Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

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Didnt he say everyone or everybody?

Dubas is the only one on earth that traded him (for sake of trading him) because he thought he was a liability in the playoffs. That was clearly the vibe at that time of the trade. Dubas wanted guys to turn their back when a teammate got kneed in a playoff game, or when the goalie getting run over, and he was not addressing the real problem and looking for guys to help Naz, like a normal team.

Kyle, get to the front of the line and pucker up.
He said “For everyone that thought I was a liability in the playoffs you can kiss my ass.” Dubas traded him as "We had a need, and from our view as a management team, we owe it to our forward group and [Frederik] Andersen in net to round it out as best we can and put the best possible team on the ice, particularly with defensemen who can move the puck effectively and efficiently to our forward group,"
 
Thr caving criticism is odd to me, didnt he push Nylander further into negotiations than anyone in the cap era? Or has another team had a player sit the whole year?
I don't know of anyone who has sat out a year. But $7.5 is caving to me. And there really was little point in signing him when Dubas did. He missed 1/3 of the season, took him another 1/3 to get in shape, and the final 1/3 he was garbage. I suppose there was no way to know in advance he would be garbage for that final stretch, but the out of shape part could have been predicted.

If you're going to cave to Nylander, cave at the start of training camp, so you at least get the full 7 years out of him. Dubas caved and only got 6 years out of him, still paying him for 7 years.
 
Improvement? They had 3 straight second round losses up to this season.

Sakic’s been the GM for nearly a decade, losing in their round of the playoffs in his first year With a young core of Mackinnon, Landry, ROR, Duchene.. it took 3 years of bottoming out in the division before a change was made.

There’s definitely hypocrisy here

Sakic probably would have been fired for finishing last in 2015?? had he not been an Avalanche great. That bottoming out and the Duchene deal turned him from sad sack GM to the GM he is today. Maybe he sold his soul to the devil because he built one hell of a team. Hopefully he runs into cap hell soon because they could be the next Tampa.
 
I don't know of anyone who has sat out a year. But $7.5 is caving to me. And there really was little point in signing him when Dubas did. He missed 1/3 of the season, took him another 1/3 to get in shape, and the final 1/3 he was garbage. I suppose there was no way to know in advance he would be garbage for that final stretch, but the out of shape part could have been predicted.

If you're going to cave to Nylander, cave at the start of training camp, so you at least get the full 7 years out of him. Dubas caved and only got 6 years out of him, still paying him for 7 years.

They had just added JT, and the team looked amazing without him (yeah like they always do when it does not count in October and November) so they had little choice but to sign him rather than fully dig in. Too bad Willie was ass when he came back and was for most of that season.
 
They had just added JT, and the team looked amazing without him (yeah like they always do when it does not count in October and November) so they had little choice but to sign him rather than fully dig in. Too bad Willie was ass when he came back and was for most of that season.
I distinctly remember Willie standing motionless on the ice sucking for wind while the play went on around him. You're 22 years old for gods sake and you can't workout while holding out. Willie had a way of disappointing me in those days.
 
Par, no. They aren't that far away though either. Better coach and goaltending puts them much closer.

I'd really like to know how they'd stack up against the two teams I saw battle for every inch of ice last night. Only way to really know is to get past round #1 and they haven't. Until then all bets are off IMO.

I distinctly remember Willie standing motionless on the ice sucking for wind while the play went on around him. You're 22 years old for gods sake and you can't workout while holding out. Willie had a way of disappointing me in those days.

Ripped him every night he played like ass. Haven't since he figured it out but he still takes too many nights off for my liking. But when he is on, he is dynamic.
 
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Sakic probably would have been fired for finishing last in 2015?? had he not been an Avalanche great. That bottoming out and the Duchene deal turned him from sad sack GM to the GM he is today. Maybe he sold his soul to the devil because he built one hell of a team. Hopefully he runs into cap hell soon because they could be the next Tampa.

He learned from the ROR trade, which was like his Kadri trade, and got a haul for Duchene.

But bottoming out also got them Rantanen and Makar…
 
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Improvement? They had 3 straight second round losses up to this season.

Sakic’s been the GM for nearly a decade, losing in their round of the playoffs in his first year With a young core of Mackinnon, Landry, ROR, Duchene.. it took 3 years of bottoming out in the division before a change was made.

There’s definitely hypocrisy here
They have shown growth over the last 5 years while the Leafs have shown none. The Avs had enough room to be able to add the necessary pieces to put them over the top. The Leafs had enough room for Giordano and Blackwell. None of the Avs stars are making anywhere near what the top 3 Leafs are making. Sorry, I'd rether have Sakic.
 
