that it’s about the money.
Kyle made mistakes, but a lot were situations he was set up to fail in by his “mentor”

 

[Nylanderthal]

That was Dubas' inexperience with building a team. Barrie didn't have a role here. Rielly ran the PP. The only way to make a role for Barrie was to take it away from Rielly.

You’re telling me a top PPQB and top 4RD on a team in need of a bomb from the point and some puck moving from the right side couldn’t carve out a role? What nonsense, Barrie openly said his time here (Babcock) sucked and just look at his production every year aside the one spent here and come to the same conclusion

If you look at raw totals only, sure. The team as topped the league standing 6 times before. They played fewer games, so they didn't put up the same totals.

No one cares about a six team intramural house league

 

[Mad hatter]

Steve Yzerman got hired in 2010 John Cooper got hired in 2013. Yzerman was GM for nine years and quit before winning a cup. Cooper coached them seven years before he won the cup. Patient sometimes pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. Imho the leafs have not become worse, regular season wise, but status quo in the playoffs still unfortunately. I’m not disappointed they’re both coming back but if they both got fired I’d understand why.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Bottom line a regular season GM not a playoff GM .. 2 different games .. very hard job rostering a team which can make playoffs and then has what is needed to win playoff hockey with CBA and CAP .. but basic elements have always been da same .. 2C's 1D and 1G and then a scoring winger as 5th wheel .. we have 1 1C and da 5th wheel that's it .. missing 3 out of 5 core guys to win a Cup now

We have 2C’s a 1D and 2 top end 1W we just need a goalie and some filler. Good thing it’s the off season and this group has shown a propensity to be proactive

 

[ShaneFalco]

Blame the players they say
Who is responsible for assembling the team and making changes as they go?
Why ever fire a GM/coach if it's all on the players?
Nonsense

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We have 2C’s a 1D and 2 top end 1W we just need a goalie and some filler. Good thing it’s the off season and this group has shown a propensity to be proactive

Keep buying into da BS ... but dreamers make da world go round .. Rielly will never be Hedman (not even remotely close) .. JT is near done as a C (he is going on wing next year or two) (he lost to Nick Paul this year)

 

[Nylanderthal]

Blame the players they say
Who is responsible for assembling the team and making changes as they go?
Why ever fire a GM/coach if it's all on the players?
Nonsense

Did the players fail to execute when put in a position to succeed? Or were they never in an opportunity to succeed? Seeing as they’ve been up in their last three full length 7 game series 3-2 3-1 and 3-2 and failed to gain the final win while having success in larger sample sizes during the regular seasons it’s pretty easy to assess the situation as the players on the ice not executing when in high pressure situations.
That’s not something the GM or even the coach can control beyond who to put out there in said situations.
Do you have any specific gripes about player utilization?

 

[ToneDog]

How can you claim the Muzzin/Campbell trades were wins? The Leafs got 22 playoff games out of Muzzin and now his contract is a problem - Durzi/Bjornfot will be a contributor for the next 10 years. Campbell provided 2 years of 10th best goaltending in the league in exchange for Moore who is an important part of the best checking line in the league and locked in for under 2M.

Kapanen was a decent trade at the time but doesn't move the needle in hindsight. It would be completely different if they kept Rodrigues.

Galchenyuk was irrelevant. He put up less than 0.5 PPG in a top 6 role. He also cost the Leafs in OT of game 5.

You already stated why the McCann deal doesn't matter.

Lyubushkin was the Leafs worst defenseman from the point he arrived and they gave up a 2nd round pick.

Giordano was a decent trade but they also gave up 2 2nds a 3rd which is a ton of draft capital considering how Dubas has drafted in the 2nd.

Would be nice to be on the right side of the Kadri and Foligno trades once in a while.

 

[Americanadian]

Because it's obvious that they were.

It's hilarious how so everything Dubas has ever done is considered to be awful today by some people, even the moves like the Muzzin trade which were almost universally praised.

It’s a GM’s job to see past the present when making a trade. Both of those trades ultimately set the team backwards. It is likely that neither Campbell or Muzzin are on this team next year and the Leafs never won anything with them on the team. Moore/Durzi would 100% be on the team moving forward.

If you just want to bash Dubas, I guess I'll just let you go to it.

The content writes itself unfortunately.

 

[rocketman588]

What insane amounts of cash were given out to undeserving players? You could MAYBE argue that combined the three amigos are 1-2m overpaid combined…. Look at the historical contracts for elite 1C top 5 picks coming out of the first lockout, pretty much every single time it was 5 years and similar cap% than what Auston received. Willy is underpaid. Mitch you can say should be closer to 10 than 11, but the guy showed this year he’s a 110+ Capable player, those don’t grow on trees.
Old tired narrative is old and tired

Instead of paying them on their current accomplishments or a mix of accomplishments and potential he paid them 100% on potential because he thought he'd reset the market

Not to mention the idiotic thought process of the term of the deal and giving them everything in terms of bonus structure etc. He paid them mcdavid money without the accomplishment at the time of the contract with less term.

The nmc the last year of Matthews is absolutely criminal. We're basically guaranteed to have to bend over and give him what he wants ( and it's not even guaranteed he resigns if we do that) no matter who is in charge because we won't be able to move him.

