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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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EK asking for market value is of zero consequence. If Melnyk isn't prepared to sign a 27 year old generational player to a fair contract, he has no business owning a team.

If he was prepared to pay, his mouthpiece Dorion could have just said that they would not be listening to offers until they had discussed contract with EK on July 1st.

The blame is 100% on Melnyk/Dorion for this shitshow.
 
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SAK11

Registered User
Oct 4, 2011
1,632
640
EK asking for market value is of zero consequence. If Melnyk isn't prepared to sign a 26 year old generational player to a fair contract, he has no business owning a team.

If he was prepared to pay, his mouthpiece Dorion could have just said that they would not be listening to offers until they had discussed contract with EK on July 1st.

The blame is 100% on Melnyk/Dorion for this ****show.

The one correction I'd make to what you said is that Karlsson is 27, soon to be 28, and will be 29 by the start of his next contract.

I do agree with what you posted, so long as Karlsson wants to play here. There is a chance that Dorion and Melnyk do indeed want him here and are willing to pay fair market value, but he has expressed to them that he wants to play elsewhere.
If that's the case then Dorion might not be lying when he says he'll offer Karlsson a contract, but he might also be aware that Karlsson has no intention of accepting it as he wants to move on from Ottawa. Maybe this seems unlikely, but it's a possibility nonetheless. If this was the case, Melnyk would still be blamed as he would be looked at as the big reason Karlsson doesn't want to be here.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
The one correction I'd make to what you said is that Karlsson is 27, soon to be 28, and will be 29 by the start of his next contract.

I do agree with what you posted, so long as Karlsson wants to play here. There is a chance that Dorion and Melnyk do indeed want him here and are willing to pay fair market value, but he has expressed to them that he wants to play elsewhere.
If that's the case then Dorion might not be lying when he says he'll offer Karlsson a contract, but he might also be aware that Karlsson has no intention of accepting it as he wants to move on from Ottawa. Maybe this seems unlikely, but it's a possibility nonetheless. If this was the case, Melnyk would still be blamed as he would be looked at as the big reason Karlsson doesn't want to be here.

Every public indication from EK is that he would be happy to be here at market value.
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
All I'm saying is that there were no rumblings or rumours about the remote possibility that EK65

Why don't you incorporate Kyle Turris and Julie Turris' comments into your timelines? Oh right, you're a disingenuous shill, and that wouldn't fit your gas lighting narrative.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,576
8,444
Victoria
Personally I think that when a player is slated to make that much money, budget or no, you have to be open to exploring all options.

I also think that we're in this weird place where we want authentic responses and detailed information about such things when convenient, but want stock responses and obfuscation when it's not. I don't really care about PD's comments, and I like that he's doing due diligence on all of our roster players before locking them up long term. The player's are professionals and aren't offended, fans not so much.

The player's know its the business side, and they like to consider all of their options as well, it's the fans that can't seem to emotionally deal with the business side unless it suits them.

Either EK will be traded in a hockey deal, or he'll be signed, either way we'll come out well.
 
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Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,472
7,441
So can you explain the logic to deliberately lie to STHs, when they're not renewing at the rate the Senators want them to?

How would you react, if you had renewed your ST, knowing that the Team was going to offer EK65 a contract on July 1st, and then go ahead and trade him at the Draft?

Would you call and cancel your STs, or buy some more?

Pierre Dorion also said in pre-season he was continuing to negotiate with Turris and felt he'd get a deal done. All the while he was shopping him. He said he wasn't shopping Phaneuf in the summer, he's gone.

Are you seriously this naive?
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,576
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Victoria
Pierre Dorion also said in pre-season he was continuing to negotiate with Turris and felt he'd get a deal done. All the while he was shopping him. He said he wasn't shopping Phaneuf in the summer, he's gone.

Are you seriously this naive?

Well, on the one hand you can definitely discuss trades for a player at the same time as negotiating contracts. It would be a prudent move if you have any doubt that a deal may get done, especially when you're looking at the start of the season getting closer. It is possible to feel like you can get a deal done, and then start to feel like one won't get done after negotiations progress. Also, you can be working at getting a deal done right up until the moment where you realize that you can get Duchene for real, at which time you do the trade. Turris may not have wanted to leave, but I don't see how the situation was handled poorly at all. No one would want to hear Dorian say that he was lukewarm about resigning Turris the whole time, and when he was finally able to get the better player that he wanted to sign, he couldn't do the trade fast enough.

Dion was traded at the TDL, so while he was clearly discussed with LA, it doesn't mean that it started in the summer. I would imagine that LA had made their interest known well before, and once the season was lost the conversation became more serious.

