Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[keonsbitterness]

I just wish Lou stayed for an extra year or 2 to get better contracts for the kids and not sign JT. Had that happened and he passed the reigns over to Dubas..I would have been ok with it.

Could have been better, but it could have been worse. If I had to bet, I'd bet on the same.

He tried to sign Tavares though...

And didn't he offer more money?

8 x 11 according to reports.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Major challenges Dubas created himself. Now it's a #1 and possibly #2 goalie, and reconstructing the 3rd and 4th lines

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just wish Lou stayed for an extra year or 2 to get better contracts for the kids and not sign JT. Had that happened and he passed the reigns over to Dubas..I would have been ok with it.

What makes you think Lou wouldn't have signed JT? He tried so sign him when he took the NYI job so not getting this at all.

 

[Trapper]

What makes you think Lou wouldn't have signed JT? He tried so sign him when he took the NYI job so not getting this at all.

I don’t think their is anything wrong with either GM trying to sign Tavares. The difference is what are you willing to pay? The situation in NY was different than Toronto. Dubas knew he had 3 contracts that would be influenced by the signing of 1. He also knew he had the Marleau contract on the books.
That’s where Dubas went overboard IMO. I would have offered Tavares 9.1 max. His number and a bar. You knew Matthews was getting double digits. Absolutely knew it. I would have cost controlled the other 3. Only 1 double digit salary. By the sounds JT wanted Toronto which puts the ball in your court. Do you want to win? Or just get paid?

 

[Brobust]

I just wish Lou stayed for an extra year or 2 to get better contracts for the kids and not sign JT. Had that happened and he passed the reigns over to Dubas..I would have been ok with it.

Lou would have signed JT, traded Nylander and signed Marner+Matthews to bridge contracts.

And we'd be sitting here contemplating how much does Matthews get after his 60 goal season and how much does Mitch get after his 4th straight season of 90+ point pace production.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think their is anything wrong with either GM trying to sign Tavares. The difference is what are you willing to pay? The situation in NY was different than Toronto. Dubas knew he had 3 contracts that would be influenced by the signing of 1. He also knew he had the Marleau contract on the books.
That’s where Dubas went overboard IMO. I would have offered Tavares 9.1 max. His number and a bar. You knew Matthews was getting double digits. Absolutely knew it. I would have cost controlled the other 3. Only 1 double digit salary. By the sounds JT wanted Toronto which puts the ball in your court. Do you want to win? Or just get paid?

Do we have the knowledge that Lou was standing firm at less than double digits? News to me, I always assumed he was willing to pay what we paid him if not more.

Lou's also signed a few players to some really dumb contracts since he took over there, signed a few bad deals when he was our GM as well. That doesn't make me think he'd take a much harder line with their captain and best player.

 

[Mess]

What makes you think Lou wouldn't have signed JT? He tried so sign him when he took the NYI job so not getting this at all.

Sign as UFA or Re-Sign as the teams best player or lose him for nothing to free agency?

NYI drafted JT #1OA so shouldn't any GM attempt to retain their best and franchise player? The CBA is written and designed that your own team can hand out an extra year from 7 to 8 to keep their own and also lower the AAV averaged across more term.

Teams re-signing their own drafted and developed player is common practice, going out and signing one as UFA to the highest AAV ever handed out in the Salary Cap World is a completely different thing.

 

[ACC1224]

Sign as UFA or Re-Sign as the teams best player or lose him for nothing to free agency?

NYI drafted JT #1OA so shouldn't any GM attempt to retain their best and franchise player?

Teams re-signing their own drafted and developed player is common practice, going out and signing one as UFA to the highest AAV ever handed out in the Salary Cap World is a completely different thing.

Exactly.

 

[Sypher04]

Sign as UFA or Re-Sign as the teams best player or lose him for nothing to free agency?

NYI drafted JT #1OA so shouldn't any GM attempt to retain their best and franchise player? The CBA is written and designed that your own team can hand out an extra year from 7 to 8 to keep their own and also lower the AAV averaged across more term.

Teams re-signing their own drafted and developed player is common practice, going out and signing one as UFA to the highest AAV ever handed out in the Salary Cap World is a completely different thing.

Every single GM in Dubas’ position does exactly what he did. Players of Tavares ilk simply don’t get to free agency historically and he wanted to play here and took less than offered elsewhere to do so.

 

[Trapper]

Do we have the knowledge that Lou was standing firm at less than double digits? News to me, I always assumed he was willing to pay what we paid him if not more.

Lou's also signed a few players to some really dumb contracts since he took over there, signed a few bad deals when he was our GM as well. That doesn't make me think he'd take a much harder line with their captain and best player.

