Derek Dorsett

[lousy]

Market value for a fourth line plug is 2.65 million per year at 4 years?

Kenins can do what Dorsett does but better except for the 17 useless fights. Kenins also makes 2 million less.

He got market value, sorry if you don't like the player or what he brings but that doesn't have much effect on his worth.

 

[canucksfan]

He got market value, sorry if you don't like the player or what he brings but that doesn't have much effect on his worth.

Explain how he got market value?

 

[a Fool]

Okay, not a hard negotiation can mean many things. Not just benning threw money at him. How about both parties wanted him to stay and were willing to accept market value?

And with the timing of the signing of Dorsett's contract, I say again who would have known the ufa market would be as it is. He might have cost more on the open market, hindsight is awesome. Don't drag sbisa's contract into this because that has no bearing on Dorsett.

Benning didn't need to sign those contracts. It was bizarre timing. Making decisions when you have more information is smart. I can't imaging worrying that a player like Dorsett would command more than 2.6M in any reality. Benning must have thought he was going to have a massive playoff performance.

Benning didn't need hindsight, he needed foresight. There were rumblings that the cap might not go up as much as everyone thought. Sure enough it didn't creating a suppressed market for bottom 6 players.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Because a team like Detroit that has 0 goons really had this problem of not being able to police the game.....

I take it you missed the Jordin Tootoo experiment in Detroit?

Ken Holland was willing to step up and pay a high price in free agency to add toughness that could skate on his 4th line. Probably was looking for it since Darren McCarty faded off into retirement.

 

[bossram]

He got market value, sorry if you don't like the player or what he brings but that doesn't have much effect on his worth.

I think the point people are trying to make though, is that even IF 2.65x4 is his market value, we should not have paid that because that price is not commensurate to the actual value he provides to the team.

The money would have been more usefully allocated elsewhere.

 

[WTG]

I take it you missed the Jordin Tootoo experiment in Detroit?

Ken Holland was willing to step up and pay a high price in free agency to add toughness that could skate on his 4th line. Probably was looking for it since Darren McCarty faded off into retirement.

Since 2010-11 they have been last 4 times in majors (2nd last in 2013-14)

How can a team like Detroit keep being good for so long if they don't have fighters >!<


Here's reality. You don't need to have fighters on your team to be successful.

They do not help with development (Detroit would know).

 

[lousy]

I think the point people are trying to make though, is that even IF 2.65x4 is his market value, we should not have paid that because that price is not commensurate to the actual value he provides to the team.

The money would have been more usefully allocated elsewhere.

That I can understand, but those claiming he did not get market value are out to lunch.

 

[DL44]

Since 2010-11 they have been last 4 times in majors (2nd last in 2013-14)

How can a team like Detroit keep being good for so long if they don't have fighters >!<


Here's reality. You don't need to have fighters on your team to be successful.

They do not help with development (Detroit would know).

Maybe Vancouvers wants to avoid having most of their star players chronically injured all the time...

Not sayin... Just sayin...

 

[WTG]

delete

 

[jigsaw99]

Maybe Vancouvers wants to avoid having most of their star players chronically injured all the time...

Not sayin... Just sayin...

yea Dorsett is not going to stop any team from taking runs at our stars....

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Since 2010-11 they have been last 4 times in majors (2nd last in 2013-14)

How can a team like Detroit keep being good for so long if they don't have fighters >!<


Here's reality. You don't need to have fighters on your team to be successful.

They do not help with development (Detroit would know).

So you did miss the Jordan Tootoo experiment then?

Guys like Tootoo/Prust/Dorsett are coveted because teams like having physicality in their lineup that can push back when the need arises. They don't garner good money because guys like Ken Holland don't understand the nuances of the game.

 

[WTG]

Detroit had about the same man games lost than us this season despite 24 less majors

 

[lousy]

yea Dorsett is not going to stop any team from taking runs at our stars....

Maybe, maybe not. He adds an element of toughness that the canucks really lack. At least there will be something done after a run is taken. Plus he can at least play and chip once in awhile, all while apparently providing leadership in the dressing room.

 

[jigsaw99]

Maybe, maybe not. He adds an element of toughness that the canucks really lack. At least there will be something done after a run is taken. Plus he can at least play and chip once in awhile, all while apparently providing leadership in the dressing room.

Yea he sure stopped Ferland... Canucks has one of the oldest lineup in NHL we don't need more leadership from Dorsett.

