Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

He was put in charge at a tough time where he had to sign his star rfa's. The person he replaced which we were told was a major mistake had the chance to sign Nylander the summer before but decided the priority was near retirement Marleau at 6.5. He also had to improve the D core which again neither Burke, now looking for a new job.... again in Nonis, and Lou never could. He was able to sign his rfa's at higher amounts than expected which should be on Lou because he's shown here and NY he lets agents run over him. He improved the D core and pretty much revamped the entire D core except for Rielly. Sandin he drafted along with Dubas's development system made Holl into an NHL player. Liljegren was drafted by Lou but his development was in Dubas's system so thats a Dubas piece really.
Covid ruined some plans but he has done a great job adding pieces under a flat cap.

He just needs playoff success but the lack there of isn't on him. He has improved the team in difficult circimstances from Covid to cleaning up mistakes from other GM's. He inherited a team with young stars who needed new deals and a flawed up and coming team and done great things with it.

Argh.

 

[Sypher04]

I think Dubas has done a good job overall in his tenure here. At times he gets more crap than deserved, and at others he gets more praise than deserved. I think he has improved as he’s been here, and there was definitely some learning on the job that took place early on that objectively isn’t great. I’m pretty comfortable with where Dubas is at today though and I think changing course now could just as easily be detrimental as it could move us forward.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think Dubas has done a good job overall in his tenure here. At times he gets more crap than deserved, and at others he gets more praise than deserved. I think he has improved as he’s been here, and there was definitely some learning on the job that took place early on that objectively isn’t great. I’m pretty comfortable with where Dubas is at today though and I think changing course now could just as easily be detrimental as it could move us forward.

That's pretty much where I'm at. The David Kampf signing was the first indication to me that he had finally learned the value of a real role-player, which I believed was his biggest downfall until now. We'll see this summed if he truly did figure it out, or if Kampf was just a fluke.

 

[myleafs]

Did you happen to catch the following 2 games?
If you did, you know the exact 3 reasons for the losses:

Price to get the games into Overtime.
Dermott with a terrible giveaway leading to a goal in overtime
A bad goal scored on Campbell to lose the 2nd overtime game


It's hard to blame the GM when a player coughs up the puck in OT, and when your goalie lets in a soft goal in another overtime.

Game 7 was the bad one of the series.

However, the team doesn't need games 5, 6, 7 if they win game 1. Although they weren't outplayed in game 1, it was the game that Price had the least effect on.


I'm not sure if people actually watch the games, but just peruse the box scores the next day, with some of the comments I thrown around.

geez, that wasnt condescending at all...lol What I see with your response is a lot of only if, ands and buts. Excuses. Did our big boys show up when it mattered? no....thats why we lost imo. The gm is responsible for the team assembled and if some of those players you mention cough it up or the goalie lets in a softie the buck stops with the guy who payed them to be in that position. Insult away if thats all you got.

 

[phillipmike]

Will Edmonton win more playoff games this year than the nine the Leafs have under Dubas?

Edmonton failed their last few seasons and couldnt get out of the first round too. Now they are one game away from a conference final with these three players being their biggest acquisitions in terms of cap hit;
-Tyson Barrie
-Zach Hyman
-Cody Ceci

Dubas has made some very good moves like Brodie, Campbell, Bunting, Giordano and getting rid of the Zaitsev deal.

But he has let talent walk or moved countless players that flourished the moment they leave and in most cases have career years/stints;
-Nick Ritiche
-Zach Hyman
-Fredrik Andersen
-Jared McCann
-Travis Boyd
-Alex Barabanov
-Trevor Moore
-Mason Marchment
-Evan Rodrigues
-Tyson Barrie
-Cody Ceci
-Kasperi Kapanen
-Nazem Kadri
-Sean Durzi
-Tyler Ennis
-Curtis McElhinney

I count at least 8 guys here that i would take on my team over what we have; Kadri, Freddy, Hyman, McCann, Moore, Marchment, Durzi, and Barabanov. Heck, i might even take the Barrie and Ceci signings over Muzzin at this point.

And the players that havent done so well still would be an upgrade on the players that he brought in this season.
-Andres Johnsson
-Carl Grundstrom
-Travis Dermott

I didnt name Connor Brown because he was used to move Zaitsev but he is another player. You got rid of the Zaitsev anchor only to do the same with Muzzin.