There is also a difference between listening to offers, having general conversations, and shopping a player. You can can admit to one while denying doing the other. I think "shopped" means that GMs are actively contacting other GM's to trade the player. There is a small but important distinction between trying to trade a player, and listening to offers and even negotiating said offers.

I think we can all agree that no player is untraceable if the right offer is made, and when dealing with top players, from a position of strength, you really can command the price it would take to move the player, and stick to it.
 
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SAK11

Registered User
Oct 4, 2011
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Every public indication from EK is that he would be happy to be here at market value.

Yep, but what I said was a possibility, too. We don't know what's going on behind closed doors. It's speculation at this point, we can't pretend to know everything.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
The player's know its the business side, and they like to consider all of their options as well, it's the fans that can't seem to emotionally deal with the business side unless it suits them.


A fan is trying to blame a player for the TEAM exploring trade options based on the player saying it is a business and he wants fair value.

Either EK will be traded in a hockey deal, or he'll be signed, either way we'll come out well.

It appears that the team was trying to add Ryan's contract to a potential Karlsson deal.
IN NO UNIVERSE IS THAT ANYTHING BUT A MONEY DEAL.
 

UnHappyDude

Fire Dorion
Jan 11, 2011
2,128
175
Honestly why the f*** would Karlsson want to play here? Shitty weather, shitty owner, shitty arena, shitty team, shitty front office, shitty taxes, shitty memories, shitty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this shithole.
 

DrakeAndJosh

Intangibles
Jun 19, 2010
11,863
1,781
Kanata
Honestly why the **** would Karlsson want to play here? ****ty weather, ****ty owner, ****ty arena, ****ty team, ****ty front office, ****ty taxes, ****ty memories, ****ty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this ****hole.
Beautiful city that treats him like a God where his wife is from and all her family lives. Remain the captain of the team he was drafted by, possibly lead them to a stanley cup, which we were one goal away from playing for last year. Strong core including Duchene, Stone, Chabot, Hoffman, Brown, and another elite prospect coming in two months. Literally the only reason not to stay is Melnyk being cheap or him wanting a personal or professional fresh start. But don't kid around, there's plenty of reasons to stick around.
 

UnHappyDude

Fire Dorion
Jan 11, 2011
2,128
175
Beautiful city that treats him like a God where his wife is from and all her family lives. Remain the captain of the team he was drafted by, possibly lead them to a stanley cup, which we were one goal away from playing for last year. Strong core including Duchene, Stone, Chabot, Hoffman, Brown, and another elite prospect coming in two months. Literally the only reason not to stay is Melnyk being cheap or him wanting a personal or professional fresh start. But don't kid around, there's plenty of reasons to stick around.
Bullshit. The core of this team is nothing special... And to add Brown?! Ok wait until he proves something he's played like 4 games and has a point. Other teams fans would treat him just the same as Ottawa fans. Beutiful city? Yeah it looks great for 4 months when it's not covered in ice. Look outside right now... Gorgeous. None of your points are anything he cant get elsewhere except his wife's family is here and she can just hop in a jet and be here in a few hours. This team is going nowhere why waste away here? Melny is the only reason?! He is the biggest f***ing reason! He effects everything to do with playing here!
 
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DrakeAndJosh

Intangibles
Jun 19, 2010
11,863
1,781
Kanata
Bull****. The core of this team is nothing special... And to add Brown?! Ok wait until he proves something he's played like 4 games and has a point. Other teams fans would treat him just the same as Ottawa fans. Beutiful city? Yeah it looks great for 4 months when it's not covered in ice. Look outside right now... Gorgeous. None of your points are anything he cant get elsewhere except his wife's family is here and she can just hop in a jet and be here in a few hours. This team is going nowhere why waste away here? Melny is the only reason?! He is the biggest ****ing reason! He effects everything to do with playing here!
Man why don't you move somewhere else and cheer for another team then? I'd hate to live life with your perspective.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
29,534
25,032
East Coast
Honestly why the **** would Karlsson want to play here? ****ty weather, ****ty owner, ****ty arena, ****ty team, ****ty front office, ****ty taxes, ****ty memories, ****ty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this ****hole.
This and the username is ironically awesome.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
TBH i didnt like how Doughty kinda called EK on the money thing either,but its not as if the owners dont do any coluding of their own
 

UnHappyDude

Fire Dorion
Jan 11, 2011
2,128
175
Man why don't you move somewhere else and cheer for another team then? I'd hate to live life with your perspective.

