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mas0764 said:
The prospect pool ISN'T in the top third of the league, it's closer to the bottom third at this point. And the "bleeding to stop," is that it's short numerous young top 6 forwards that it needs to be a true Cup contender both now and long term.

This will all be more apparent once we don't win a Cup this year and are short all those picks we gave away and we are no closer to competing against the Hurricanes and Avalanche of the world.

Too many people here think that you build into a mediocre playoff team and the job is done and rely on luck. Those types of teams rarely win. We don't measure up against the best of the best yet and never will at this rate.
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OMG we won't win the cup. Neither will 31 other teams. They are still on pace for 110 points and will make the playoffs. Thats the first step and they absolutely got better at the deadline. Losing a 2nd and a 4th this year and next is not the end of the world. Most people look at this deadline and say "wow, we just got 4 NHL bodies that are going to really help and didn't give up any top prospects". You choose to lament on the mid round picks that they lost. About the prospect pool, you are basing your opinion on one ranking. Of course, its the lowest ranking out there. There are way more that still have them ranked top 3rd in the league. Kravs, Lundkvist, Jones, Robertson, Othmann, Berard, Cuylle, is not bottom 3rd. Thats laughable. The rebuild is over. The build continues.
 
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mas0764 said:
When they re-sign him to a reasonable long term deal that fits as a third line center, that will take some of the sting off. But that remains to be seen. If he's signed to be the 2C, that's not necessarily giving you a talent edge over other playoff teams. You are actually behind the 8 ball if Copp is your 2C. He's a plus 3C, not a plus 2C.

The talent I'm saying we need still is not "over the top."

Cup winners, especially multiple Cup winners, have second line or even first line talent playing on their third line. We have AHLers on our third line.

We have a ways to go to get even close at forward.



We aren't winning the Cup this year anyway. Our window opens as Kakko, Laf, and Fox hit their primes. It needs supplementing with a couple more young forwards and cross your fingers that Panarin and Zibanejad stay elite. Panarin should. We'll see about Zibanejad. Kreider is not going to be a top line winger when this team wins a Cup.



I only "hate," Drury because of his failure on this issue. If he wasn't whiffing here, I'd love him.



That's not what we are debating. I'm more or less fine with that payment for Copp. I don't/won't really miss Barron.

But it is a heavy price. One of those seconds could be a first. And even if you aren't getting home run NHLers those picks are needed for future trades too. The more you pay now, the less you will have for later when we hope to be a contender with Kakko and Laf and Fox.

And then there's the picks for Braun and Motte and Vatrano too. We've wiped out our mid-round picks the next year or two. That's gonna leave a hole on a team that already needed to replenish it's forward depth in the system and is starting out shorthanded with it's NHL forward group (ie, we are icing 5 AHLers every night). If we don't re-sign Vatrano, Copp and Motte, we are right back to that, and guess what? We have no real cap space to re-sign those guys next year, so we are likely right back where we started with our depth chart next season. Playing AHLers who aren't ready or who never will be ready.

But again, that expenditure is survivable. Paying Nils and multiple firsts for rentals who walk is not. Thank goodness we smartly avoided that.

I thus gave Drury a B.

But I am not going to pretend the future issue doesn't exist. It does.



Sure, and I think I've said, I like the Copp acquisition. He, Vatrano, and Motte, along with the return of Kakko, are going to make this a more complete team to watch this year. We won't be watching AHL trash that can't play every night anymore.

That's great news for this season.

We still remain long shots to win, but it will make (hopefully) for a team that doesn't get caved every night anymore.

This will be fun.

But the work continues.

My point is that there is serious building that needs to be done and the options for doing so are beginning to dwindle. Ok, so let's say Nils and a first (lol, if Winnipeg doesn't get that first) are traded for a young center like, I dunno, throwing out a name, Wyatt Johnston.

Still need probably another young center like Holloway and either Kravtsov or another young wing in the sytem. Then I'll feel better.
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Well, reading this, I get a different feel than I did from earlier posts, I don’t think we disagree as much as we agree, so I will assume I initially “misread” you and leave it at that.
 