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Ripped him every night he played like ass. Haven't since he figured it out but he still takes too many nights off for my liking. But when he is on, he is dynamic.
Yeah, 34 goals and 80 points though and that's playing with slow a** Tavares. He long left Ehlers in the dust as his comparable. I can't really complain too much. That one play where he pulled up was pretty inconsequential but the optics were terrible.
 
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I don't know of anyone who has sat out a year. But $7.5 is caving to me. And there really was little point in signing him when Dubas did. He missed 1/3 of the season, took him another 1/3 to get in shape, and the final 1/3 he was garbage. I suppose there was no way to know in advance he would be garbage for that final stretch, but the out of shape part could have been predicted.

If you're going to cave to Nylander, cave at the start of training camp, so you at least get the full 7 years out of him. Dubas caved and only got 6 years out of him, still paying him for 7 years.
Nothing suggests he caved though, that was reportedly his offer the whole time and it sounds like he stood firmer than most GMs who havent taken it to that point.
 
Nothing suggests he caved though, that was reportedly his offer the whole time and it sounds like he stood firmer than most GMs who havent taken it to that point.
If Willie was asking for even more, than he was even more in need of an attitude adjustment that sitting out the year might have helped him obtain.

What was he asking for 8? That's insane the guy was a 20 goal 60 point perimeter floater playing with Matthews. That's not much better than Hyman could do. It's really not that impressive.
 
It's almost like this team needed a President/GM combo who would de-emphasize the individual in favour of team goals. It's almost like this team needed a coach who the players might not particularly like but who would push them to be more substantial hardened pros on a team rather than individuals thinking about their next epic goal celebration.
 
If Willie was asking for even more, than he was even more in need of an attitude adjustment that sitting out the year might have helped him obtain.

What was he asking for 8? That's insane the guy was a 20 goal 60 point perimeter floater playing with Matthews. That's not much better than Hyman could do. It's really not that impressive.
Im not suggesting Nylander was reasonable at that time, but everything suggests the Leafs were willing to lose him that year if he didnt come down to their offer at the last minute.
 
First of all, I don't consider Tavares part of the core, never have and never will.
Do I believe in the big 3? Yes and No.
I believe in them a lot more than I believe in Dubas.
I think a competent GM doesn't cave to them on contracts.
Would we have the heart of Colorado? Probably not but we would have more heart without Dubas.
He's soft as a marshmallow and that flows down to the team.
So I absolutely don't believe in this core under Dubas, but under someone else, I think they could have brought a championship to Toronto.
You don’t pay non core guys 11 million.
At least I hope you don’t.
 
He said “For everyone that thought I was a liability in the playoffs you can kiss my ass.” Dubas traded him as "We had a need, and from our view as a management team, we owe it to our forward group and [Frederik] Andersen in net to round it out as best we can and put the best possible team on the ice, particularly with defensemen who can move the puck effectively and efficiently to our forward group,"
Do you think Kadri’s playoff suspension factored into the decision to pick him as the trade bait?
 
Do you think Kadri’s playoff suspension factored into the decision to pick him as the trade bait?
It was a bad trade because we didn’t get what we needed long term.
You can trade anyone as long as you get what you need to fit.

Added to the fact that our current core has issues with a pulse and bite, it hurts even more.
We needed a RHD, we didn’t get it.

We had JT, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri and needed a top flight D.
Nothing.
We still need it as well as a goalie and if JT is slowing down and needs to shift to the wing, we need a 2C. And some bite in the core. These are things lacking. You trade to get what you need from excess in one area.
 
Sakic probably would have been fired for finishing last in 2015?? had he not been an Avalanche great. That bottoming out and the Duchene deal turned him from sad sack GM to the GM he is today. Maybe he sold his soul to the devil because he built one hell of a team. Hopefully he runs into cap hell soon because they could be the next Tampa.

That bottoming out helped immensely, I don't think they win without Makar.

They have half a team of UFAs, and no goalie (theirs sucked anyway, so who cares), they have traded a lot of futures and their top prospects.

I think they go at it again once more next year, all in with what picks/prospects they have left before they have to resign Mac, Byram, and Newhook.

Looks like they have 25 million to sign a goalie, 1D (can be the #6), and an entire second and fourth line.