Bro, no need to get personal. It's just reality man take off your rose coloured glasses when looking at this team and it's state. I think it's unbelievably naive for people to think that Ottawa is such a great place to play hockey, what makes it so great you have yet to tell me 1 thing. Many better options for a generational talent then ottawa. Fans just think it's great because they are fans lol
 

Ray Kinsella

Registered User
Feb 13, 2018
2,105
955
Bull****. The core of this team is nothing special... And to add Brown?! Ok wait until he proves something he's played like 4 games and has a point. Other teams fans would treat him just the same as Ottawa fans. Beutiful city? Yeah it looks great for 4 months when it's not covered in ice. Look outside right now... Gorgeous. None of your points are anything he cant get elsewhere except his wife's family is here and she can just hop in a jet and be here in a few hours. This team is going nowhere why waste away here? Melny is the only reason?! He is the biggest ****ing reason! He effects everything to do with playing here!
Happy thoughts...
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,901
4,625
Bro, no need to get personal. It's just reality man take off your rose coloured glasses when looking at this team and it's state. I think it's unbelievably naive for people to think that Ottawa is such a great place to play hockey, what makes it so great you have yet to tell me 1 thing. Many better options for a generational talent then ottawa. Fans just think it's great because they are fans lol

There is more to life than hockey. Great place to raise a family. Safe. Adulation by fans and non-fans in a highly respectful and dignified way. It is actually very pretty. You don't have big city issues, and yet you are in a capital city of a country and all that goes along with it.

I'm sorry you think Ottawa is a shithole. No one can help you there, but the players like it here, much to your chagrin, and regardless of what many people think, they treat their players very well here. Karlsson needs time off? No problem, we have your back. Fisher treated the way he was. Sure, business does get in the way, as it does in many situations.

But Karlsson has stated whether he is playing hockey here or not, Ottawa will be his home.

Deal with it. :thumbu:
 

DrakeAndJosh

Intangibles
Jun 19, 2010
11,863
1,781
Kanata
Bro, no need to get personal. It's just reality man take off your rose coloured glasses when looking at this team and it's state. I think it's unbelievably naive for people to think that Ottawa is such a great place to play hockey, what makes it so great you have yet to tell me 1 thing. Many better options for a generational talent then ottawa. Fans just think it's great because they are fans lol
Didn't mean to get personal but don't really like reading people shit on my team and my city. I hate Melnyk as much as the next guy but I can at least see some positives in the team. My personal experience is people who think Ottawa is a shit hole haven't experienced much outside of it, I think Ottawa is a beautiful city with a lot of amazing things to do, any time of the year, and I'm lucky I get to call it home.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
Honestly why the **** would Karlsson want to play here? ****ty weather, ****ty owner, ****ty arena, ****ty team, ****ty front office, ****ty taxes, ****ty memories, ****ty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this ****hole.

We have a very big Ikea.
 
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Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,576
8,444
Victoria

A fan is trying to blame a player for the TEAM exploring trade options based on the player saying it is a business and he wants fair value.



It appears that the team was trying to add Ryan's contract to a potential Karlsson deal.
IN NO UNIVERSE IS THAT ANYTHING BUT A MONEY DEAL.

I'm not referring to anyone's post in particular.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
66,695
52,061
Honestly why the **** would Karlsson want to play here? ****ty weather, ****ty owner, ****ty arena, ****ty team, ****ty front office, ****ty taxes, ****ty memories, ****ty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this ****hole.
Highly recommended... Now available in the LCBOs around Ottawa
images
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,176
9,757
Honestly why the **** would Karlsson want to play here? ****ty weather, ****ty owner, ****ty arena, ****ty team, ****ty front office, ****ty taxes, ****ty memories, ****ty prospects of winning a cup. Are there any reasons other than inertia for Karlsson to sign here? No!

If I was him I would not want to sign here. The only reason I would is if Melnyk backed the brinks truck up to my house but even then I would take a pay cut to get out of this ****hole.

you don't seem so happy dude
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,176
9,757
EK asking for market value is of zero consequence. If Melnyk isn't prepared to sign a 27 year old generational player to a fair contract, he has no business owning a team.

If he was prepared to pay, his mouthpiece Dorion could have just said that they would not be listening to offers until they had discussed contract with EK on July 1st.

The blame is 100% on Melnyk/Dorion for this ****show.

the thing about signing guys at EK's age to 7 or 8 year deals is history shows they don't work out too well for the team. this team could have all the money in the world and I'd still wonder in a cap world if a "market" value deal is the right move. And I'd definitely explore what a trade might look like because it is part of due diligence
 

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