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Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

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ToneDog said:
Sadly you are not wrong. Funny you say this, I said yesterday I could make the playoffs with the 105 point team Lou left us by leaving it in auto pilot.
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Here's a more conventional less clever approach to managing this team: A conventional GM would have just lumped Marleau's last season, not signed Tavares once they saw the size of the demand, signed Nylander to a bridge deal, long term signed Matthews generously as he was signed, signed Marner for considerably less than Matthews, kept and helped to stabilize Kadri's passion for winning, kept Kapanen, Johnsson and Brown, lumped Zaitsev's bad deal for several more seasons, considered unsexy prospects like Grundstrom and Marchment unmoveable elements as potential vital grunt support, drafted Konecny, drafted defensemen almost exclusively over 6' or taller, etc.
 
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francis246 said:
lol, you're talking shit. Ferguson NEVER made the playoffs. Dubas at least has. Ferguson made atrocious trades and traded away a franchise goalie away in Rask. Traded our first round pick that would have been Couture a future #1 center for one of the worst goalies in the NHL.

It's not even close. JFJ was a horrible GM and probably the worst in Franchise history. I would also argue Burke was the most disappointing GM based on reputation. He drafted a few good key players but outside of that he destroyed this team.
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JFJ not only made the playoffs but made the second round.

He also had the previous TML point record of 103 prior to Lou
 
Meh... I'd rather 2 years of Murray at 4 milliom than 5 years of Campbell at 5 million. If murray runs into injuries than we just put him on IR. I'm not particularly upset either.. this is what a team has to do when you have 3 of the top 6 paid NHL players. Imo if those players aren't putting you over top of other teams than you should make changes to those players..... Dubas, after 3 years, still refuses to do so.
 
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justashadowof said:
Here's a more conventional less clever approach to managing this team: A conventional GM would have just lumped Marleau's last season, not signed Tavares once they saw the size of the demand, signed Nylander to a bridge deal, long term signed Matthews generously as he was signed, signed Marner for considerably less than Matthews, kept and helped to stabilize Kadri's passion for winning, kept Kapanen, Johnsson and Brown, lumped Zaitsev's bad deal for several more seasons, considered unsexy prospects like Grundstrom and Marchment unmoveable elements as potential vital grunt support, drafted Konecny, drafted defensemen almost exclusively over 6' or taller, etc.
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Dubas wasn't the idiot who traded down from Konecny and these moves by Hunter are the reasons Dubas got the gm job and Hunter didn't. Dubas, like most, expected the cap to go up during Marner and Matthews contracts and because COVID it didn't, however Dubas hasn't responded to the change and instead is trying to fluke out a championship. If Murray regains form and one or two of Robertson, Sandin or Liljegren develop into top 6 or a top pairing defender next year, than we could win a championship. However - I don't think we stand a chance without 2 out of three of these coming true.
 
Antropovsky said:
Dubas wasn't the idiot who traded down from Konecny and these moves by Hunter are the reasons Dubas got the gm job and Hunter didn't. Dubas, like most, expected the cap to go up during Marner and Matthews contracts and because COVID it didn't, however Dubas hasn't responded to the change and instead is trying to fluke out a championship. If Murray regains form and one or two of Robertson, Sandin or Liljegren develop into top 6 or a top pairing defender next year, than we could win a championship. However - I don't think we stand a chance without 2 out of three of these coming true.
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hunter lou dubas are all one squad and ok-ed each others moves. The moves they made / make are revealing it more and more. I wouldn't want any of the 3.
 
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francis246 said:
lol, you're talking shit. Ferguson NEVER made the playoffs. Dubas at least has. Ferguson made atrocious trades and traded away a franchise goalie away in Rask. Traded our first round pick that would have been Couture a future #1 center for one of the worst goalies in the NHL.

It's not even close. JFJ was a horrible GM and probably the worst in Franchise history. I would also argue Burke was the most disappointing GM based on reputation. He drafted a few good key players but outside of that he destroyed this team.
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Ferguson did make the playoffs in 2003-04 with the team he inherited. Do not forget that Ferguson inherited a team on the decline. Sundin was 32 and others like Tucker, McCabe and Mogilny were already lesser players. While Ferguson did inherit some young talent (Wellwood, Stajan, Steen, Colaiacovo, Antropov, Ponikarovsky), none of them were the level of talent that any of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri and Rielly are.
 
francis246 said:
lol, you're talking shit. Ferguson NEVER made the playoffs. Dubas at least has. Ferguson made atrocious trades and traded away a franchise goalie away in Rask. Traded our first round pick that would have been Couture a future #1 center for one of the worst goalies in the NHL.

It's not even close. JFJ was a horrible GM and probably the worst in Franchise history. I would also argue Burke was the most disappointing GM based on reputation. He drafted a few good key players but outside of that he destroyed this team.
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rocketman588 said:
JFJ not only made the playoffs but made the second round.

He also had the previous TML point record of 103 prior to Lou
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JFJ did in fact make the 2nd round.

Just wasn't prepared coming out of the lock out, the Leafs were used to having no salary cap and didn't have a prospect pool so the aging roster wasn't as good as it was prior to the lockout.

Dubas inherited Matthews, Marner, and 88

Rielly and Kadri on sweet heart contracts

Ton of cap space and he chose to use it all on JT

He didn't know a pandemic would screw the cap but he didn't pivot either.
 