He should have been fired on the spot as soon as he agreed to that it was absolutely f***ing dumb

 

[Nylanderthal]

Instead of paying them on their current accomplishments or a mix of accomplishments and potential he paid them 100% on potential because he thought he'd reset the market

Not to mention the idiotic thought process of the term of the deal and giving them everything in terms of bonus structure etc. He paid them mcdavid money without the accomplishment at the time of the contract with less term.

The nmc the last year of Matthews is absolutely criminal. We're basically guaranteed to have to bend over and give him what he wants ( and it's not even guaranteed he resigns if we do that) no matter who is in charge because we won't be able to move him.

He should have been fired on the spot as soon as he agreed to that it was absolutely f***ing dumb

Yawn…. Chug another natty light Daryl

 

[rocketman588]

We have 2C’s a 1D and 2 top end 1W we just need a goalie and some filler. Good thing it’s the off season and this group has shown a propensity to be proactive

So out of a 23 man roster we have 5/8 useable players along with 0 goalie's and that's acceptable?

Yawn…. Chug another natty light Daryl

Have nothing else to do since our team is eliminated because you're boy can't build a playoff contender

More time in the off season for you to give him handies I guess though

 

[Nylanderthal]

How can you claim the Muzzin/Campbell trades were wins? The Leafs got 22 playoff games out of Muzzin and now his contract is a problem - Durzi/Bjornfot will be a contributor for the next 10 years. Campbell provided 2 years of 10th best goaltending in the league in exchange for Moore who is an important part of the best checking line in the league and locked in for under 2M.

Kapanen was a decent trade at the time but doesn't move the needle in hindsight. It would be completely different if they kept Rodrigues.

Galchenyuk was irrelevant. He put up less than 0.5 PPG in a top 6 role. He also cost the Leafs in OT of game 5.

You already stated why the McCann deal doesn't matter.

Lyubushkin was the Leafs worst defenseman from the point he arrived and they gave up a 2nd round pick.

Giordano was a decent trade but they also gave up 2 2nds a 3rd which is a ton of draft capital considering how Dubas has drafted in the 2nd.

You trade a 3rd line energy guy for top 10 goaltending every day of the week.
The rest is just noise and angry opinions

So out of a 23 man roster we have 5/8 useable players along with 0 goalie's and that's acceptable?

I was speaking to the foundational pieces that were laid out in the post I quoted by local hockey dad/amateur scout JTAMbadadadadadaaaa

 

[Dreakmur]

You’re telling me a top PPQB and top 4RD on a team in need of a bomb from the point and some puck moving from the right side couldn’t carve out a role? What nonsense, Barrie openly said his time here (Babcock) sucked and just look at his production every year aside the one spent here and come to the same conclusion

I’m telling you the only way to give Barrie a role was to take that role away from Rielly. That doesn’t add point, it’s just takes them away from one guy and gives them to another. Keefe did swap Barrie for Rielly, but it was a transparent attempt to help Dubas justify a bad trade.

I personally wanted to use both Rielly and Barrie on the PP and take Nylander off, but neither Babcock nor Keefe used 2 defensemen.

No one cares about a six team intramural house league

You might it, but those were objectively the franchise’s best seasons.

 

[Nineteen67]

This is so pathetic it barely requires anyone to acknowledge it.
However, because it's so endemic to this fanbase, these kinds of posts have to be ridiculed enough to make them go away slowly, but surely.




I don't know the guy personally, and nothing I've read or heard suggest he's a "complete moron, [and] and arrogant".
How is he in a social setting, since you obviously spend a lot of time with him, at least enough time to notice his arrogance that is so massaged and squashed in every single of his public speaking events.
The guy is like Lou where he speaks a lot, but says little.




Are you worried about the money this organization has made or lost?
Why on Earth would anyone care what an organization worth billions, with 2 parent companies worth tens of billions, spends on overages due to injured players.
Especially considering that players on LTIR are generally paid out by private insurance companies and not the teams (Horton aside of course).


Stick to relevant facts.

What moves, acquisitions did the guy make that were good and/or bad.
Leave personal attacks out of the conversation and please for the love of all that is holy, don't talk about how poor MLSE has spent more money than it need have spent over the last 6 years.

Sure the millions of wasted or unrealized capital is important when evaluating the GM and the President.

Like I said, the negotiations with the RFAs put the team in position where they were I’ll equipped to win and it has cost the on the ice and in the pocketbook.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’m telling you the only way to give Barrie a role was to take that role away from Rielly. That doesn’t add point, it’s just takes them away from one guy and gives them to another. Keefe did swap Barrie for Rielly, but it was a transparent attempt to help Dubas justify a bad trade.

I personally wanted to use both Rielly and Barrie on the PP and take Nylander off, but neither Babcock nor Keefe used 2 defensemen.



You might it, but those were objectively the franchise’s best seasons.

I agree more 2D PP looks would’ve been nice it to split the units more evenly and have rielly with Willy on one and Barrie with the big guns on the other. It’s unfortunate the pieces didn’t fit but he’s se kingly doing fine now in Edmonton and they have other PP options on the back end

 

[Dreakmur]

I agree more 2D PP looks would’ve been nice it to split the units more evenly and have rielly with Willy on one and Barrie with the big guns on the other. It’s unfortunate the pieces didn’t fit but he’s se kingly doing fine now in Edmonton and they have other PP options on the back end

He’s doing better because he has a role. He didn’t have one here.

That’s the biggest issue Dubas has had. He doesn’t understand that you can’t just throw good players together. Guys need roles and they need to be able to bring different skills.