Derek Dorsett

[WTG]

This season.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

He played significant minutes with players that were better with him than without just last season.

But look at his past season.

I could very well say that his regular season with the Rangers is a outlier. Because frankly it is.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2008-15&sit=5v5

Faced really weak QoC too

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

 

[Scurr]

But look at his past season.

I could very well say that his regular season with the Rangers is a outlier. Because frankly it is.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2008-15&sit=5v5

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2011-12&sit=5v5
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2010-11&sit=5v5

It's not just last season. Like I said, Dorsett has not historically been an anchor. In every one of those years he has played significant minutes with players that are as good or better with him. In cases where he's not, the gap is a lot closer. His season with the Canucks is the outlier.

Faced really weak QoC too

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/23/the-importance-of-quality-of-competition

QoT has a much bigger affect.

 

[WTG]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2012-13&sit=5v5
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2011-12&sit=5v5
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=997&withagainst=true&season=2010-11&sit=5v5

It's not just last season. Like I said, Dorsett has not historically been an anchor. In every one of those years he has played significant minutes with players that are as good or better with him. In cases where he's not, the gap is a lot closer. His season with the Canucks is the outlier.

But still the majority of his teammates have better possession stats away from Dorsett.

This is the case throughout his career.

 

[Scurr]

But still the majority of his teammates have better possession stats away from Dorsett.

This is the case throughout his career.

Isn't that what it really means to be a 4th liner?

I'm not arguing for good… I'm arguing against anchor.

 

[DL44]

Derek Dorsett comparables from the past season...


Same Tier of scoring:
D. Brown, Spaling, Moore, Shaw, Beagle, King, McGuinn, Roussel, McClement
Legwand, Semin, Laich, Richards, Stajan, Smith-Pelly, Beck.

Same tier of total ice time:
Campbell, Bickell, Stajan, Fontaine, Beck, Weise, Haula, Gaustead, Downie

 

[pitseleh]

I'm not arguing Dorsett is a good player, I just don't think he's the anchor some portray. I feel like there would be more of an effort to increase the sample size and figure the player out if he were more well liked. This style of player and the intellectual crowd aren't a good fit, though.

I don't think Dorsett is an anchor the same way Sestito is an anchor, but I'd say he is an average-ish fourth liner and the 12th-13th forward on a good team. Do you agree with that?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I don't think Dorsett is an anchor the same way Sestito is an anchor, but I'd say he is an average-ish fourth liner and the 12th-13th forward on a good team. Do you agree with that?

Pretty much agreed. I think he brings a bit more than your average fourth liner and is a better skater than average but it's not a huge deal.

 

[pitseleh]

Derek Dorsett comparables from the past season...


Same Tier of scoring:
D. Brown, Spaling, Moore, Shaw, Beagle, King, McGuinn, Roussel, McClement
Legwand, Semin, Laich, Richards, Stajan, Smith-Pelly, Beck.

Same tier of total ice time:
Campbell, Bickell, Stajan, Fontaine, Beck, Weise, Haula, Gaustead, Downie

Dorsett on-ice shooting percentage was at Crosby/peak-Sedins level. That's not true talent.

His historical point totals have been inflated by the fact he was getting 12-13 minutes of ES ice time per game on crappy Columbus teams. In a normal year percentages-wise and playing normal fourth line ice time, he is an 8-12 point player.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Dorsett on-ice shooting percentage was at Crosby/peak-Sedins level. That's not true talent.

His historical point totals have been inflated by the fact he was getting 12-13 minutes of ES ice time per game on crappy Columbus teams. In a normal year percentages-wise and playing normal fourth line ice time, he is an 8-12 point player.

I'm sure the same is true with se
Of the players listed, some will have better luck next year, some worse.

 

[arsmaster*]

It's clear that people's problem with Dorsett is not the player himself but the price the team paid for him.

If Dorsett made under $1 million, most of the complaining would go away.

$1m/yr for the play, $100k per fight....$2.6m.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I hope we overpay for top quality character guys. I want this team oozing in compete, character and fight as we're rebuilding. If we've got to overpay to keep quality men in this organization so be it.