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rocketman588 said:
He arguably got a better team and currently has a better coach but 🤷🏼‍♂️
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again I don't care for Dubas, but to sit here and say he's the most disappointing GM is false. Burke was far more disappointing, he gutted the team and truly surrounded Kessel with basement level players. JFJ had the team in the No Salary Cap era and couldn't even put a good team together and convince UFA's in their prime to sign here with unlimited resources. Then lets not even talk about the GM in 80's who did nothing really with the team.
 
Goaltending is the undoing of each and every GM it seems. JFJ's inability to get a reliable goalie at a very high cost kept him from getting his slipping veteran team into the playoffs when really it should have at least qualified for the playoffs. Fletcher was stuck with the mediocre NHL goalie Felix Potvin became eventually unable to qualify for the playoffs until Ken Dryden came into town, replaced Fletcher and insisted upon a goaltender upgrade. Leafs' GMs couldn't source a reliable goaltender from the 1st departure of Mike Palmateer in the late 1970s until Fletcher overpaid huge to bring Grant Fuhr to town.
 
Felix the Cat Potvin said:
I don't think the issue is Tavares exactly. People dissect the on-ice results to death, but what often matters is the chemistry behind the scenes. I think we all know it. Tavares and Matthews are polar opposites in terms of personality. I can't imagine them having a conversation. Yet they're our two most important players. Add in the captain controversy and you have a very weird vibe in the locker-room.

The Tavares signing was a rookie GM looking to make a splash and prove to everyone what a great GM he was without any consideration of the actual impact on the team. It makes me feel genuinely sick to think of the team we missed out on with Kadri as 2C, Matthews as captain of a truly young and exciting team not burdened with slowing vets, and a genuine middle-6 of all the character players we ushered out the door (Marchment, Kapanen, Hyman, Moore, Mikheyev, Brown).
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I always thought Rielly was pur most important player.
 
justashadowof said:
Goaltending is the undoing of each and every GM it seems. JFJ's inability to get a reliable goalie at a very high cost kept him from getting his slipping veteran team into the playoffs when really it should have at least qualified for the playoffs. Fletcher was stuck with the mediocre NHL goalie Felix Potvin became eventually unable to qualify for the playoffs until Ken Dryden came into town, replaced Fletcher and insisted upon a goaltender upgrade. Leafs' GMs couldn't source a reliable goaltender from the 1st departure of Mike Palmateer in the late 1970s until Fletcher overpaid huge to bring Grant Fuhr to town.
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Whatever happened to Pat Quinn?

I don't ever recall Ken Dryden making trades, drafting, and signing players.
 
My biggest issue with Dubas is undervaluing assets. Like, losing a deal once in a while is fine. Its part of business, EVERY GM does it. But when you have to rationalize every single deal he makes to find some good part it becomes too much.

He throws away NHL players for AHL players all the time (Johnsson for Anderson etc). Loss.

He moves mid round picks out all the time to get out of bad deals. Loss

He moves high picks to get out of deals. Loss (this I actually have less issues with ...Mrazek, Marleau etc).

And now hes added a new column of undervaluing....taking a boat anchor from a divisional rival without nearly enough sweetner

Id dearly love him to just move an asset and bring back a great package or young players/prospects/picks. They dont have to be A grade assets, but someone I can hope to see on the Leafs and not just sent immediately to the Marlies with no intention to ever play in the NHL.

Like I feel if Holl or Kerfoot is moved (both NHL players) we're just going to get this summers versions of Joey Anderson back.
 
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WTFMAN99 said:
JFJ did in fact make the 2nd round.

Just wasn't prepared coming out of the lock out, the Leafs were used to having no salary cap and didn't have a prospect pool so the aging roster wasn't as good as it was prior to the lockout.

Dubas inherited Matthews, Marner, and 88

Rielly and Kadri on sweet heart contracts

Ton of cap space and he chose to use it all on JT

He didn't know a pandemic would screw the cap but he didn't pivot either.
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Also inherited a top 10 goalie with term.
 
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Ianturnedbull said:
Whatever happened to Pat Quinn?

I don't ever recall Ken Dryden making trades, drafting, and signing players.
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Pat Quinn freely gave up his GM portfolio to John Ferguson Jr. then a year later got canned by the man he hired.

Ken Dryden was the official GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for 2 years using Mike Smith as his daily operations man. It was during that time that Dryden lead the charge to sign Cujo despite Felix Potvin still being on the roster.
 
I used to defend dubas, not anymore. Risking your whole season on an often injured goalie while knowing you need playoff success to entice your Franchise center to resign, is proof dubas is off the rails. Its cup or bust this year, anything less and the entire management team as well as the coaching staff need to be sent packing.
 
Divine said:
Wait,

You think Murray is trash but the goalie he chased out of Pittsburgh still has life?

Goalies are a crapshoot. Pittsburgh and Vegas both chased Fleury out of town and now he's valuable. One good season and everyone's going to say Murray is a good goaltender, like Fleury now.

Dubas signed a goaltender coming off a .923 season the previous season and that goalie couldn't even clear waivers midway into his first season with the Leafs. Goalies fortunes can change quickly.
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sort of, Fluery was still good even in the year he was "chased out" of Pittsburgh with a .909. That's the major difference between the 2, one is consistent one is not.

I take consistency at the goalie position and I'm not sure if referencing Pitts decision is a good argument
 
Very curious to see who Dubas gets to back up MM. If it's one of the young guys with upside (Samsonov, Blackwood), then I am not so bummed about MM.

If it's some other injury dud, well it's going to be Dubas ushering AM out the door.
 
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