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Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
66,695
52,061
It had actually be an offer of such quality that it is legitimately impossible to refuse, then.

My worry is we're going to use Karlsson's trade equity to offload Ryan's contract and settle with an unimpressive return as a result.

Definitely have to weigh that possibility against the payroll...

Who knows wtf is going to happen with this shit show? What exactly are Dorion's marching orders from Melnyk..? What are the parameters Dorion has to work in?
Does Karlsson want to continue to be a part of it , whatever it is?
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
10,092
Parts Unknown
What exactly are Dorion's marching orders from Melnyk..? What are the parameters Dorion has to work in?

This is why I usually refer to management as "we" (as in, the Sens) instead of "Dorion".

Dorion certainly isn't an all-star GM, but to think that he's running this team with no strings attached is foolhardy.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
This is why I usually refer to management as "we" (as in, the Sens) instead of "Dorion".

Dorion certainly isn't an all-star GM, but to think that he's running this team with no strings attached is foolhardy.
When you tweet this out be sure to add a "LOL" so that we can have another "Pierre Dorion makes all the hockey decision" press conference from our GM.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
55,700
33,300
Why would he want to trade EK65?

If your answer is "to save money", then how much money will he save, in relationship to the amount lost due to declining tickets sales attributed to EK65s departure?

Assuming average ticket price of $55, + 10% for concession sales and parking, If Karlsson signs for 10-12 mil per year, trading him would have to be responsible for an average attendance drop of 4000-5000 tikets a game to break about even. I'm not sure even Karlsson could be resaonably expected to have that big of an impact on sales. The real impact would be loss of playoff revenues as our team without Karlsson is unlikely to qualify, but we aren't exactly playoff locks these days with him either.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
I hope he busts out the "Gretzky got traded" line again if EK does get moved, because I'm sure a lot of people remember the primary catalyst in that deal was that Peter Pocklington was broke and in desperate need of money.

If you run through an inflation calculator what Gretzky was "sold" for, it actually comes astoundingly close to the 30M USD remaining on Ryan's contract.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
Who is the closest equivalent to Jimmy Carson right now in the NHL?

2nd overall picked C, tied for 5th overall in scoring 2 years after being drafted.

Leon Draisaitl? He was a top 3 pick, 8th overall in scoring last year which was his 2nd full season.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
So from our side, it's....

Erik Karlsson (Wayne Gretzky)
JG Pageau (Mike Krushelnyski)
Mark Borowiecki (Marty McSorley)

from their side it's....

Taking Bobby Ryan (the money)
Leon Draisaitl (Jimmy Carsons?)
Jesse Puljujarvi (Martin Gelinas?)
2019 1st
2021 1st
2023 1st

Sounds like a perfectly productive main board thread that won't result in a flame war.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
1,610
Ottawa
I want to see Karlsson play every game of his career with the Sens.

IF they move him, I hope they tie Ryan to him and tank the value. That is the spark that leads to no more Melnyk.

That is the only light, if EK gets moved and he doesn't provide any proof that it was solely his personal doing and that the owner is really a great misunderstood dude, that would be the death null for most involved in the org imo
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
I think a solution, if it is in fact true that owners are trading players to lower payroll and pocket the difference, is that the NHL forces owners to put a down payment prior to each season equal to the salary cap.

If they don't use all of their funds on salaries it goes into a slush fund and is distributed amongst the teams equally.

The NHL removed the ability to trade cash to prevent the former, but it is clearly easy to get around, this would prevent that from occurring.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
55,700
33,300
I think a solution, if it is in fact true that owners are trading players to lower payroll and pocket the difference, is that the NHL forces owners to put a down payment prior to each season equal to the salary cap.

If they don't use all of their funds on salaries it goes into a slush fund and is distributed amongst the teams equally.

The NHL removed the ability to trade cash to prevent the former, but it is clearly easy to get around, this would prevent that from occurring.

Interesting idea. I'm sure the cap teams like Toronto would love to have Arizona subsidize them for a change...

Seriously though, a model like that could have some really interesting side effects on player salaries. A wide cap floor and cap ceiling gap would probably not work too, as there would be too much pressure on teams to spend to the cap.

I think it also could really messes with long term planing; if you've got ELC for star players coming to term, but you need to spend this year or lose the money, what do you do? Splurge on one year deals I guess... might inflate the 1 year deal market.

Edit: Also, down payment doesn't really work... maybe centralize payroll, have the teams make weekly payments to the NHL. Cap overall would have to drop, otherwise you might bankrupt Arizona and Florida. Get IBM to do the new payroll system, that will work well...
 
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Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
Interesting idea. I'm sure the cap teams like Toronto would love to have Arizona subsidize them for a change...

Seriously though, a model like that could have some really interesting side effects on player salaries. A wide cap floor and cap ceiling gap would probably not work too, as there would be too much pressure on teams to spend to the cap.

I think it also could really messes with long term planing; if you've got ELC for star players coming to term, but you need to spend this year or lose the money, what do you do? Splurge on one year deals I guess... might inflate the 1 year deal market.