The opposite is true as well. If there exists a person who doesn't prepare well or doesn't commit to the game plan I hope we ditch him as fast as possible, even if we've got t give up a 5th round pick to do it!

 

[Scurr]

I don't think Dorsett is an anchor the same way Sestito is an anchor, but I'd say he is an average-ish fourth liner and the 12th-13th forward on a good team. Do you agree with that?

That sounds about right. That makes him one of the top players that fill his role. To me, paying Dorsett is an acknowledgement of how bad a player Sestito was. I'm glad they went and got him… I'm disappointed they're overpaying him.

 

[absolute garbage]

To me, paying 6 million to Miller is acknowledgement of how bad Cloutier was.

 

[Scurr]

To me, paying 6 million to Miller is acknowledgement of how bad Cloutier was.

If Miller followed Cloutier here -this would make a lot of sense. He didn't. It doesn't.


To me, paying 6 million to Miller is an acknowledgement of how poorly Lack finished the season as starter.

 

[arsmaster*]

If Miller followed Cloutier here -this would make a lot of sense. He didn't. It doesn't.


To me, paying 6 million to Miller is an acknowledgement of how poorly Lack finished the season as starter.

I don't think that's the case at all.

I think it signified that Benning wanted to come in and put his stamp on the team, no controversy....bag yourself a proven starter, and that's the end of the controversy. It didn't end the controversy...they dealt the younger better starter again.

 

[Ryp37]

If Miller followed Cloutier here -this would make a lot of sense. He didn't. It doesn't.


To me, paying 6 million to Miller is an acknowledgement of how poorly Lack finished the season as starter.

Or how bad Benning is at negotiating

When a player says he only wants to play on the west and your the only interested team this should be called leverage not "we signed our guy he's a real good calming veteran presence mentor character blah blah blah"

 

[absolute garbage]

The point was that it's completely irrelevant what Sestito was.

You don't overpay Dorsett because the previous fighter wasn't good. Ridiculous logic. Right there with some fans trying to justify Sbisa's contract as a good expansion draft "asset".

 

[Scurr]

The point was that it's completely irrelevant what Sestito was.

You don't overpay Dorsett because the previous fighter wasn't good. Ridiculous logic. Right there with some fans trying to justify Sbisa's contract as a good expansion draft "asset".

I don't think so. The string of "tough guys" that were really anchors for this team is pretty long. It speaks to how few of these guys can actually play.

 

[arsmaster*]

I don't think so. The string of "tough guys" that were really anchors for this team is pretty long. It speaks to how few of these guys can actually play.

Lapierre and Weise?

 

[me2]

If Miller followed Cloutier here -this would make a lot of sense. He didn't. It doesn't.


To me, paying 6 million to Miller is an acknowledgement of how poorly Lack finished the season as starter.

To me it is an acknowledgement that Benning recognises Miller as an elite goaltender.

 

[me2]

I hope we overpay for top quality character guys. I want this team oozing in compete, character and fight as we're rebuilding. If we've got to overpay to keep quality men in this organization so be it.

Long live Higgins. I hope we can bring him back at anything up $3.5m/y when he's finished the current contract. His character, mentoring and culture carrying ability will more than justify any ability deficiency.

 

[jigsaw99]

Pretty much agreed. I think he brings a bit more than your average fourth liner and is a better skater than average but it's not a huge deal.

his better skating is a trade -off of size. guy's too small and it showed in calgary series.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

his better skating is a trade -off of size. guy's too small and it showed in calgary series.

I think wear and tear from being played too much showed more than anything.

 

[timw33]

I don't think Dorsett is an anchor the same way Sestito is an anchor, but I'd say he is an average-ish fourth liner and the 12th-13th forward on a good team. Do you agree with that?

Sestito was a total play killer, Dorsett is like...fine...I guess...he doesn't provide an extra 1.6M/year of value over a replacement level $1MM 4th liner.

 

[vancityluongo]

Long live Higgins. I hope we can bring him back at anything up $3.5m/y when he's finished the current contract. His character, mentoring and culture carrying ability will more than justify any ability deficiency.

Pay him $6M/year, just not a DAMN NTC.