I don’t know what Lou was will to offer. We only heard the San Jose 13 mil rumours true or not.
The point is every GM makes good and bad moves. Every GM makes dumb mistakes. Many times around here the mind set is everyone but us. Failure to win a round 4 times does not grant saviour status or absolution. The bottom line is the GMs that have won and the GMs that haven’t. So far, Dubas is middle of the pack, not some Demi-god. And even then, there comes a point when a new person is needed if a team just keeps failing. Dubas today is much closer to replacement than statue. Burke was like Dubas in Vancouver, won in Anaheim, couldn’t do a thing here. Change happens. Sometimes it has too.

 

[Sypher04]

I don’t think their is anything wrong with either GM trying to sign Tavares. The difference is what are you willing to pay? The situation in NY was different than Toronto. Dubas knew he had 3 contracts that would be influenced by the signing of 1. He also knew he had the Marleau contract on the books.
That’s where Dubas went overboard IMO. I would have offered Tavares 9.1 max. His number and a bar. You knew Matthews was getting double digits. Absolutely knew it. I would have cost controlled the other 3. Only 1 double digit salary. By the sounds JT wanted Toronto which puts the ball in your court. Do you want to win? Or just get paid?

For the billionth time, Tavares’ deal as a decade long vet and UFA had precisely no bearing on what Matthews, Marner and Nylander signed for coming off their ELCs. You could maybe marginally argue Marner because he played with Tavares his final ELC year and put up huge numbers, but that’s it. Tavares was in no way a comparable for any of the three of them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Teams re-signing their own drafted and developed player is common practice, going out and signing one as UFA to the highest AAV ever handed out in the Salary Cap World is a completely different thing.

1. It's not the highest AAV ever handed out in the Salary Cap era, and it's not remotely close to the highest cap hit percentage, which is infinitely more relevant than absolute value.
2. Either the player is signed through those ages or not. Whether or not he was on the team previously is irrelevant. Lou showed a strong interest in pursuing UFA Tavares for his team, and offered a bigger contract from a team with less financial resources. It's most reasonable to think he would have attempted to sign him if he remained with Toronto. Whether he would have screwed that up like the Stamkos one, who knows.

 

[Trapper]

For the billionth time, Tavares’ deal as a decade long vet and UFA had precisely no bearing on what Matthews, Marner and Nylander signed for coming off their ELCs. You could maybe marginally argue Marner because he played with Tavares his final ELC year and put up huge numbers, but that’s it. Tavares was in no way a comparable for any of the three of them.

Of course it was. Don’t fool yourself. That stuff went out the window last generation. Years of earning your salary vs. todays youth is different. If it wasn’t, neither Matthews or Marner should be making equal to/more than Tavares.

 

[Dekes For Days]

For the billionth time, Tavares’ deal as a decade long vet and UFA had precisely no bearing on what Matthews, Marner and Nylander signed for coming off their ELCs. You could maybe marginally argue Marner because he played with Tavares his final ELC year and put up huge numbers, but that’s it. Tavares was in no way a comparable for any of the three of them.

It's amazing that some people still don't understand this. UFA contracts are not comparables for post-ELC contracts, and they never have been.

 

[egd27]

So you think Holland is a good GM? Posting a pic from the 90s requires me to guess what you mean, he has none of those pics from recent years.

I had to make a lot of assumptions based on your non-response, feel free to clarify your position.

I answered your question if people thought Holland is a good GM by posting a picture of him holding one of his 3 Stanley Cups as a GM. What assumptions could you have possibly made other than I thought he is a good GM?

 

[LeafGrief]

There was nothing wrong with signing Tavares. 90%+ of the fanbase LOVED it. It's not working out the way we want it to, but hindsight is not how you evaluate someone's decision making process. Dubas is judged based on what he does moving forward. Because it is now apparent that the big4 experiment isn't working, what he does to change it or stick with it is what he will be judged on.

Also wtf is Lou doing in this thread? He'd have gotten Marner signed at 8.5m sure, but we'd have given Thornton 4x4 and have Parise instead of Bunting, so I don't know if that's actually better.

 

[Racer88]

Not sure what exactly Shanahan's duties are but as far as things he does that impact the product on ice, hiring the GM I'd guess is well over 90% of it.

He hired Lou, and then he replaced him with Dubas. And as a fan who only cares about the on ice product, I would judge him on those 2 hires, period.


You mean like when he traded away our top picks and prospects at the TDL in a desperate attempt to "keep his job" like many predicted he would do?