Edit: Also, down payment doesn't really work... maybe centralize payroll, have the teams make weekly payments to the NHL. Cap overall would have to drop, otherwise you might bankrupt Arizona and Florida. Get IBM to do the new payroll system, that will work well...
They would need to retain the wide caps, as teams such as BUF who are clearly tanking, would just trade away players and take the cost as a "future performance" expense/investment.

It would certainly change the dynamics of the cap, no question, but for better or worst is the important question.

As for the specifics, whether it is a monthly installement or bi-weekly, the idea remains the same. The teams have the full cap expense regardless of their roster.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
8,248
1,965
Yes. Any Karlsson trade that isn't made because Erik asked for a trade, is a Melnyk decision.


We don't know what Karlsson has communicated to Senators management, but he's been talking quite a bit about his up coming possible extention, and it's not by accindent, just as picking up the puck was "nothing".

Drew Doughty started this whole ball rolling when he said ( in late November ) .............. “I know I’m going to talk to Karlsson back and forth, kind of see what money he’s looking for. I’ll kind of look at what money I’m looking for, I don’t know if he’s going to re-sign with Ottawa, I don’t know if I’ll re-sign with L.A. You just never know what’s going to happen.”

When Karlsson was asked the very next day (about the Doughty comments) he said
When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going, that’s the business part of it. That’s the way every player has been treated ever since this league has started, and I think the players have been a little bit on the other side of things when it comes to negotiations. I think it’s time to realize that when we go to the table, it’s business on both parts, not just (owners).” .... “I like it here, I’m comfortable here, I’ve been here my whole career, it’s something that I invested all my time in and something I would like to see all the way through. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if it’s not the right fit and it’s not going to work out business-wise, then you’re going to have to look elsewhere because that’s what (owners) are going to do, as well.

Was this "off the top of his head" or does it sound like he was sending a message to someone? Clearly he and Doughty have shared their thoughts with each other, and it has all the appearances of creating a market for themselves, or leverage with their respective teams.

It did not take long for the Toronto centrist sport media threw fuel on the fire, as they take any chance they get to create "issues" to report on, as if they're true, when
Nick Kypreos said on HNIC ... “And no question Eugene Melnyk did not like the fact that (Karlsson) came out publicly and said, ‘No discount,(Melnyk)’s going to have to pay top dollar to keep him and to Elliotte (Friedman’s) point, if Karlsson is going to watch half his team get traded from hereon in, does he even want to come back?

Please explain how in the heck would Nick Kypreos know what Eugene Melnyk's thoughts were on those comments??? He's guessing, and speculating.

If anything, we can only assume that Senators Management were not very pleased that impending contract talks, were talked about in the media, and I for one can understand if they were not happy that Karlsson appeared to be negotiating in the media.

Did he not know what he was doing? He's not a stupid person.

I suspect Senators management expressed to him how they felt about the issue, as Karlsson seemed to be trying to douse the flames of the rumour mill when he spoke to Arash Madani. ...

I don’t really know why I spoke out about it. It’s not something that’s been on my mind. I love it here in Ottawa, it’s never, ever crossed my mind that I ever want to leave here or go somewhere else. That’s not something I’ve ever considered. That they spun it that way, that’s the way it is.”

It’s all about winning. I want to be on a – I’ve been here for nine seasons. I’ve invested my entire career into this organization. They’ve given me everything that I feel like I need to succeed. I think we’re moving in the right direction. This is the place I want to win with. I want to win in Ottawa. That’s where I’ll always be. It’s going to be my home, no matter where I end up playing when I get older, if that ever happens. So that’s the thing: I want to be where home is. I’m comfortable at home, I like it at home and Ottawa is home. Not only the organization, but the community and all my friends as well. That’s something that’s very important to me. Then, all the other stuff, they will just follow
.”


 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
If anything, we can only assume that Senators Management were not very pleased
Please explain how in the heck would Count Dracula know what Senators Management's thoughts were on those comments??? He's guessing, and speculating.

You're certifiably a hypocrite, congratulations.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
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You know, your cherrypicking of quotes and selective memory is getting awfully tiresome.

Well perhaps you can set the timeline straight ....... as the whole "Karlsson fair market value here or somewhere else" was not started by Senators management, as far as I know .......... but if you have something to show that it was started elsewhere, by someone else, I gladly read it and correct my recollection of this issue.........
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
8,248
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Please explain how in the heck would Count Dracula know what Senators Management's thoughts were on those comments??? He's guessing, and speculating.

You're certifiably a hypocrite, congratulations.

Yes, but I say "I assume" I don't say "I know" like the panelists on HNIC did.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
8,248
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Please quote where Kypreos said the words "I know" as you claim.

Oh sorry, I forgot your ellipsis : ".............................."

Sorry, he said "no question" .............. my bad.


But the point being is that Karlsson spoke about "fair market value" in Ottawa of elsewhere BEFORE Senators management did............... as best as I can remember, please feel free to correct me if you can.
 

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