The only players that he let walk that didnt get better were past their prime anyways - and shouldnt have been on the team to begin with;
-Nick Foligno
-Joe Thornton

And the worst thing is he trade a 1st plus for Foligno and then was hot on his pursuit to double down on that error by attempting to re-sign him.

In 4 years id say he made 4-5 impact moves in Brodie, Campbell, Bunting, getting rid of Zaitsev and maybe Giordano.

Its easy to point to the 4-5 impact players you brought in but when you compare it to the 4-5 mistakes (Marleau trade, Muzzin extension, Mrazek signing, Kadri trade, RFA contracts) he made and the 10+ better players he let go or traded.

This is a very poor body of work.

 

[Riellyfan04]

If the players won’t or can’t get it done then he needs to start changing them

Who would you change genius??? Lol

 

[Sypher04]

A huge part of it is that a lot of these posters see themselves in Dubas. He didn’t play hockey at a high level, so he doesn’t really understand the intricacies of the game. He uses analytics to understand what’s happening on the ice. It’s human nature to gravitate towards others you identify with.

There are a few here that are so invested in Dubas that I wonder if they actually believe if a non-hockey guy can succeed, then it will open up doors for HFboard posters to interview for the next GM job.

I like Dubas, but I also definitely have my gripes. This however seems like a bit of a mischaracterization of him to me. Every team uses analytics to understand what is happening on the ice - Dubas has been very clear however from before he was even hired by Toronto they are just a tool he uses. The fan and media portrayal of him just being a stat nerd doesn’t line up with most of the things he’s said at talks or his actual body of work as an NHL GM. Also calling him a non-hockey guy feels pretty off-base. He started out as like a 10 year old working as a stick boy for the greyhounds, worked in a variety of other positions with the team including as a scout, until he eventually graduated university and got the GM job. He’s also a certified player agent by the NHLPA.

I also reject the notion that, you need to have played at a high level to understand the intricacies of the game. And whatever helpful or important player only insights there may be Dubas is surrounded by people who have lived those.

 

[Dreakmur]

I like Dubas, but I also definitely have my gripes. This however seems like a bit of a mischaracterization of him to me. Every team uses analytics to understand what is happening on the ice - Dubas has been very clear however from before he was even hired by Toronto they are just a tool he uses. The fan and media portrayal of him just being a stat nerd doesn’t line up with most of the things he’s said at talks or his actual body of work as an NHL GM. Also calling him a non-hockey guy is pretty off-base. He started out as like a 10 year old working as a stick boy for the greyhounds, worked in a variety of other positions with the team including as a scout, until he eventually graduated university and got the GM job. He’s also a certified player agent by the NHLPA.

Until recently, his team-building has indicated that he used 100% analytics. The Simmonds signing showed that he figured out the analytics didn't tell the whole store, but he still didn't understand why. The Kampf one is different. I hope that's a sign of things to come.

It's less that he's not actually a hockey guy and more that the posters are and they project that train onto him.

I also reject the notion that, you need to have played at a high level to understand the intricacies of the game. And whatever helpful or important player only insights there may be Dubas is surrounded by people who have lived those.

You don't need to have played at a high level to understand, but it's a lot harder to learn.

 

[Racer88]

Who would you change genius??? Lol

I’m not even sure why I’m responding to you but here goes..
First off I’m a fan not the GM so I have no way of knowing who is available or could be moved but that doesn’t mean that I can’t see that changes absolutely don’t need to be made. The first problem is Dubas has locked up this group in at way to much money. If it was even possible I would move Tavares. However thanks to Dubas that is not likely to happen. Second option and probably only option is to move out Willy and try to get players willing to give it everything they got.
Tampa’s players blocked every shot they could while our guys did not.
Even Morgan Reilly is soft and uncommitted way to often.

 

[Koolboss]

Huh, he has done some good but way too many f$%$%$%kups

 

[ShaneFalco]

Edmonton failed their last few seasons and couldnt get out of the first round too. Now they are one game away from a conference final with these three players being their biggest acquisitions in terms of cap hit;
-Tyson Barrie
-Zach Hyman
-Cody Ceci

Dubas has made some very good moves like Brodie, Campbell, Bunting, Giordano and getting rid of the Zaitsev deal.

