Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Rob Brown]

the whole reason people are calling out the dubas-keefe duo is lack of playoff success and them patting themselves on the back like they accomplished something huge

If leafs won in playoffs we wouldn’t be having any of these discussions but here we are…..

You really think that they believe that they accomplished something 'huge'? I promise you that they are harder on themselves than you are on them.

You spent all series whining incessantly about the refs and now it's just whining about Dubas and co. You had no issues with them during the series - it was all the refs fault.

 

[cupcrazyman]

History of hockey trades by general manager Kyle Dubas - NHL Trade Tracker

nhltradetracker.com

Every trade made by Kyle Dubas as GM

 

[PromisedLand]

You really think that they believe that they accomplished something 'huge'? I promise you that they are harder on themselves than you are on them.

You spent all series whining incessantly about the refs and now it's just whining about Dubas and co. You had no issues with them during the series - it was all the refs fault.

Here is my post from before

Referee Bias against the Leafs - Something needs to be done

Reffing has been quite questionable in the last game and it seemsed like they were trying to bring the momentum back towards the Lightning. Hopefully the organization puts in a complaint to the league regarding the reffing bias against the Leafs. I think the league needs to bring in the...

hfboards.mandatory.com

Except for the Game 6 BS 5 on 3 call; I had no issues with reffing, you might be thinking of another poster.

Here is another example

Tampa defeats Toronto 4 games to 3

Its not an illegal pick. This isn’t the NBA. That was a super weak play. Read the nhl rules. I posted it earlier You can't be serious with this. Imagine how easy it would be to score goals if you could just tackle the defenders to create open ice. Goofy

hfboards.mandatory.com

It amazes me that to protect dubas and co. dubas fans will attack Leafs fans with made up stories instead of actually questioning the merits of the gm and coach. Its been 4 years of this GM and 3 years of this coach. Wake Up!

 

[Rob Brown]

Here is my post from before

Referee Bias against the Leafs - Something needs to be done

Reffing has been quite questionable in the last game and it seemsed like they were trying to bring the momentum back towards the Lightning. Hopefully the organization puts in a complaint to the league regarding the reffing bias against the Leafs. I think the league needs to bring in the...

hfboards.mandatory.com

Except for the Game 6 BS 5 on 3 call; I had no issues with reffing, you might be thinking of another poster.

Here is another example

Tampa defeats Toronto 4 games to 3

Its not an illegal pick. This isn’t the NBA. That was a super weak play. Read the nhl rules. I posted it earlier You can't be serious with this. Imagine how easy it would be to score goals if you could just tackle the defenders to create open ice. Goofy

hfboards.mandatory.com

It amazes me that to protect dubas and co. dubas fans will attack Leafs fans with made up stories instead of actually questioning the merits of the gm and coach. Its been 4 years of this GM and 3 years of this coach. Wake Up!

When did I say I was a Dubas fan? When did I attack you? All I said was that they are 100% more disappointed in themselves than you are in them. I don't think they are 'patting themselves on the back'. How am I 'protecting Dubas and co'? I promise you they don't care about my opinion nor will they ever read it.

And yeah, you had plenty of posts complaining about the refs. I'm not thinking of someone else.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Cause he's playing dudes from Latvia in a tournament where you don't fight. Hedman is a top 3 dman in the entire world and Sergachev is a prick to play against. Both TB dmen will slash you back.

You aren’t wrong. I just question why him and Mitch are so scared of getting slashed or hit. Auston at least seems to be coming around physicality wise but those other two need to stop taking shit and push back. Not some light sissy shove for appearances which they do already but actually mixing it up in a scrum (obviously not fighting but more than just hugging someone in a scuffle).

Nylander we know is jacked so him not wanting to get involved physically perplexes me. Marner is more vulnerable given his smaller stature but he only needs to look at guys like Gallagher, Marty St. Louis, hell even Kucherov to see that you don’t need to be 6’3 210 to be effective in that regard.

Nylander is definitely worse than Marner though in terms of chickening out. He really has no excuse. What’s the point of getting ripped if you’re just going to shy away from contact.

 

[ToneDog]

History of hockey trades by general manager Kyle Dubas - NHL Trade Tracker

nhltradetracker.com

Every trade made by Kyle Dubas as GM

 

[ToneDog]

You aren’t wrong. I just question why him and Mitch are so scared of getting slashed or hit. Auston at least seems to be coming around physicality wise but those other two need to stop taking shit and push back. Not some light sissy shove for appearances which they do already but actually mixing it up in a scrum (obviously not fighting but more than just hugging someone in a scuffle).