Again I think the way to make everyone happy is to look this summer at ways we can get back some of the assets we have dealt over the past week.

Mid round picks have been being exchanged like candy and for good reason- 4th and 5th round picks aren't that valuable or difficult to attain.

If they decide to go with Copp on an extension, Chytil is probably worth a 2nd round pick on the market. Kravtsov is too. Georgiev and Strome's UFA rights might get you a couple 6th rounders. Hajek for a 7th. NYR might have to cough up an asset to move Nemeth without retention.

Next season there is still room for Blais here. Not a concern for me. Either one of Vatrano or Motte will be kept, but almost certainly not both.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kakko
Blais-Goodrow-Motte
Cuylle-Rooney-Reaves

I disagree with those saying Copp can't be a 2C on a cup contender. On a team like ours, built around scoring wingers and a solid blue line, having Copp-Goodrow as the 2-3 is actually just fine. Defensively responsible. Chips in on offense at a reasonable level.
 
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Copp as the 3C or on Breads wing this season till Kakko is back. Next season Strome is gone and we use our assets to get a good young 2C.
 
We can argue a bit about the return for Copp but I believe the moves were really shrewd.

Copp and Motte are not one trick ponies. Both can move around the lineup a bit like Goody. Now, Motte shouldn't really move up to the top 6 per se, though I could see him take some shifts with Strome/Panarin, but he can move around to different forward positions on that bottom 6. Copp can play anywhere in the lineup. Can take big draws. Vatrano can move around. I don't know about Braun but I know he said he plays both sides. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But it really opens up options, especially in the playofffs.

The biggest thing these guys do, is they make Gauthier come out of the lineup. I like Gauthier, but he really doesn't have any versatility. He's a straight line winger who is meh defensively and tunnel vision offensively. By adding Copp, Motte and Vatrano, we now can move guys around. We can have 2 centers out for every D zone draw in the third period (Zib, Strome, Motte, Copp, Goody, Chytil (and Kreider too).

I am glad we stayed away from Rakell and got Copp instead. Copp is such a better fit for this team if he stays healthy. Copp either slots into the top 6 with Panarin/Strome or he becomes 3C and Chytil moves to the wing. Motte can center a bottom 6 line, but also play wing. And both Copp and Motte can play in many situations. Copp also gives us a net front presence on PP2.

PP2 - Copp, Laffy, Troubs, Chytil, Vatrano (and Kakko subs in for Chytil or Vatrano when back). That's not so bad.

Now... imagine our aces will include Rooney, McKegg, Brodzinski and Gauthier and if we can get Kravtsov to come over after his playoffs are done. That could really help our depth even more come playoffs.

Plus, with these acquisitions, team D in front of Shesty should get a little better after they get used to each other. Let's hope...
 
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bhamill said:
I read his ASK was 5million per at 4years, and Winnipeg didn’t want to. His ask in NY may be different. Guess we will see.
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Thats an absolutely fine ask for us if he's our 2c. I'd like maybe one more year on that, but considering that its slightly more than strome right now, and also prevents us from re-signing strome.
It gives us time to develop more centers without blowing through all our prospects and other teams having insane leverage.

The 4-5 year range is also that window where it'll hopefully transition from Mika/Panarin being the focal points of the team to Laf/KK being the focal points.
 
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RangerBoy said:
Who? Which player? Which assets?
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Who is certainly an open question, especially since the high end prospect-for-prospect deals some of this board is clamoring for almost never happen. But we do have the assets, such as future first round picks, Lundkvist, Jones, Othmann, Robertson, etc.
 
GAGLine said:
We didn't toss away anything. Do you really believe that Barron and 2 2nd round picks are going to be the difference between whether or not we win a cup in the future?
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We aren't arguing the Copp trade. I've said repeatedly I'm more or less fine with that. I gave Drury a B for the deadline.
 
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