But he has let talent walk or moved countless players that flourished the moment they leave and in most cases have career years/stints;
-Nick Ritiche
-Zach Hyman
-Fredrik Andersen
-Jared McCann
-Travis Boyd
-Alex Barabanov
-Trevor Moore
-Mason Marchment
-Evan Rodrigues
-Tyson Barrie
-Cody Ceci
-Kasperi Kapanen
-Nazem Kadri
-Sean Durzi
-Tyler Ennis
-Curtis McElhinney

I count at least 8 guys here that i would take on my team over what we have; Kadri, Freddy, Hyman, McCann, Moore, Marchment, Durzi, and Barabanov. Heck, i might even take the Barrie and Ceci signings over Muzzin at this point.

And the players that havent done so well still would be an upgrade on the players that he brought in this season.
-Andres Johnsson
-Carl Grundstrom
-Travis Dermott

I didnt name Connor Brown because he was used to move Zaitsev but he is another player. You got rid of the Zaitsev anchor only to do the same with Muzzin.

The only players that he let walk that didnt get better were past their prime anyways - and shouldnt have been on the team to begin with;
-Nick Foligno
-Joe Thornton

And the worst thing is he trade a 1st plus for Foligno and then was hot on his pursuit to double down on that error by attempting to re-sign him.

In 4 years id say he made 4-5 impact moves in Brodie, Campbell, Bunting, getting rid of Zaitsev and maybe Giordano.

Its easy to point to the 4-5 impact players you brought in but when you compare it to the 4-5 mistakes (Marleau trade, Muzzin extension, Mrazek signing, Kadri trade, RFA contracts) he made and the 10+ better players he let go or traded.

This is a very poor body of work.

As the results indicate. Hang your regular season banner - with the guys we have they can breeze through the regular season and they did that without him. He just has no idea how to get them to the next step so it's a constant revolving door of players. And he backs a buddy buddy coach who also, has no clue how to get over the hump in the playoffs.
But to some "he has done some good things" is enough

 

[DraiInSeiderKuch]

He was put in charge at a tough time where he had to sign his star rfa's. The person he replaced which we were told was a major mistake had the chance to sign Nylander the summer before but decided the priority was near retirement Marleau at 6.5. He also had to improve the D core which again neither Burke, now looking for a new job.... again in Nonis, and Lou never could. He was able to sign his rfa's at higher amounts than expected which should be on Lou because he's shown here and NY he lets agents run over him. He improved the D core and pretty much revamped the entire D core except for Rielly. Sandin he drafted along with Dubas's development system made Holl into an NHL player. Liljegren was drafted by Lou but his development was in Dubas's system so thats a Dubas piece really.
Covid ruined some plans but he has done a great job adding pieces under a flat cap.

He just needs playoff success but the lack there of isn't on him. He has improved the team in difficult circimstances from Covid to cleaning up mistakes from other GM's. He inherited a team with young stars who needed new deals and a flawed up and coming team and done great things with it.

Lol, he is a below average gm that has overpaid at every single position. He has built an anti-playoffs team

 

[Nineteen67]

This will make you vomit in your mouth a little. He couldn’t do that to Sergachev or Hedman when he had them lined up. And why is he playing hockey shirtless?

 

[showtime8]

This will make you vomit in your mouth a little. He couldn’t do that to Sergachev or Hedman when he had them lined up. And why is playing hockey shirtless?

Cause he's playing dudes from Latvia in a tournament where you don't fight. Hedman is a top 3 dman in the entire world and Sergachev is a prick to play against. Both TB dmen will slash you back.

 

[Atomos2]

This is delusion at its finest. You don't pass a test when you get the same damn results as your predecessor. Dubas needs to win a f***ing round.

His legacy is first round failure. That's how he'll be remembered.

 

[Racer88]

the whole reason people are calling out the dubas-keefe duo is lack of playoff success and them patting themselves on the back like they accomplished something huge

If leafs won in playoffs we wouldn’t be having any of these discussions but here we are…..

Plus add in Shanny who is doing nothing to help this team move forward. I suspect he is just in it for the pay day

 

[ShaneFalco]

Plus add in Shanny who is doing nothing to help this team move forward. I suspect he is just in it for the pay day

Shanahan asks for players to consider hometown discount
Dubas "We can and we will"
Dubas shortly after gets taken to the cleaners
It all went downhill from there complacency, lack of effort, lack of "killer instinct", "demons", not sticking up for eachother..... a certain player refusing to play the way they want on the PP, players calling the lack of playoff effort out

Fast forward - we lost and we tried. That's good enough - rock on Dubas!