Nylander we know is jacked so him not wanting to get involved physically perplexes me. Marner is more vulnerable given his smaller stature but he only needs to look at guys like Gallagher, Marty St. Louis, hell even Kucherov to see that you don’t need to be 6’3 210 to be effective in that regard.

Nylander is definitely worse than Marner though in terms of chickening out. He really has no excuse. What’s the point of getting ripped if you’re just going to shy away from contact.

Nylander is a skilled player who shies away from some contact. No problem, let's help him out and put a tough guy out there on his line; Kerfoot.

Look what E Kane has done for McDavid.

 

[ACC1224]

How long is Kyle Dubas's rookie eligibility?

He’s no longer a rookie, IMO.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Kadri has ruined four playoffs series for his team. He is definition of F. Three suspensions and meltdown against Dallas. One hat trick doesn't change that.

The odd thing about Kadri and his suspensions are that this latest "accident" was way more egregious and caused a real injury but because of reasons...he is now a martyr who is being called a hero for withstanding all the abuse he is taking. Funny how nobody said any of these things when Debrusk was trying to knee him on purpose and he snapped.

He should have been suspended this time IMO and not the other 2 times against Boston. Figures...

Except now that he is in Colorado, he has done a complete turnaound with his demeanor and performance. That is on the coach and GM for sure. The fact that he has done that in Colorado means his bosses here weren't good enougn to rein him in.

Meh...he is going to win a big payday and go back to sleep in a year or 2. I hope Montreal pays through the nose and signs him to an 8yr anchor contract that cripples them in the future. Any guy who all of a sudden goes nuts points wise in his contract year (I am looking at you Skinner) compared to his previous years is a guy I want no part of.

 

[Shooter2x]

So who would you replace him with?

I'm asking because IMHO for the most part, our GM's have sucked for the last 50+ years. You can mock Dubas for "development years" and so on but all these GM's we had before had more experience than Dubas, some of them a lot more yet most of them (if not all) did a worse job than Dubas, some of them a lot worse.

I'm not sure, but I like Shanahan and hope he stays, so I do trust that he would have found someone good for us if he was put in the position / predicament to do so.

 

[Shooter2x]

View attachment 551831

Argh.

LOL.

Hocus pocus and suddenly Liljegren, who is better than Sandin, becomes a Dubas pick because he was a prospect under Dubas watch. As if Liljegren would bust if Dubas wasn't GM. Yeah, I don't think so. Liljegren is solid.

You know what would happen if Dubas wasn't GM? We wouldn't have Keefe as a coach, who BENCHED the non-Dubas pick Liljegren for "look mom Scooby Doo turned me into a NHL player" Justin f***ing Holl.


I'm still waiting to hear what the test criteria was.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He’s no longer a rookie, IMO.

Just acts like one

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not sure, but I like Shanahan and hope he stays, so I do trust that he would have found someone good for us if he was put in the position / predicament to do so.

If he finds someone good then good I guess. But if the players can't get it done, and Dubas is responsible because he put the team together, then by that logic, Shanahan is responsible for Dubas so if putting Dubas in charge was such a huge mistake, why would you trust him to hire the next guy?

 

[ShaneFalco]

If he finds someone good then good I guess. But if the players can't get it done, and Dubas is responsible because he put the team together, then by that logic, Shanahan is responsible for Dubas so if putting Dubas in charge was such a huge mistake, why would you trust him to hire the next guy?

Yup good point Shanny is letting this all happen and is satisfied. 8nyears with him now

 

[Shooter2x]

If he finds someone good then good I guess. But if the players can't get it done, and Dubas is responsible because he put the team together, then by that logic, Shanahan is responsible for Dubas so if putting Dubas in charge was such a huge mistake, why would you trust him to hire the next guy?

Dubas was a good signing. Shanahan won those sweepstakes. Almost every team wanted him.

Making him GM so early turned out to be a mistake in hindsight depending on who you ask but that doesn't mean the signing itself was bad. I would love if Dubas was assistant GM.

Lou was a respectable signing.

Shanahan only goes for the best / highly respected when he makes signings so regardless how you want to break it down or play logic games he hasn't done anything to lose my trust in a hypothetical world he had to sign an experienced GM (post-Lou) so Dubas can still bake some more.