Notable players who need a new contract for them - Kuemper, Kadri, Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Nichuskin. That alone is likely over 25 million and they are still in need of a D and at least 2 more forwards.

Having said that, they are a good team, and good teams need to make tough decisions based on the cap.
 
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You don’t pay non core guys 11 million.
At least I hope you don’t.
I suppose he was core that first year he played for Toronto. He surprised me how well he played. I've never been a fan of his, but he was probably the best player on the team that year. I personally would never pay that much for a guy that skates as bad as he does. It's an absolute requirement for me that you're a good skater to be considered for that kind of money.
 
Im not suggesting Nylander was reasonable at that time, but everything suggests the Leafs were willing to lose him that year if he didnt come down to their offer at the last minute.
The number he settled for was more than he was worth, especially given the time missed. Willie agreeing to be overpaid instead of stupid overpaid was still a win for him although calling it a cave for Dubas at that point doesn't feel quite right. They had just traded for JT so were expecting a Cup run that year. Is possibly losing a year out of your window over $1M good business? I know current Dubas would have had a different approach, just not sure if anything other than trading the prick before the season started would have worked.

20-20 hindsight I wonder how the club would have played it differently knowing the guy was going to sit a third of the season. But for "the promise" I think he would have been traded. KD clearly was not expecting the holdout but had he known he might have even rescinded that kindness and told the Willie this is the number or you are on the move, because saying we won't trade you isn't a license to walk all over us. Being the guy's pal didn't pay off at negotiations any more than with the other two. Looking back today, calling it a cave by either side seems a bit too simplistic, because there was a lot of balls in play for the team. Although what made team Nylander think he was an $8M guy is beyond me and that was the poop in the soup right?.
 
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That bottoming out helped immensely, I don't think they win without Makar.

They have half a team of UFAs, and no goalie (theirs sucked anyway, so who cares), they have traded a lot of futures and their top prospects.

I think they go at it again once more next year, all in with what picks/prospects they have left before they have to resign Mac, Byram, and Newhook.

Looks like they have 25 million to sign a goalie, 1D (can be the #6), and an entire second and fourth line.

Notable players who need a new contract for them - Kuemper, Kadri, Lehkonen, Burakovsky, Nichuskin. That alone is likely over 25 million and they are still in need of a D and at least 2 more forwards.

Having said that, they are a good team, and good teams need to make tough decisions based on the cap.

To win the Cup with young Makar and Byram anchoring your D is incredible. What is scary is that both have not peaked.

They are going to lose Naz, As long as they keep their core of MacK, Landy, Ranta, Makar, Byram and a decent goalie, they should be able to fill in the rest and be a serious threat to win the SC because these guys now know what it takes to win and they have the eye of the tiger.
 
The number he settled for was more than he was worth, especially given the time missed. Willie agreeing to be overpaid instead of stupid overpaid was still a win for him although calling it a cave for Dubas at that point doesn't feel quite right. They had just traded for JT so were expecting a Cup run that year. Is possibly losing a year out of your window over $1M good business? I know current Dubas would have had a different approach, just not sure if anything other than trading the prick before the season started would have worked.

20-20 hindsight I wonder how the club would have played it differently knowing how this was going to play out. But for "the promise" I think he would have been traded. KD clearly was not expecting the holdout but had he known he might have even rescinded that kindness and told the Willie this is the number or you are on the move, because saying we won't trade you isn't a license to walk all over us. Being the guy's pal didn't pay off at negotiations any more than with the other two. Calling it a cave by either side seems a bit too simplistic although what made team Nylander think he was an $8M guy is beyond me.
I think he was overpaid for the cap hit signed, my benchmark was 6.5, but thats a different topic than whether our GM caved or not.

And at the end of the day, bickering about ~500k 4 years after the fact doesnt sound like a good time to me.
 
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To win the Cup with young Makar and Byram anchoring your D is incredible. What is scary is that both have not peaked.

They are going to lose Naz, As long as they keep their core of MacK, Landy, Ranta, Makar, Byram and a decent goalie, they should be able to fill in the rest and be a serious threat to win the SC because these guys now know what it takes to win and they have the eye of the tiger.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but many people said a few years ago move Nylander for a solid D.
So we sink a little 3 years ago until we rise stronger.
What if we had a Pesce and a 1st, ride out Marleau last year for the additional 1st, don’t trade 1sts for guys like Foligno when you haven’t won a round, traded Kapanen for the 1st, etc. We could be very different with our own additional impact draft picks. Count those additional picks up. We have none of that in the lineup.
 
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