I’m guessing a big part of his job is managing the corporate sponsors.

There was nothing wrong with signing Tavares. 90%+ of the fanbase LOVED it. It's not working out the way we want it to, but hindsight is not how you evaluate someone's decision making process. Dubas is judged based on what he does moving forward. Because it is now apparent that the big4 experiment isn't working, what he does to change it or stick with it is what he will be judged on.

Also wtf is Lou doing in this thread? He'd have gotten Marner signed at 8.5m sure, but we'd have given Thornton 4x4 and have Parise instead of Bunting, so I don't know if that's actually better.

Many of us thought tavares coming here was a great idea but I doubt any of us were thrilled with the massive cap hit and the NM/NT contract.

 

[Racer88]

It's amazing that some people still don't understand this. UFA contracts are not comparables for post-ELC contracts, and they never have been.

They are when your GM’s negotiating skills are a weak as wet paper towel………and I’m not talking about the good bounty paper towel.

 

[LeafGrief]

I’m guessing a big part of his job is managing the corporate sponsors.


Many of us thought tavares coming here was a great idea but I doubt any of us were thrilled with the massive cap hit and the NM/NT contract.

Are you kidding? We were all thrilled. We gloated endlessly that SJ had offered 13m and JT had turned it down to come here. 11m was a completely reasonable deal for a UFA top10c in the league. He's not the same player today and that really sucks, but JT was an absolute coup at the time. It's wild seeing people dunk on it today like they knew all along. It's a disappointment and I wish we were okay with admitting that.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Are you kidding? We were all thrilled. We gloated endlessly that SJ had offered 13m and JT had turned it down to come here. 11m was a completely reasonable deal for a UFA top10c in the league. He's not the same player today and that really sucks, but JT was an absolute coup at the time. It's wild seeing people dunk on it today like they knew all along. It's a disappointment and I wish we were okay with admitting that.

Yup loved the signing at the time. Thought it would make us contenders. Times changed, we still aren't, but Dubas hasn't been willing to look a the cap allocation and make adjustments. In his own words he's staked his career on the core 4.
I also seem to recall Dubas meeting with the three amigos before signing JT, and they were all on board. Except when it came to their own contracts

 

[Drytoast]

So your boy gave 11 mil to two players that don't deserve it.

Thanks for proving my point Dekes

Lou pissed Marner off back when he was owed bonus money and it not given to him. So Marner made us pay when he became RFA.

Blame Lou for being a dick

 

[ACC1224]

For the billionth time, Tavares’ deal as a decade long vet and UFA had precisely no bearing on what Matthews, Marner and Nylander signed for coming off their ELCs. You could maybe marginally argue Marner because he played with Tavares his final ELC year and put up huge numbers, but that’s it. Tavares was in no way a comparable for any of the three of them.

It very much had a bearing. There is no reason to think players wouldn't compare themselves to like players, especially on their own team. Silly to think they wouldn't.

 

[The Masters]

It very much had a bearing. There is no reason to think players wouldn't compare themselves to like players, especially on their own team. Silly to think they wouldn't.

that plus our bottom 6 took a massive hit
dubas running out house leaguers for his bottom 6 cuz he has no money

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t know what Lou was will to offer. We only heard the San Jose 13 mil rumours true or not.
The point is every GM makes good and bad moves. Every GM makes dumb mistakes. Many times around here the mind set is everyone but us. Failure to win a round 4 times does not grant saviour status or absolution. The bottom line is the GMs that have won and the GMs that haven’t. So far, Dubas is middle of the pack, not some Demi-god. And even then, there comes a point when a new person is needed if a team just keeps failing. Dubas today is much closer to replacement than statue. Burke was like Dubas in Vancouver, won in Anaheim, couldn’t do a thing here. Change happens. Sometimes it has too.

Sure, I imagine there are exactly 2 posters here (on my ignore list) who think Dubas is a demi-god, not more than that.

Then there are many who think he's done some good and some bad, he's not the best GM in the world but he's not the worst either.

Then there seem to be a lot of people who think he is the worst GM in history, their numbers have multiplied exponentially over the last couple of weeks, not sure why.

 

[Trapper]

Sure, I imagine there are exactly 2 posters here (on my ignore list) who think Dubas is a demi-god, not more than that.

Then there are many who think he's done some good and some bad, he's not the best GM in the world but he's not the worst either.

Then there seem to be a lot of people who think he is the worst GM in history, their numbers have multiplied exponentially over the last couple of weeks, not sure why.

Lol around here it’s probably best to take the doom post and the rose colour post and park yourself in the middle. That’s the best odds for being right.