 

[DL44]

As long as someone doesn't Hanzal our team again without repercussion.. All's good.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

The value of having a guy answer the bell isn't to act as a deterrent, it's for team morale. There is nothing more demoralizing than having your team getting run all game long, smacked around and beat up - all while taking a verbal onslaught to go with it about what a bunch of chicken**** cowards you are. Throw in losing to that mix and you've got a horrible environment for the players.

If this team is on the verge of a Stanley cup, absolutely put a Dorsett in the press box if there are better players that can slide into his roster spot. But if you're a middling to poor club, you absolutely should have toughness on your roster to stick up for teammates and settle scores IMO. Because the difference between having a Dorsett or Mason Raymond on your 4th line is marginal. Won't change a thing in the grand scheme of your season.

 

[WTG]

The value of having a guy answer the bell isn't to act as a deterrent, it's for team morale. There is nothing more demoralizing than having your team getting run all game long, smacked around and beat up - all while taking a verbal onslaught to go with it about what a bunch of chicken**** cowards you are. Throw in losing to that mix and you've got a horrible environment for the players.

If this team is on the verge of a Stanley cup, absolutely put a Dorsett in the press box if there are better players that can slide into his roster spot. But if you're a middling to poor club, you absolutely should have toughness on your roster to stick up for teammates and settle scores IMO. Because the difference between having a Dorsett or Mason Raymond on your 4th line is marginal. Won't change a thing in the grand scheme of your season.

Yes that is why we have a losing record when Dorsett fights.......

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Yes that is why we have a losing record when Dorsett fights.......

Which has absolutely no relevance at all to anything I said.

If sticking up for one another means nothing, why all the clamouring for payback on Brad Marchand and Duncan Keith?

Payback would just be stupid right? It's not going to lead to wins.

You're completely overlooking team morale. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[lousy]

Yes that is why we have a losing record when Dorsett fights.......

You can't possibly believe those two things are related... can you?

 

[DL44]

Yes that is why we have a losing record when Dorsett fights.......

Were we losing when he fought?

 

[canucksfan]

That I can understand, but those claiming he did not get market value are out to lunch.

Explain how he got market value.

 

[WTG]

Which has absolutely no relevance at all to anything I said.

If sticking up for one another means nothing, why all the clamouring for payback on Brad Marchand and Duncan Keith?

Payback would just be stupid right? It's not going to lead to wins.

You're completely overlooking team morale. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

When does Keith ever fight a 4th liner?

We need players like Kassian who can fight and play rough that can actually play top 6 minutes.

You can't possibly believe those two things are related... can you?

Why do we even have a fighter if fighting doesn't do anything to make us win more?

If winning/injuries aren't related to fighting then why should we care about having fighters on the team at all?

Were we losing when he fought?

Not necessarily....

In fact there were times Dorsett fought when we were winning and then we lost.

 

[jigsaw99]

The value of having a guy answer the bell isn't to act as a deterrent, it's for team morale. There is nothing more demoralizing than having your team getting run all game long, smacked around and beat up - all while taking a verbal onslaught to go with it about what a bunch of chicken**** cowards you are. Throw in losing to that mix and you've got a horrible environment for the players.

If this team is on the verge of a Stanley cup, absolutely put a Dorsett in the press box if there are better players that can slide into his roster spot. But if you're a middling to poor club, you absolutely should have toughness on your roster to stick up for teammates and settle scores IMO. Because the difference between having a Dorsett or Mason Raymond on your 4th line is marginal. Won't change a thing in the grand scheme of your season.

problem is Dorsett didn't do that against Calgary in the playoffs.

also Mason Raymond > Dorsett in that series and made more impact.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

We need players like Kassian who can fight and play rough that can actually play top 6 minutes.

Uh, no. If fighting and physicality is pointless, like you say, we absolutely don't need guys like that in the top 6.

Just sign Mike Santorelli to upgrade Kassian on RW and we're laughing.

 

[WTG]

Uh, no. If fighting and physicality is pointless, like you say, we absolutely don't need guys like that in the top 6.

Just sign Mike Santorelli to upgrade Kassian on RW and we're laughing.

I said fighters are pointless

Not physicality.


If we are talking about policemen is Dorsett really going to keep the Sedins "save"? Or does Kassian play with the Sedins keep them more "save"?

It's what Don Cherry said "When Bieksa is on the ice with the Sedins they grow 2 inches". When Bieksa was good (I still think he's decent) this was completely true. He's a physical force that polices the other teams top players by not being afraid to fight them. Dorsett, however, isn't good enough to play in the top 9. So his "policing" is basically limited to the 4th line.


This is why I value a player like Kassian so highly while not valuing Dorsett at all.