 

[ToneDog]

Shanahan asks for players to consider hometown discount
Dubas "We can and we will"
Dubas shortly after gets taken to the cleaners
It all went downhill from there complacency, lack of effort, lack of "killer instinct", "demons", not sticking up for eachother..... a certain player refusing to play the way they want on the PP, players calling the lack of playoff effort out

Fast forward - we lost and we tried. That's good enough - rock on Dubas!

Meanwhile Trotz is out there and he sticks with his buddy who has been schooled 3 straight years and is glad we gained some respect in the handshake line. You be you Kyle.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We can just no longer waste the prime years of our superstar core on the development years of a GM who still needs to go learn what it takes to win in the playoffs. It's as simple as that.

*In hindsight it would have been better to let Dubas continue to bake as assistant GM because I do believe the day will come he figures it out. But the odds of us having a core of matthews-marner-nylander-tavares again in our lifetime is close to 0%, so Dubas eventually figuring it out CANNOT be prioritized.

So who would you replace him with?

I'm asking because IMHO for the most part, our GM's have sucked for the last 50+ years. You can mock Dubas for "development years" and so on but all these GM's we had before had more experience than Dubas, some of them a lot more yet most of them (if not all) did a worse job than Dubas, some of them a lot worse.

 

[NinjaKick]

So who would you replace him with?

Annie Wilkes

she wouldn't put up with this bs

 

[notbias]

I’m not even sure why I’m responding to you but here goes..
First off I’m a fan not the GM so I have no way of knowing who is available or could be moved but that doesn’t mean that I can’t see that changes absolutely don’t need to be made. The first problem is Dubas has locked up this group in at way to much money. If it was even possible I would move Tavares. However thanks to Dubas that is not likely to happen. Second option and probably only option is to move out Willy and try to get players willing to give it everything they got.
Tampa’s players blocked every shot they could while our guys did not.
Even Morgan Reilly is soft and uncommitted way to often.

We blocked more shots than Tampa and also took more shots...

 

[cupcrazyman]

Same playoff result (AGAIN) & some people want us to give Dubas a pat on the back ?

 

[fahad203]

Same playoff result (AGAIN) & some people want us to give Dubas a pat on the back ?

A hug. A massive group hug with a kiss on the forehead

#suchalikeableguy #supremeleader

 

[PromisedLand]

Huh, he has done some good but way too many f$%$%$%kups

IMO it depends on how we are quantifying "good"

the playoff results are the same as pre dubas as it is post dubas.

Team made the playoffs before dubas and after dubas as gm

Team had the best regular season before dubas and after dubas as gm

what has dubas really done that can be quantified as "good"? I mean really....

Leafs team under Lou that had a 105 point season had a d-core of:

Under Babcock with terrible D-core we had 2 D-men with 50+ point season

The claim that some people have is that Dubas apparently significantly improved the Leafs D; ok then.... with this so called improved D-core Leafs had 115 point season (a 10 point increase) and the same result in the playoffs (i.e. Game 7 loss and 1st round exit).

The claim that Dubas has improved the team has less to do with Dubas' additions and more to do with expected increase in the core's ability to produce i.e. Matthews, Marner and Nylander

If we really try to quantify results based on facts and logic Dubas actually looks really bad such that he could not even support the natural improvement that majority of hockey players see after being drafted in the 1st round

On top of that his D acquisions i.e. Muzzin, etc... have yileded the same results i.e. first round exits. It is even more shameful for Dubas IMO that he could not support his improving core's numbers by surrounding them with better depth/dcore to help them.


Worst of all (IMHO) he protected the 2 dollar d-man like Holl who SUCKS and cost us Game 6 OT.

If we really look at the natural curve of expected improvements from Core of the Leafs after being drafted, Dubas not able to push this team further as a GM just goes on to show how big of a failure he is. Not even looking at inflated contracts, no assets in cupbooard and next to non capspace.

Just general observation (without even looking at other BS) that he inherited a core that has improved every year in regular season since been drafted, and this GM still has not been able to build a team around them that could lead to improved playoff results except 1st round exits goes on to show how bad of a GM he is.

 

[cupcrazyman]

A hug. A massive group hug with a kiss on the forehead

#suchalikeableguy #supremeleader

LOL !