*If you want it to be exact, then I can change it to this: Shanny is money when it comes to the initial signing. His promotion game is weak. In my scenario the initial signing is for an experienced GM, so it's money.

 

[Shooter2x]

Yup good point Shanny is letting this all happen and is satisfied. 8nyears with him now

The key here is Shanahan is in a position where he's forced to make new signings. In this hypothetical scenario I do trust him assembling the next team.

If he's tied to Dubas and Keefe that's irrelevant to what I'm saying. Shanahan is fully capable of getting us a new / good management team if he needed to / wanted to. The "want" is the current issue.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas was a good signing. Shanahan won those sweepstakes. Almost every team wanted him.

Making him GM so early turned out to be a mistake in hindsight depending on who you ask but that doesn't mean the signing itself was bad. I would love if Dubas was assistant GM.

Lou was a respectable signing.

Shanahan only goes for the best / highly respected when he makes signings so regardless how you want to break it down or play logic games he hasn't done anything to lose my trust in a hypothetical world he had to sign an experienced GM (post-Lou) so Dubas can still bake some more.



*If you want it to be exact, then I can change it to this: Shanny is money when it comes to the initial signing. His promotion game is weak. In my scenario the initial signing is for an experienced GM, so it's money.

Either you trust Shanahan's decision making ability, or you don't. And if you do and his decision is to let Dubas continue, then you should be good with that.

 

[ACC1224]

Just acts like one

He’s grown into it and has been better, IMO.
A more experienced man would have moved on from Keefe though.

 

[DarkKnight]

He’s grown into it and has been better, IMO.
A more experienced man would have moved on from Keefe though.

Agreed. Part of the problem here though, everyone is growing into their jobs while window years are being squandered. People argue Keefe was better this year too, and I agree, but again that’s the point. So cozy and a safe in Leafland, everyone growing and learning, while others win and move on. Next year…..

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed. Part of the problem here though, everyone is growing into their jobs while window years are being squandered. People argue Keefe was better this year too, and I agree, but again that’s the point. So cozy and a safe in Leafland, everyone growing and learning, while others win and move on. Next year…..

As a fan it’s certainly frustrating to see this all potentially slip away.

 

[ToneDog]

Yup good point Shanny is letting this all happen and is satisfied. 8nyears with him now

Shanny made his bed when he chose the kid over the dinosaur. I hope it works out but if it does not, the two will go down as two of the biggest failures in Leaf history. Imagine how they will be viewed if 34 wants out..

 

[Shooter2x]

Either you trust Shanahan's decision making ability, or you don't. And if you do and his decision is to let Dubas continue, then you should be good with that.

Bringing in someone externally for a position isn't necessarily the same as moving the pieces around you already have. No reason why I have to agree with everything Shanahan does.

Having to start interviews to find a best candidate out of all possible candidates for a position is not the same as scanning your current employees you're loyal towards and giving them promotions. You're a smart guy I don't think I need to elaborate why it's different.

Shanahan will get the job done if it's time to find someone fresh.

 

[Drytoast]

Kyle Dubass traded Kadri for Kerfoot.

That alone gives him an F on the test

And Barrie. Whom we all thought was going to help put us over the hump on defence. Jesus dude.

Kerfoot isn't a complete waste either. He's a solid 3C who can be placed anywhere up and down the line up depending on who is injured. Kadri...and I want you to bank on this; Is NOT going to put up the numbers he is in Colorado. Depending on where he goes and who is coaching.

I say that being extremely happy for Kadri.

 

[ToneDog]

As a fan it’s certainly frustrating to see this all potentially slip away.

Look at all the talent he has dumped in order to pay 4 guys who have not gotten it done in 4 years together. COVID crippled the cap but how do you give Tavares 11 knowing the 3 amigos were coming up for new deals and were not going to leave a penny on the table and you had Z and Marleau's contracts to deal with ?? The only test he has passed in getting his G2 permit.

 

[DueDiligence]

The claim that Dubas has improved the team has less to do with Dubas' additions and more to do with expected increase in the core's ability to produce i.e. Matthews, Marner and Nylander

This is exactly the case. The Leafs success is all about the growth of Matthews and Marner to great players and Nylander to pretty darn good. Dubas has made depth and defense a little better and goaltending is worse. And the argument could be made that coaching is worse.